Karaoke Forums

Some nights are better than others in all of the country.

It's going to get worse with the gasoline prices making everything else go up to.

Sharon

(here's more, if you'd like)
Also consider that at times during my show, I can find that the rotation has momentarilly dropped to lower than 10 singers.  I have one fellow who always shows up early, by 8:15pm, and must be home by 9:15, if his wife is not with him.  He stays about an hour longer when they come together, even longer if they bring their daugher (who's away at school).   I have one regular who leaves to pick up her husband from work, and is gone for over an hour; but when she returns I have three singers because the husband brings a co-worker.

The magic gags I do, which is not that often, involve my wife and will last about 15 secs. I usually use hankerchiefs and make it look like my wife did the trick. The folks love my wife and love her tricks.  I am sure that you can imagine for yourself, in the environment in which I work, how easy and helpful it is to be able to throw something like that in. And if you can read a crowd, you know just when to do it.

To get the audience involved, perhaps some will even give karaoke a try, I walk around and hand out cordless mics for sing-a-longs.  I have 5.  And believe me, many in the audience enjoy their own efforts over those of the singers.  So, everyone has a chance to get involved...everyone is happy.

With my wife's help, I can pay attention to many things, that would otherwise go overlooked.  And most important, I have the time to figure out what needs to happen next, particularly when there aren't enough singers, or the singers are not exciting the crowd, or worst of all the audience is leaving.

(BTW, I once mentioned that all of the earnings go back into the business.  Also note that there are two of us working the business.  And either one of us make more money at our "day jobs" per hour, than we do working karaoke.  Karaoke is for when I retire from working completely)

Now, as incitefull as SW is in regard to the significance of line dancing for C&W venues, he hasn't grasped how much harder it is for me to do what I do as compared to someone who is hosting a pure Karake show with unlimited singers, each of whom is just dying to come up for their next turn to sing.

He didn't have to come to the conclusion that the demand for his services are very limited; obviously they're not.  Furthermore, he doesn't have to come up with a DIFFERENT format that would distinguish his show from his competitors.  While around here, there are plenty of top notch KJ's whose shows are drawing little attention.  And there are plenty of KJ's who have left the business.

Are there any really successful shows around here with larger audience participation?  Yes!!  And the most successful ones exist, generally speaking, because they are in successful venues with full menus, have been around for years, and often are in locations that tourists frequent!

And note that there are karaoke singers here who spend little or no money and frequent 3 shows a night in order to maximize their turns at singing.  And I have made this known over and over in this forum.  Now, of course we're not talking about hundreds of people, but the handful that exist are not supporting karaoke.  I've had as many as four attend my show at the same time, can you imagine that with as small a group of singers I actually have?

So, those of us who intend to survive as KJ's in S FL need to reconsider every aspect of what we're doing.  I believe that KJ's here need to be prepared to do Karaoke+Plus.  Sounds like a good name for a business.  Huh?

If it wasn't for my concept, my wife and I would have left karaoke behind as a retirement venture last year, even after we had already made our major investment in it.  It was my concept and my enthusiasm for my concept that reinvigorated both my wife and myself to go forward.   And OUR audience loves it
 
More to come

If that is a problem, it is a problem created by the bar for itself. Sell water by the bottle. Problem solved.

Eric,  Thanks for the insight.  I too do whatever it takes at my shows.  Around here there are soooo many Karaoke bars and people do a lot of hopping around. They tend to come and go in waves.  I am lucky that I ussually have between 15-20 singers all the time.  With the exception of the first hour and there are ussually about 5 or 6.  But we start at 8pm which is an hour earlier than anyone else.  

It is very interesting how people will come in and go pick up spouses from work and come back or they come in after work and such.  It doesn't take long to figure out who these people are I have quite a few of them.

_________________
Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

Sharon:  Your definition of high energy parallels what I do and mean by "high energy".  I'll dance with folks, as well, just to mention one of the many "other things" I do to keep the energy high.  Thanks for saving me from the effort of having to describe what you and I do that we refer to as "high energy"

Mckyj57:
"Water Slurpers" is a euphemism for those who slurp bottled water, or coffee, or soda!!!

No.... the problem is not caused by the venue.  The problem is caused by people who are self-centered; people who don't respect that a business exists to make money for the owners.  People, on the other hand, who are considerate of others don't come into a diner and order a cup of coffee and sit there for four hours, at a table for four (or even at the counter).  Or perhaps, maybe, they do if they're not actually interfering with the service provided to paying customers, and therefore don't impact IN THE LEAST with the profitability of the venue.

And how much does a venue make on one bottle of water, retailed at $2.50, or a $2.25 fountain drink?    At 100% profit it would make absolutely no sense to be in business to deal with it.  Those items exist on the menu to supplement whatever else the patron happens to order.  You can't stay in business selling side dishes and beverages.  If doing otherwise made any sense, I'd open a business just selling a variety of bottled waters.

These seem to be three mutually contradictory comments, the last one almost hypocritical in nature.  On the one hand you are saying as a KJ you will do other things so as a few singers don't get to sing as much as they'd like to. On the other hand you are saying as a singer, you'd be dissapointed if a KJ did this due to your time not being maximised!  

If you have one or two singers who are giving the venue their business and who are there to sing,  why do you not let them maximise their time?  If they are "amazingly good" singers, then surely the non-singers in the venue could well enjoy their performance.

Murrlyn,

As a singer I am only concerned with my own agenda.

As a Kj, I have to pay attention to the cash register AND every other factor in running a quality show.  If the audience (of non-singers) pick themselves up and leaves after their dinner, 5 singers having a great ole time won't pay my way.

I don't believe your first quote is mine, but even if it was ( and it's not) having amazingly good singers in attendance doesn't mean they are always there at the start of every show, or even if they are in attendance it doesn't mean that the audience agrees that they're worth staying around for.

And here's the FULL quote of mine that you incorrectly referenced:

BTW Murrlyn- What is the enjoyment in playing "gotcha ya"?  Or more specifically, what does it add to the discussion?  On the other hand, if you have been to my show and disagree with something I've said in describing it, just let me know what it is!  Or if you have a suggestion to improve the turnout, i'm all ears.  I do appreciate that your interested in my postings, especially to such a level of detail.

i post because I have learned much in this forum.  i am trying to give back, not get into arguments.  Postings like yours and SW's make my efforts a chore, which i don't need

Ericlater: You have capsulized everything I have been thinking about this whole forum issue. This should probably be a new thread, but when I contribute, and I probably contribute too often, I am purely making suggestions about what has worked for me. I bought my first system in 1997 and have enjoyed great success.

I am not trying to convince anyone that my way is the best ... ever....I know what works for me/us, in the area we're in, in the venues we work at. I have longevity at shows ... I pick most of them up from the mud and bring them back to respectability. Longevity is something I work for. When I leave, it is because I have chosen to leave for whatever reason. Not long after, those places stop having karaoke because the crowd dries up. I use filler music. I'm computerized. I buy music almost monthly. I pay attention to the people who sing with us. It is THEIR show, not mine. People look at me when I tell them that, like I'm crazy.

I have considered forums a place for learning...not chiding and not criticizing. Each of us has something to offer - not in each posting, not on each subject, but sooner or later something we offer is going to ring true with someone. I thought that was the purpose of this and that is how I use it. Granted, at times I have used examples that sound critical, and there are perhaps some people who consider it aimed at them directly, but the fact is, part of educating is based on what NOT to do as well.

Those who consider themselves the absolute authority need to write a book, not take up pages and pages on this forum, repeating the same old drivel over and over again.

Anyway, I appreciate what you've posted, E. Continue to contribute, please. Some of us get a lot out of it!

K

absolutely!

Well except for that fact that the old man (Ericlater) tends to ramble a little, he has some good points...(love ya!)

From being on this forum so long, I have seen like in most things, FL tends to be a little of an exception, not a rule. I have attended karaoke in 5 states and 3 countries, and I can say there is no 'normal' for karaoke...

Here, we do 2 songs at a time, hence my need and use of filler music. I don't know why, but it is something that has been done here since I started singing in 1993. Two songs is just kinda the standard, and when you cut down to one, people get MAD! Since it is so ingrained, the audience is used to the double recognition as well. I guess it is part of the karaoke landscape here.

Also, I have noticed, and when out of town people visit, they comment on the different feel our bars have, and the different hours. "You're open till 4AM?"

In recent years, the KJ pool has dwindled due to moves out of the area, people passing on, and just plain giving up on the business. Those of us that are left are relegated to $125-200 a nite gigs with bar owners that know most of us are good enough to be fairly interchangeable. I would say 80-90% here are computerized, most have decent to good sound, and fair enough rotations. We don't have the undercutters and pirates here now. If they try and start up, the singers are sophisticated enough to not patronize them.

So I guess the moral is this, I have rode out the Bigdogs of the world, and eventually Sidewinder will slither away, and we can get back to helping and being a community of hosts and singers trying to squeeze just that ounce more of knowledge...

_________________
Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

Well, Dave, I tried to be as brief as you.

But  Amen.... how's that?

Actually water & fountain soda is honestly the bars HIGHEST profit maker.  On 1 fountain soda it will cost a bar approx $.07-.10 per glass.  Sold at $1.50-2.00.  Botteld water , you can get a 36 pack for $5.00.  About $.14 per bottle cost to the bar.  They sell them at $2.00-2.50 per.  At $2 per bottle equates to $72 for that $5 pack.  Could a bar survive on this - sure if that's all they sold, but that isn't going to happen.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

well, I don't get drunk on soda or water, nor would I want to drink five waters as I do five BEERS! !

Lon- that is true, but it takes a mentality shift there too, as most places don't have the cajones to charge PER soda, and if they did, people would be so pi$$ed they wouldn't come back!

My wife is a bottled water drinker and will generally have 1-2 a night. I am a Cognac drinker and have 1-2 a night. Neither bolster the register that much, but when you have multiples doing the same it can add up- just have to make sure water isn't the only beverage.

As Matt said- It is easier and mre appealing to drink 5 beers than 5 bottled waters (paraphrasing of course)

_________________
Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

Not so, you would have a couple of grumblers, but chances are these are the ones that wouldn't want to spend a dime in the bar anyway - these are the kind of people the bar don't want in there in the first place.  Most people are fine paying for their soda/coffee/water.  Our bar charges for everything - refills as well.  I don't think they charge full price, but is still like a buck per refill.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I'm not sure I've ever been to a bar that did not charge for refills on sodas, unless it was for a designated driver and everyone else at the table was doing a fair job of drinking up.  I agree with Lonman, the bar doesn't need the freeloaders.  They are taking up space that could be occupied by paying customers...

I usually get a free ice water at the end of the night!  

--Tad

As I said, Florida is the land of the early bird special, the hanging chad, and the free refill! Maybe that is why 'water drinkers' or 'coke suckers' tend to be more of a problem here. While you are correct that the bar doesn't need them, often times they are part of a group where some are drinking and eating. In that case, how do you segregate them?

Better question. I will use Ericlaters last gig as an example. It was a restaurant AND bar, but they were very seperate. We (my wife, son, I, and a few friends), came in to eat and sing. They had a waitress for the restaurant, and a bartender for the floor. Now since most people in the restaurant are not there for the karaoke, but we happened to be, and I'm sure others were too from time to time, how can a bar account that revenue towards you? If our tab was with the waitress, and was $60+, and only $5 at the bar, the manager only sees $5 towards karaoke.

Has anyone had this problem and/or found a good solution?

_________________
Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

I totally changed our format to a "dinner crowd: type. Our main purpose is entertaining that crowd and keep them there a little longer. They serve good until 10p. We encourage birthday parties and group parties and reserve the tables. A typical crowd starts filling about 7 We play DJ low volume at 7:30 and at 8 shift to karaoke at which time we have about 10 better than average singers And about 100 guests. Before 10p we are catering to the guests and the singers are having a ball because it is a crowd that really gets with it and applauds them.

The crowd might shift sometimes and thin out then within minutes new ones are coming in again and filling the seats.  At 10p if we have more singers that's fine we shift more towards full karaoke. if not for the last 2 hours we are in the disco mode and people are partying heavy. It is ladies night as far as drinks go and it is packed with good looking gals. We have done shows for many years and this is the strangest we have ever seen but it works. It is not typical karaoke. It usually SRO and the folks out smoking provides room and they shift. I guess that is why when I try to describe it here nobody cam imagine it. A few coke drinkers are not going to make any difference in fact i prefer our singers stay pretty well straight until 10p. BTWc we usually go until 12:30 and staff is begging us to stop.

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

If the one or 2 water/Coke drinkers are with a crowd of spending drinkers, then I don't see a big problem - the only seat they are taking up would probably be held anyway for the crowd.  If they are by themselves, taking up a seat not spending, then yes there is a prob.  

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Let me dispell a rumor that crops up here from time to time.  Beverages are not a high profit item other than when one uses percentages.

Consider that a restaurant should strive for a 5x markup on food costs.  I don't know what a 5oz chicken breast cost these days (wholesale), but lets say it $1.30.  Then the restaurant charges $6.95 for a chicken parm sandwich.  So, the percentage of profit on the chicken is only 82% as compared to the 100% profit on the water.  HOWEVER, the venue made $5.65 on the chicken and $2.50 on the water.  Meanwhile, the person buying the chicken parm is likely to purchase a beverage as well.

Or you might look at it this was: would you like to make a 100% profit on $1000 worth of sales or a 10% profit on $1,000,000 worth of sales?