Karaoke Forums

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I am not sure as to what karaoke's original intent (if any) was.  However, it seems to me that when karaoke really started to gain a following, it brought people together who had a central thing in common; they loved to sing.  Some people just did it for fun and others did it to perhaps get discovered by that local band looking for a new lead singer.  I have also seen many friendships formed through a mutual love of karaoke.  Now it seems that even when you do go into an establishment that has karaoke, the KJ is playing a 2:1 ratio of dance music to karaoke and when people do sing, the applause in many cases is 90% for the song and 10% for the actual singer. Sometimes it is always only for the song.  Have any of you noticed anything similar to what I am talking about?

working just fine for me.... met my fiance that way!

Interesting question, and I'm going to take a slightly different angle on it since I've been pondering this as well.   When I think of karaoke, I think of the first times I went singing.  My first song was Friends in Low Places.   There was hardly anyone in the bar.   The KJ was glad I was there.  And my hand holding the mic was "shaking like a leaf on a tree."   It took a long time for me to get rid of the jitters, and they resurfaced any time I went to a new place to sing (they still do to a certain extent).  Oh yeah, and the version of FILP was the long version I'd never heard before.  I got to what I thought was the end of the song, saw all the additional spoken text, was really puzzled, so I sat down.   I wasn't familiar/polished enough to even try and fake my way through it.

A few days later, I went to the same place and sang Rubberband Man.  Actually I tried to sing it.  The song has a lot of ad-lib type lyrics that I totally messed up.  Halfway through the song I was thinking "I can't believe I picked this song.  It is so tough.  I thought I knew it!"

The point is, when I look at my initial many months of karaoke singing, it was pretty amateurish.   But...that is what, in my opinion, karaoke should be about.  There should be alot of room for the amateur.  I would think, in fact, that if you went to a karaoke show on any given night, you would see alot of new people trying it out, people flubbing up on singing (because karaoke is always more difficult than you first think), people attempting songs that are way out of their range, etc etc.  I would think there would be veterans kamakaze-ing songs and maybe sounding like they were a little out of their element.  And I would think that the crowd and KJ would be sympathetic to this sort of newness and adventurism, because after all, that is how we learn, and none of us are getting paid to sing karaoke.  "Life's a dance you learn as you go..." so says the song.

But in reality, I don't see alot of this, which makes me wonder if there is less room, less welcoming, for the beginner.   Are people afraid to try karaoke because they think that you have to be able to nail a song before (heaven forbid it) you sing it in a bar?

Looking back on how nervous I was when I started singing I think, heck, anyone brave enough to get up there and sing deserves alot of applause no matter what song they are singing.

How many people try karaoke once, and then never try it again?  Does the beginner get crowded out and marginalized by the veteran?

[font=verdana] Something I have noticed in our shows, is singers that have become regulars to the show, and may have struggled with songs the first few times, are now getting much better and more comfortable with it.  I know, my repertoire used to be pretty much limited to Patsy Cline.  Since having my set up in my living room, and able to rehearse at least an hour a day, usually more, I can see a lot of improvement in my singing.  I just wish I knew some trick to widen my vocal range, that is still pretty limited.  I'm not sure what the original intent was, other than a way for people to get together and have a good time singing.[/font]

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It must just be in the States. I don't play music in between singers because it means less people to get up.
The object of karaoke is to get up as many people as possible.
Also I try to do different things like a duet night or 70's themed night so as to keep my regular singers on their toes.
They all enter into it in the fun that it is intended.
Who knows sometimes they find songs that they didn't think of or thought they couldn't do.
Karaoke is about having fun everyone is an amatuer although we do have some singers that have sung professionally, but they take part just like everyone else.

I simply don't patronize shows that do one DJ song then one karaoke song. The first time I go is the last time.

As for intent, ask the Japanese. It isn't about people wanting to be seen and discovered, I can tell you that right now....

The only time a host should play music is if there are no singers. IMO it's either a Karaoke show or a DJ show. If it's Karaoke and there are people there that want to sing then they better get those people up and singing or they'll leave and I don't blame them. I went to a show like that and I won't go back.

It's what you make of it. Some places have a good host and they make people feel comfortable and welcome, they encourage people, they encourage participation. Some places the host is a jerk and I just don't go back to those places. Some bars the patrons are riff raff and I don't feel that comfortable with that so I don't go back to them anymore. Everyone has their preferences and what they like. Go to the places that make you feel comfortable and that you enjoy being at. Simple as that.

If more singers would rebel against the DJ/KJs it wouldn't happen.    Stop supporting bars that have them and tell the bar owners why you won't be spending your money there.

Karaoke always was and always should be about the singers.

Singers are getting pushed to the back burner and non singers that want to dance are taking over.  But i blame this totally on the KJ.  They started it and they can stop it.

Non-stop contests were the death knell, too. A lot of people will only frequent places that have contests. Once the contest is done, the place is empty. Can't keep depending on contests to fill a place up.

I am the opposite -- if it is a contest night, I leave. I have seen some in operation, and they are always hokie beyond belief. The best singer has not won once that I have seen.

The only decent contest I have ever seen is a once-a-week one song contest that is judged by the KJ. He picks the best singer without favoritism, and the prize is very small. It takes one round, and is not obtrusive or annoying.

Brad, I can't tell you what the original intent was behind the creation of Karaoke anymore than I can tell you what the original intent was behind the creation of television, other than to consider it was meant to be a form of entertainment.  And, please note, along with TV entertainment comes TV commercials.  So, TV is not usually pure entertainment!  

More specifically, I would imagine, you're pondering how the "creators" of Karaoke expected their invention would be used.  If I had to guess, I'd say they envisioned a bunch of friends heading to a Karaoke venue, with some participating and some observing.  And if I am correct about that, the group of friends would encourage/egg one another onward to deliver a great performance and/or to make a jackass of themselves, either way, in the name of having fun.

The original shows relied on cassette tapes.  IMO, the introduction of CDG's opened up the opportunity for more widespread participation in karaoke.  If nothing else, the CDG provides a chance to put in a more appealing performance, particularly by people who were less familiar with the material.  The singer clearly sees what lyrics are up next and gets an indication of the timing of those lyrics.  Just think about how many times you have had someone sing and they are completely off from the swipes, even when the swipes are 100%, a-ok?  Now imagine the very same person singing from a lyric's sheet. Not a pretty picture.

Now consider this:
 

The preceding opinion appears in virtually every thread after its creator reinterprets each thread to match his needs to perpetuate his personal crusade regarding this topic.  Why? I don't know the answer to this question either, Brad.

But would everyone please note that in the opinion of the aforementioned individual, a show is either a karaoke show or a DJ show.  I guess there are no "in-betweens" and no other types of shows for this individual?

IMO, sometimes a show has to be more than karaoke, particularly when THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SINGERS!!!!   And, actually, the aforementioned quote agrees with my observation:   What a brilliant idea!

However, we've also learned from this person's previous preaching, if he doesn't play music (DJ), he can sing Karaoke all night, if need be.  Now IMHO, if the host is a singer of karaoke all night, or a good deal of the night, that show is far afield from what the creators of karaoke envisioned. But that's just my guess.  Subtle, wasn't that?  I'll say it again, if I go to a venue that advertises karaoke and all I find is the host singing Karaoke, is that really Karaoke?

No, I say in response. Karaoke is the inclusion of the audience in the singing!  So, while our friend preaches to us about what karaoke IS and can tell us what we shouldn't do, so long as he does it, IT IS STILL KARAOKE, it is still alright.  Got it??  If you do something different than he does, than you're a hack!!! (I remember that word, "hack", from the old dog-day afternoons)

So, in conclusion, like TV which isn't 100% entertainment, sometimes a "karaoke" show isn't 100% karaoke!!!

Eric, it's interesting that you mention karaoke cassette tapes.  I've still got a few.  :D  For a while, I was playing the piano at a nursing home once a month, and sometimes I'd sing if I had a song prepared.  I had a karaoke machine (cassette).  But it wore out eventually--possibly because I also used it to make copies of my cassettes!  I actually used it more for that than for singing!

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I have to agree once again with Mickey Mouse. I haven't seen a fair contest yet. I see some bad singers getting prizes because they're regulars and spend money at the bar. I don't think contests are a good thing unless it's fairly judged and promoted properly. If it's a regular thing you need to have some rules so the same great singers aren't winning every week, this discourages participation by other singers. Contests aren't for every bar and need to be handled carefully IMO. I left a place once because of what I described above and I never went back. How is that good for business?

Stogie, I don't do the contests either.  I don't want to feel like the pressure is on.  Plus, if you're waiting to sing but not wanting to be in the contest--it can be a looooonnnnnng wait!  

Also, most karaoke contests last for a number of weeks, and I can't commit to that.  There are some weeks that I get to go out singing a lot (like this week), but sometimes I don't get to go for a few months.  I tend to be more of a spur-of-the-moment karaoke person--let's see, the kiddo is spending the night at Grandma's tonight; I have the night free to myself--do I feel like singing?  Sometimes the answer is "Nah," and I stay home and relax.    Sometimes the answer is "Yeah!"  OK, in that case, which places have karaoke tonight, and which one do I feel like going to?

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Quote:
The only time a host should play music is if there are no singers  

Please credit the correct person when picking out quotes and spouting off.


Just what would the magic number of singers be before it is considered enough to be a "karaoke" night?

Is 3 singers enough?

5 singers?  

7 singers?

20 singers?

50 singers?


Not enough singers = DJ night, sorry loyal singers.     Since all 75 singers can't arrive at once when it's time to start, you're screwed.

There will be no such thing as singing more than once an hour.  :no:    No extra singing because you came early to show your support.    It's illegal, i have to play DJ music until there are enough singers, because it's not about the singers, it's about something/anything else.

Actually the cdg & Laserdisc came out about the same time.  It seems from talking with people on the forums for years that DK cdg came out more on the East coast & Pioneer Laser came out on the West coast about the same time which is why you get alot of DK is better or Pioneer is better debates.



Both formats gave the sense of timing which is why the cassette format died quickly after.  My first experience was from cassette as well in 89, you HAD to rely SOLELY on your memory of the song, there was no lyric swipes.



Which is why I will go in the audience if I don't have any singers & try to encourage them to get up singing.  9 out of 10 times I can get a rotation going within a couple songs.  If you are there to sing & are the onl;y singer, you are going to sing! 



I will actively seek singers, but if I don't get any I will play music & continue to find singers - as per the bar contract.  I am not strictly karaoke, but that is my number one priority & maybe a cumilative 1 week out of the year we play regular music.  If you are there to sing, then you will sing - every song if you want, or I MAY interject a song in between while you pick your next song.



Exactly!



To me karaoke is about getting singers up, not about the host filling the place of the singer.  If you don't have any singers, by all means sing a couple, but then get out in the crowd & encourage the people out there to sing, it's about the audience singing, not the host!  If no one in the audience WANTS to sing - well then you have a problem & the bar should look at why karaoke isn't working & the host is singing instead of their paying crowd.

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So I will just say, this is why I don't post in this forum very often . THat being said there are no surprises at my show..I bill myself as Karaoke/DJ. I have a steady group of regulars who come to my show knowing I will play music in between karaoke sets. THey also know if I have alot of singers there will be very litle DJ music. I work in small towns..very small. There are Kj's in my area that are considered "pure" karaoke...but instead of DJ music they sing in between sets...I personally would rather here 3-4 Dj songs than here a KJ sing all night. Most of these also take a "break" like a band and then play 15-20 minutes of "filler" music . I have been lucky enough to have a few nights where I had enough singers to play litle to no DJ music, but it is a rare occurance in my area. For those who live in areas where you have enough singers to play no music it is great, but in some areas it doesn't work.I just wish some would realize that what works for you may not work in all areas.

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Joy,

I must have to agree.  I am happy/proud to bill myself as a KJ/DJ...for "any" occasion!  Several of the places (bars) I have worked at......Oh, you do karaoke...we don't want that!  I have to push the issue, then have to sell myself on other things.  I like to intorduce or re-introduce karaoke to places that are "against" it and prove to them...that guess what, it can work..with a good host/good equiment/good selection.   Huh, karaoke isn't so bad after all.  I'll shout it out from the mountain tops, I provide a 'mixed' show, if you do not like that...by all means.....you better go somewhere else. IMHO, the whole trick is to be able to change/adapt to the crowd, to the environment around you and please as many of the customers as you can....w/o tinkling off the whole crowd.  That's were you will be successful.  Entertainment, that's what I provide...a little "different" bit for everyone!  MrD

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People can do what they want of course -- just like I do when I refuse to go back to a DJ/Karaoke show. I am simply not interested in listening to recorded music being played.

I do note that I don't see long term DJ/Karaoke shows. Perhaps they exist, but not in my area. Every time I have seen one appear, it disappears shortly thereafter. Some karaoke gigs, on the other hand, last years.

Again I agree with you Mickey. When I go somewhere where they represent it to be a Karaoke night, I expect Karaoke. If no one wants to sing, then of course, play music. You can't have people sitting in silence, it's common sense.

I also said if there are people that want to sing they should be up singing all night until you run out of singers. Why would anyone have a problem with that if it's a Karaoke night at the bar?

If people at the bar WANT music to be played and they want to dance or whatever, I say give them what they want!

Like what Mr. Delicious said, "change/adapt to the crowd". If you please the audience, the owner will be happy too. My experience is that when there are people who want to sing and the host is DJing music those people will leave and go somewhere else. This isn't a small town, there are lots of choices of places to go here. Do what you want...