Karaoke Forums

Ok, I saw something a month or two ago but don't remember where or who made it.
I don't recall if it was a stand alone effects processor or a mixer with FX... The cool thing about it was that it had automatic settings for certain types of music... Like a setting that was named something for 50's music, etc.  Anybody seen or know which one I am talking about?  I am considering upgrading my vocal effects. (Currently using the built in effects on my Yamaha Mixer) ~ D.J.

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~ D.J. ~
Dothan, AL 36301

My Rig:

- Shure PGX/SM58 Wireless mics (4)
- Yamaha MG-16 6 FX Mixer
- Behringer EP2500 Power Amp
- DBX 266XL Comp/Gate
- JBL MPro 15" Speakers (x2)
- Behringer 15" Powered monitor
- Compaq Laptop
- Furman Rack light
- Furman Power Conditioner

I think the Yamaha effects are pretty good, but I like my external effects processor. I recommend two pieces based on your current setup -- an equalizer and a Lexicon MX200. I run the FX send from my mixer through an EQ channel and roll off the frequencies below 3KHz. This adds clarity -- effects applied to low frequency input  sound muddy. (You could use a second eq channel for your monitor, which might be nice to increase intelligibility to the singer.)

As far as the mapping of music genre to effect, it isn't as simple as "50's music". That being said, I would love to see some mappings of effect type to song:

  "That'll Be The Day" -- Slapback reverb
  "Lady" by Journey -- Large hall (lots)
  Most traditional country -- Plate
  "Green Tambourine" -- Long delay
  etc.

The Lexicon MX200 has some presets where they tell you whether it is suitable for ballads, old-style rock, etc. I use the Big Pop Vocal, Nashville, Retroverb, La-La Land, and Big Easy presets as my main 5. I use the large hall reverb (La-La) only for songs like Journey's "Lady" and others that want that "sing in a well" sound. I hate it when the KJ uses that effect on every song, as it makes everyone's voice sound the same. I like to hear voices....

Yeah, I think the Yamaha FX are pretty good...especially for karaoke.  I just like new toys and remember seeing that one that I posted originally about.  That Lexicon sounds pretty neat also, and of course you can never go wrong with Lexicon effects from my experience.  I realize that the whole generic "50s music" setting thing wouldn't always be perfect, and would still require tweaking, but I think it would be a fun toy to play with... I wish I remember where I found it...

Thanks for the reply!

_________________
~ D.J. ~
Dothan, AL 36301

My Rig:

- Shure PGX/SM58 Wireless mics (4)
- Yamaha MG-16 6 FX Mixer
- Behringer EP2500 Power Amp
- DBX 266XL Comp/Gate
- JBL MPro 15" Speakers (x2)
- Behringer 15" Powered monitor
- Compaq Laptop
- Furman Rack light
- Furman Power Conditioner

That is a really great idea!  

Do you know what effects would be appropriate for the intro to "Iron Man" by Black Sabbath?

--Tad

I don't know if this is what you were talking about.

I have a couple of unique effect boxes.

For reverb I have a TC Electronics M300. This is a studio peice, with very natural sounding reverbs

I also have a TC Helicon Voice One vocal modeling box. This unit allows for you to add very natural effects to the voice, such as, Vibrato, Breath, Growl/Rasp, Inflection, Spectral and Resonance. You can sound like Joe Cocker without ripping your voice to hell.

It also has pitch correction and harmony. If someone is really off key, you can bring them on key electronically. The harmony feature doesn't work in real time without a delay. They have real time harmony boxes also.

The effects can be subtle to dramatic. Adding a little breath and growl gives a fantastic rock sound. A little resonance for Frank and Dean improves the overall quality of the sound. Or, if you go wild with it, you can get bottom and drop the pitch for Barry White. It will make a woman sound like a man, or a man sound like a woman.

It uses your own voice and processes it in real time, so it does not sound unatural.

It has hundreds of presets for different vocal styles and types of music as well. You can also build your own and store them.

It's a lot of fun, but most times I only use a very low setting, to add just a bit of effect.

This is quite unique for Karaoke. I have never seen anyone else using something like this.

These are the best FX boxes I have seen.

http://proaudiomusic.com/misc/effects/t ... armony.htm

http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikm ... /M300.html

edit

http://proaudiomusic.com/misc/effects/t ... armony.htm

"This item is no longer available."  Argggg - I was all set to order one of those harmonizers! Not available through that company but maybe if I'm lucky....

bummer.

k

Karen,

They have been replaced by new models. Check the TC Helicon website.

http://www.tc-helicon.tc/VoiceWorks

Also, if you have a pro audio gear retailer in your area, talk to them. Some have them set up where you can check them out. You will be amazed. They sell both TC Helicon and TC Electronics at Guitar Center, but you'll pay more and get no technical expertise.

Here's one on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TC-Helicon-Voice-Wo ... dZViewItem

Hey, thanks for the info. Fun to have stuff others don't have. We've been talking about doing this for quite some time but seems like there are always other things we need/want first....Like I'm putting a lot of my passive equip on CL this week to pick up a couple of new SM450s. Have a couple of Peavey 15" speakers with matching subs and an amp to power it...will put it on there today. Just sitting in the garage.

I'll watch that on Ebay and see what happens. They are quite a price new - I spent some time reading about them yesterday (instead of doing my work *#&$(@*#&)  Pitch corrector would be nice to have...have you used that feature for karaoke shows?

k

I have the voiceworks, and you have to set the key to get correction. It is not convient to use. But they do have TC-Helicon-VoiceTone-Correct its about $250 and it works without setting the key. I have one and it works good, and is seemless to use.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

I had a host use the pitch correction feature without telling me. I was singing, and hearing myself from the mains (Bose L1), and I couldn't figure out what whas going on, but I could tell the difference. My wife said I sounded good, but I felt lost up there.

Finally I figured out what was going on and asked him to disable it. I later learned that you typically don't use this live if the singer can hear the mains at all....

Most people I wouldn't even try and pitch correct because that doesn't seem to be an issue with most of our singers. Having been privy to discussions by a lot of studio musicians in Nashville, it is common knowledge that ALMOST EVERYONE  uses pitch correctors now, and a few well known and very successful singers in particular. Joke was a lot of those well paid artists are not permitted to EVER sing live ... they are lip syncing their own stuff...which of course is what happens most of the time. I did have the opportunity to listen to John Berry once, sitting on a bench strumming an acoustic and the man has amazing pitch. For some reason his singing stands out in my mind, and that was years and years ago.

Getting back to karaoke, though - I am amazed at the number of people who do NOT offer vocal effects on their systems. Very few people sing well enough to sound good dry.  You know your effects are done right when people walk away, shaking their heads, saying, "Man, I sound good on this system. How come I don't sound like this on "so-and-so's" system."  There ya go. Such an important part of the whole show in my mind.

k

NOBODY sounds their best dry. Even people who sound good don't sound as good as they can. Everyone has small defects in their tone that disappear with just a bit of room reverb.

Depending on the room and speaker placement, you can get some natural reverb that makes an effectless setup sound OK. But if the singer hears a completely dry feed from the monitor without any reverb, it will usually make them sing worse because they hear the small defects in their voice. Even if you know what is happening, it works on your head and confidence.

Here is a link to the new TC Helicon foot operated pedals. There are several of them that do different things. The link also has Demos of the units.

Just select "Products" and then look under Voice Tone

The Main TC Helicon page           http://www.tc-helicon.com/

All of their products are on this page if your curious on what else they produce

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Like Elvis said, you do have to set the key to pitch correct. The TC Helicon correction is very good, if you know the key. It doesn't throw singers off if you know how to use it. I don't use it most of the time, because I have to know ahead of time in order to get it set correctly. I rarely add an effect after a song is started, with the exception of reverb.

The price on Ebay is actually pretty cheap. These units used to be a couple of thousand dollars. I remember when the Voice Prism came out it was $2400. I paid $600 for my Voice One used. I thought that was a pretty good deal.

The only problem I have with TC is they don't have one box for use live with all of the effects. Voice Works is the closest, but I don't think it has the breath, growl and resonance, which I use all the time.

It's a little tricky to figure out how to set the features and make your own presets. I have a bunch of them that I made for songs I sing, and a lot of my regulars like to use them too.

It's a fabulous FX box, if you use it correctly. I've found that the effects only need to be subtle to really sound good. TC teaches that in their seminars. Most people want to add too much. It's just like reverb, too much sounds bad.