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I've never trained a new person from the ground up before. I've always used people who already new how to run a system. I've got a gal I'd really like to bring aboard and I have been stewing over how to handle the pay situation. Do I pay her while I am training her? In the past because the people I've used only needed to be taught how I set up and what rules to go by, I basically started paying them on their first show. She will need to be trained for a while before ever doing her first show.

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Hey Babs:

I have 'trained' people to sub for me before and what I paid them was totally dependent on their level of knowledge about the whole thing. One of the gals I trained was a good singer with a cute personality but she had really no understanding of the mechanics of the board; she DID understand the concept of mixing so it was just a matter of instructing her as far as what buttons did what on the board. I actually paid her half of what I would have paid a sub for the two weeks I basically supervised everything she did.

She came to 4 shows for her learning session.  The first show I basically talked about what I was doing.  We talked about the board, the way things were hooked up, and how to power up and power down (don't assume anyone knows how to do this correctly - as we know, equipment can be damaged or lifespan shortened significantly if this isn't done right).  She pulled discs for me and learned about how I did the rotation during the first weekend.  I intentionally did bad mixes, asked her to go out in the crowd and listen and tell me if she thought it was a good mix. She would come back and say yes or no....if she was incorrect I would explain why.  To me the mix is the thing and as long as someone can even HEAR that there is such a thing as a good/bad mix, they are on their way to learning. I swear SOME PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW THERE IS A GOOD/BAD MIX.

The second weekend I asked her to power everything up, connect microphones, load filler music in the CD player; put a CDG in the player and make sure the video was working. She had to organize the rotation, call up singers, and do the mix. I still paid her half of what she would earn doing the show on her own, and her responsibilities were considerably increased. On the 4th night of the two-weekend training session, I basically turned her loose and I sat back and watched and listened.  At that point she had a pretty good understanding of running a show. I think the trade was a good one - the knowledge she acquired was something she would have forever and actually allow her to secure other hosting jobs, and she got paid while learning.

Training a KJ was a difficult choice for me, at best because I know that I would never expect anyone to do it exactly as I do it but I want it darn close if these are my followers at a show that I am putting on. The last thing I want to hear is a complaint. There are those that WILL complain just because it wasn't you or I at the board - basically I have SPOILED the people who come to my show - they have higher than normal expectations about the way a show should be.

What I pay subs is dependent on what the show itself pays. Generally speaking, half is what I pay although if someone is REALLY experienced and good and well know, I may pop for a little more because I don't ever have to worry that it won't be done extremely well.

k

Karen thank you - that is a great help.

I'm still a little perplexed though on what to pay her. I will really have to start her with baby steps. She is a good singer and has a great personality, other than that she has zero knowledge. She has been coming to my Wed and Fri shows every week for a long time, so she knows the crowd. Since she is already naturally there I figure I'll give bits at a time, so I don't over load her and it will be easier for her to remember what I teach her. So you see it isn't like I'll have her working all night.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Have you discussed the $$ with her? Maybe she has lower expectations than you have as far as what you would be paying her. I think when someone is learning a skill like you'd be teaching her, one that she can take with her wherever she goes with financial gains, she may be happy with very little. A per show per diem could be appropriate - $20 or so to start? Sounds like you are at square one with her. I wouldn't offer too much.

Just the thought of training someone from scratch gives me a slight right frontal lobe headache (kidding) - if she has an ear for sound, all the better. If you're going to have to teach her all about sound reproduction and what makes it good, don't saddle yourself with a big financial commitment. It could take a while!

Best of luck with that.

K

when I was first brought on board a company (trained as a house kj), for one day, I just observed, with the host telling me what button did what... the next night, I was on the clock, and the host was in the side saddle position, with me running the mixing board. Didn't get paid for my first day, did for the ones after that!

Hey Babs,

Good to see you around, it's been a while!  This topic is a good one.  I've never had to do this before, it's always been just me.  I'm a little nervous because I have a situation coming up in a few weeks, where I'll be late and my normal helper (setup/teardown/sings a few songs - only) is going to have to take over for 1-1/2 mths.  I'll still be there every week, but I'll be late...have another commitment.  I've always only comped him some drinks and such...but with the 'start' on the line, I feel I should do a bit more.  In your situation, you should start small and increase as her responsibility increases...you said baby steps.  Until you are sitting back and watching, I don't think you should give up too much.  Do it little by little and see how it goes.  Best of luck to you, hope it all works out...MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

How much you pay should be based on how dependable and loyal you want them to be.   They must be able to handle the entire job from beginning to end.  This includes mixing well, set up and tear down, trouble shooting the system.

You are training them to be you, what's that worth?  To make money for you while you're not there.

I payed them something on day one and it increased to the top rate when they could handle the job totally by themselves.  Training took as long as needed until i felt they could do the entire show as i would do it.   And with comparable quality.   It could have taken up to six months.    They went with me every night they could and worked side by side.  After a while i went and let them do everything and i sat and watched.  If they had trouble i was there.    When i was happy with their performance, then they were cut loose.    Their pay was about 40-60--45-55  somewhere in that range.     My equipment, my insurance, my gasoline, my reputation.

One more thing....you could be training them to one day be your competition.

SW....your post was almost perfect till the end...

Babs, this is something I am struggling with myself right now. I may be out of comission for a few weeks, or longer. My dilema is that I either need to train someone or hand over my shows to a fellow KJ.

As everyone here knows, I am very friendly with Ericlater. I have been to his shows, and although he is new, he has attended many different shows, picked up the god and bad, and had taken a lot of advice from here. He is a very competent host. I have even passed him private work I was unable to cover. But, if I employ him, obviously, he would require a larger amount of money, if not almost all- since he would be using his own equip and such.

Then my other option is to train one of our friends to run the system with my wife. While she is a wonderful thesbian (that's a th not L guys settle down), she freezes the few times I handed her the mic. Our one friend has hosted before at a club with an in house system, but never had to set up and tear down again. I do use a 3rd friend to help me 'roadie' and "pay" him 2 drinks a night. Trouble is he has no ear or personality, but he is the only one that knows how to wire the system.

Right now I am trying to teach the one with hosting experience the wiring, but he never worked a mixing board either. His "pay" for a night is a pitcher. I guess since both of my helpers figure they would be there anyway, they aren't that concerned about $$, but I am not sure they would be able to run a show in my abscence.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I am open to suggestions as well...

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May I suggest a pair of training pants....maybe a pair of pink thongish type britches...... ......then I'd say....pay her well, even though she's just training.......... ......crotchless works for me also.....

when I first took on my helper (now almost partner in a lot of ways) I was still pretty new myself BUt had run sound and lights with bands for years. WE learned a lot together, he had no clue about equipment. a year later he is able to run it , but doesnt have a clue of what it really does.  he is really fun with people something I saw as almost as important. He has Booked A LOT of our shows, but all the money invested was mine. he started out as working for drinks. after a couple months I started giving him like $20 a show (out of 100 or $150) now we have gotten a lot better , and better paying shows. the equipment has paid for itself ect so I give him 20% of shows we do together, and he does one a week by himself  with a 50/50 split. He has never complained, and has NO chance of ever being able to afford a system of his own so he is happy with this arrangement. He makes an extra couple hundred a week sometimes for doing something he loves and partying.  its a win / win. I would never take on 3 shows a week without him to rely on. recently I was super sick for a week and a half. without him I would have cancled at least 4 shows.. I did pay him better than %50 for those shows.  recently he and I have trained his wife to help out or do shows at the place where my small Pa stays set up. its not easy to train people some times, but it does help to have people you can trust when you are unable to do a show.

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

I trained many KJ/DJ, but mostly on the technical aspect of the job. I don't like teaching new trainees how to do thing but why they have to do it a way it is suppose to to done. I spent a lot of time teaching them the basic of audio signal flow chain; gain structure, and function of each audio equipment component.

I do not teach them MC'ing technique; a skill that I myself lack. That one they either have it or they find someone else to learn from.

One more thing....you could be training them to one day be your competition.

How come everytime i post a true and factual statement someone has to take exception with it?

I has happened to me, several times.    You lose a steady KJ and a steady job with it's steady income.    At the time we are talking about $9,000 a year.  :O   It's not fun to invest all that time and then have to remove a knife from your back.    When it happens to you then you will understand.  :yes:  How many pay cuts like that have you taken lately?    You know how much time is invested in starting a new job from scratch.   And then trying to find someone to train to replace them.

One more thing....you could be training them to one day be your competition.

How come everytime i post a true and factual statement someone has to take exception with it?  

I has happened to me, several times.     You lose a steady KJ and a steady job with it's steady income.    At the time we are talking about $9,000 a year.     It's not fun to invest all that time and then have to remove a knife from your back.    When it happens to you then you will understand.    How many pay cuts like that have you taken lately?    You know how much time is invested in starting a new job from scratch.   And then trying to find someone to train to replace them.
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SW not everyone is like that, The guy who took the time to train me and basically handed me his shows had nothing to worry about. In fact when I left his company and quit hosting for him, I could have taken the shows, but instead I hired another host to replace me (for his company) and worked with her and let it ride.
Now, I am sure I could have very easily kept those shows and just booted him out completely, I spent 5 years in one location alone.
But I didnt, because I wanted to start from the ground up, and set my standards, and expectations higher.
But SW I am sorry you think everyone could be that potential show stealer.

Best thing is is you are going to train anyone have them learn from the bottom up, be the roadie, set up, tear downs, get everything down before handig off cotrols. Troubleshooting a big one, what do you do if they cant fix something? And then the Main KJ part. If this person is good I am sure you will have no problems.

Good Luck.

One guy worked out a deal with the bar owner and the bar owner helped buy the equipment.

You are free to your opinion.  I'm not telling you my opinion.   I'm telling you MY FACTS.

One guy wanted to "put me out of business."    He's gone out of business, i'm not.  He didn't make a dent in anything i was doing.    He just wanted to play pool all night while everyone sang.   So his karaoke show was interupting his pool shooting.  JERK with a big idea and no way to carry it out.  He wasted all of his money for nothing.  

I still wasted MY time and MY money training him to be my competition.  He probably used the money to buy his equipment.

There is always someone that wants what you have.  Better get use to that idea.    There is always someone that wants something for little or nothing.    I know Kjs that lost some of their discs because the KJ they hired stole them for "His" karaoke business.

What are you going to do if they copy your hard drive?    A hard drive could be copied in 4 hours.   Or in multiple sessions.

Forget i said anything about it.  Like it never happened and never will.  Everyone in the world is totally honest and trustworthy.     Death row inmates in solitary confinement are there on the honor system.   No keys.

I told them all if the vehicle (Mine) needed gas to use the money to fill it up.  One guy brought me a receipt for gas that was time stamped 11:30 PM.  The show was 9-1PM.  :O   How do you leave and gas up my vehicle during the show?   His old lady took the family car to the gas station.    IDIOT.

no, you're telling us your OPINION, as you won't let ANYONE prove anything by visiting your shows... so no FACTS are proven!

You have to PROVE something in a court of law for it to be considered a FACT in court. And I daresay most of us are tired of hearing your statistics like just because you said so makes it so... not true until you PROVE it.

You're correct that a few others want what you work for. Nobody's debating you or calling you a liar about competition. That's a fact of life. I trained a couple of kjs that branched off to do their own thing, and yeah, there was times we competed for the same bar. But I had no fears because my songbook was better, I had years of experience, more personality, verifiable references... let him go out and get the smaller bars, work for $50 a night... he can HAVE 'em!!

SW makes a factual statement and that's all there is to it, anytime you take on an' APPRENTICE" you are training them to do what YOU do and to in fact be YOU when you are not there.  The fact that if they like the KJ business and get good at it and get a following they could be COMPETETITION.   The way to avoid that happening is as an OWNER of the business you need to stay INVOLVED and close to your customers.  If you're running multiple rigs MOVE your KJ's around and ROTATE them so you can do all the shows yourself once in a while.  :thinkin:

As far as what you pay someone in training it should be a gradual scale.
start by training them away from the pressure of the show ..maybe at HOME or off site.  TEACH them the mechanics of the equipment and the procedures and rules of YOUR SHOW and VENUE.  Then take them to the show once to observe and then let them GO while you overlook and assist.   REMEMBER while you are training them to be YOU .............THEY'RE NOT and will have their own personalities which you need to decide fits your business plan or not.  IF you try to make people YOU ....you will be looking a long time for a Host.

I think I've accidently trained a few friends to be my now ex-wife's lovers..... ....I guess that kinda relates to the Big Pooch's statement...

"I think I've accidently trained a few friends to be my now ex-wife's lovers.....  ....I guess that kinda relates to the Big Pooch's statement...  "


I hate it, when that happens...MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Worse than training someone - going to a show where someone has NOT been trained...Or someone THINKS they trained them - showed them where the volume for the mains was and how to load a CDG...arggg...

Gotta love when you get that "glazed over eyes" look when you ask for just a bit of effects of some kind - then suggest a medium plate.

I'd estimate that probably a full 70% of the hosts in this area do not HAVE a clue about sound reproduction. Ill equipped, and if they do accidentally have an effects board or effects capability, they have NO idea how to use it. And we wonder why there are places REFUSING to have karaoke.

k

And we wonder why there are places REFUSING to have karaoke.

The bar owners have heard too many bad examples and they have a real bad taste in their mouth about karaoake.  I can't blame them.   It's why i get so mad about KJs that have poor equipment, no mixing skills and no clue as to how to run a good show.    Their lack of a being able to charge a lot for their service should be a red flag to any bar owner.     A low ball KJ is admitting they aren't worth much.