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This past Saturday I SUBBED for another KJ at a bar that was
#1) Bigger than my normal Saturday Gig
#2) Newer and Nicer inside
#3) Pays $75 more per night

The background goes like this -- At my normal Sat gig there are (2) dj kj me and another DJ - I work Saturdays - He works Friday and Sunday and his WIfe works Thursdays all at the same place.  We fill and sub for eachother all the time.

This DJ/KJ comes to me and asks me to SUB for him on Saturday at HIS Saturday gig at another bar ...PAYS $75 more than my Saturday GIG.    HIS WIFE will cover my shift at the "other bar" ..confusing ??..reason being his wife won't do KARAOKE just DJing.    I accept and notify all my regular singers who come out and have a great time.   The OWNER of this other place LOVES the show and asks for MY card which I reluctanly give him and tell him to call me if he ever gets stuck or needs a fill in?  ( wrong or right).   IN talking to people they tell me that the owner of this new and bigger bar has been TRYING out KJ/DJ's to find one he and the customers LIKE and want to KEEP.

IF approached and contacted by this OWNER  is it right to discuss Saturdays with him ?????  I feel no loyalty to my current gig for various reasons but I do feel some PROFESIONAL COURTESY to this other DJ/KJ ---  What do yo think

personally, as a KJ, I find nothing wrong with this... as LONG as the owner of the bar explains this to the current kjs...

If you're liked and wanted, go for it!

IMHO, the circumstances, as you describe them, need to be more fully defined.  To me there is part of this story that has yet to be told.

For one, if your normal Saturday gig is karaoke, why would you and another DJ/KJ decide that on one particular Saturday the venue where you work would NOT have karaoke?

How long has your associate been doing the Saturday gig at the other place?

Furtermore, why would you tell the customers at BAR A, where you normally work to go to BAR B on a day that they are normally at your gig in BAR A?  Sure, the owner at BAR B was delighted; he had his regular crowd and the one you brought with you.

All of these questions may appear to be unrelated to the "dilemma" you might be "facing".  To me, they must be considered before one can rationalize any reason for taking away a gig from your associate, if you are actually asked to do so!  And once you burn a bridge, it's awfully hard if not impossible to rebuild!

Lastly, I am always skeptical of what customers tell me:  I've had many people tell me how wonderful my show is after their first experience with it, and how they'll be back. Have you seen them?  I haven't.  I've had customers tell me how a particular venue is really interested in having karaoke; I've called and gotten a reaction equivalent to my offering to do a striptease.  I've had customers tell me a particular place wanted to change the KJ; half the time there's been no truth to that!!!

We've had this dicussion before - not that it isn't important. I'm an old softy and would not rock the boat with a fellow KJ. I am friends with most of the area KJs and would never take over someone elses job that I considered a friend unless they were either fired from that gig or they handed it over to me. If I was approached about a taking over a gig by a bar owner to replace an existing KJ and it wasn't someone I new, I would have no problem taking it if I wanted it.

I have found in my experience more work comes from being friends with area KJs then being competitive. They'll call me when they can't take a job and I would do the same for them. You get more bees with honey, so to speak.

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if your only connection to the new place is through the KJ who currently holds the job, personally I wouldn't. I'd explain to the owner that morally you can't, and I think he will appreciate that.

However if he is interested in switching KJs and puts someone else in temporarily for a few weeks, and asks if you would be interested in, say, a month then I would be sufficiently decoupled enough from the room connection to agree. Or if the room opens up a few months from now. But right off the bat... I wouldn't but that's the musician in me. It's an informal code of honor for us guys to give some respect to each other's gigs. I think you DJs and KJs are more cutthroat.

go for it its a dog eat dog world  :whistle:


errrr scrub that...it was sidewinder trying out his ventriloquist skills

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Well one things for sure...TELL you current dj/kj friend at the first bar, what went on & then possibly what may be opening up in the future.  Ask them what they think about it.  It is a rough choice, but you have to do what's right for YOU, sometimes...it's not what's right for someone else!  MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Open communication between  all involved. If a bar is trying out different hosts sometimes it is the regulars that decide which one. You edged him out on this one. Maybe next time he gets the edge. As long as you continue to work together you both have an edge and determine your fees. If you engage in dog eat dog then the bars will play you against each other.

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WOW.....this IS a tough one. Like mentioned before, there are some unaswered questions regarding the "entire" situation. HOWEVER.....where I come from (Boston Area) we (kj's) ALL prety much know each other, and naturally discuss the various venues we gig at AND the owners/managers (who ever does the actual hiring) of said venues, It's not uncommon for the people "in search of" newer, better,  (cost aside) to "play" us against each other. My instincts, from what I've read so far, tells me that is what's happening here. Personally, I would NOT take the gig. Again, regardless of what some people here would do, (meaning take it at all costs) you still have to "work" in the area. The other KJ's and some patrons would think differently of you, once they know the "whole" story. They will find out eventually. Bottom line is what's more important to you.....your reputation,...or the almighty buck. Sometimes ( a lot of times) it's worth MORE...to just say " thanks, but NO thanks. Just my  :2cents: .

                              Donny "B"  

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#1) My normal Saturday GIG that I've worked at does not advertise KARAOKE NIGHT although its expected I have it if needed.  As you'll see by most of my responses this venue dictates I run a Karaoke Show with regular music mixed in .  The management usually doesn't care as long as SOMEONE approved is their playing music. --The background on this place is I was originally hired for $150 per night over 4 years ago. For the last 1-1/2 years they cut the pay to $125 per night and REFUSE to increase the pay. All DJ/KJ here will take any job for more money as long as they get coverage and so far the manager doesn't care.   The other KJ has been doing this gig for only a few weeks --His primary income is derived from PRIVATE DJ GIGS so I know it won't be long until he wants me to sub for him on Saturday Night.   My normal karaoke rotation is small and therefore I feel obligated to advise the "regular singers" anytime I won't be there ...they don't seem to mind as the OTHER place was 15 minutes away.

The one thing that has kept me at this bar is the fact that ...they don't care what I do as long as I show up and play music and have karaoke available .  They admit that their busiest night is SATURDAY but won't give me a measly $25 more per night  :shock:  I really don't want to leave as the setup I use is semi permanent and there is a lot less set up and tear down ...But $75 per night MORE really adds up.
It's all hypothetical now as no offer or discussion has transpired --I just think it makes for good discussion  :yes:

Donny

I know where you are coming from ---I'm not out to STEAL anyones gig.
And in all honesty....I might not get asked . It just seemed a strange setup and the possibility is there.  You are correct --we all know each other and frequently sub for one another and even PUSH private gigs each others way if we are booked.

The money is REAL its 60% more, personally I would love to get the offer to work there so I could at least go to my current manager and put him to make a decision about giving me a raise to at LEAST back to $150 night.  LOL

jam,
I realize you're not trying to "steal" the gig. Based on what you said about this other kj, getting most of his finances from private parties and such, and the fact that your present venue let's you do pretty much as you please, would "swapping venues" be a working alternative for both of you? If all parties agree (if you get the offer from the other venue) that could work for everybody, especially if the other kj doesn't mind the "cut". THAT....would be a VERY interesting scenario. Actually....that might be a "first" in the world of karaoke as we know it.

                    Donny "B"  

BTW: I HAD to put the stuff in there about what "other people" think. Human nature takes over some times, and we all DON'T think sometimes......we just .... do.

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Not to change the subject,...but are you still liquidating your stuff  Jam ?? Ive sent you a few pms no response.Thanks

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]

I would like to hear updates on this situation as it progresses, I'm sure others here would too. Please keep us informed how this plays out.

 DITTO.....to what stogie said.....we're all "rootin' " for ya  :handshake: !!
Oh ya...what about that "stuff" you're liquidating? I was hoping to "capture" some items myself??!!


                          Donny "B"  

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I have a regular gig - Wed and Fri.  We get down!!!!!!  All the other bars close down on Wed night and come to my show.

The place in town that gets most of the business on Friday (live, popular bands) - the owner approached me last year and offered me 3x what I was making on my Wed night gig (this was before my show got as big as it is now).  I talked with my current owner, and she upped my pay (not to the same level), but the increase was enough, and the convenience and the steady build to my show, was enough to stick around.  The owner that offered me the 3x, brings his bartenders and some other way cool people and they party there butts off on Wed.  He contracted a mediocre show and does it on Thursdays.

I left my current gig for two weeks once (all hell broke loose), went to a rival bar (more for the stage that anything), and ended up coming back because there are certain things I think we KJs take for granted.

1)  I need a bartender (or two) that know how to work the bar.  The ones at my current gig can do a $1000 till solo, where at this other place I was at for two weeks, the bartender(s) tried to discourage people from being there because they wanted to shut down and go drinking themselves.  I have enough to worry about with the show, I don't need to babysit the bar staff too.  

2)  Most owners don't know jack squat about what it takes to put on a show.  The prep, the tuning, the building of a crowd, the affect inconsistency has on that crowd, etc.  My owner comes in maybe once a month and sees the party, but she makes some of the most asinine business decisions I've ever seen.  Trust your gut, but the grass will not always be greener if you chase that extra couple of bucks.  If you have a solid steady show, stick with it.

3)  I do my gigs in a small town.  In this small town there are eight bars within stumbling distance.  Don't take for granted that a crowd will follow you if loyalties are in question.  Many of the people that come to my shows have loyalties to the bar.  Many wouldn't follow me to a new joint because it's a new place, new tenders, new crowd, it's the difference between sleeping in your bed or your neighbors.  There's a certain comfort people just won't sacrifice.  I've always said, people hang out where there friends hang out, and only a small percentage of the people that come to my shows actually sing.  They're there for the atmosphere, the party, the funny KJ guy, the pool tables, the bartenders, and the casual environment.

You gotta do what you think is best for you and your needs.  Using diplomacy and don't burn the bridges.  Be thoughtful and do things for the right reasons.  To an owner you're leaving, money is not a 'right' reason, even if they don't see the same value in you.  Give them something less insulting, like "I want to grow my show, or try new things".  This might leave the door open for your return, if things don't work out at a new place.  Trust me, they won't always work out.

CD,

Very good post, I got a lot from your statements and ideas.  I think you hit the nail on the head, it's NOT always about just $.  You can very easily talk your way out of both jobs in a short time, if you are not careful.  Be upfront, give the 1st owner a chance and then decide what is best for you.  Best NOT to burn bridges, I try very hard to be that way.  It's easy to get caught up in the moment and storm off or quit over stupid little things, that don't really matter.  Good Luck.....MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

CD

Great Post..... I actually left my current Saturday gig once before (about 1-1/2 yrs ago) when they 1st lowered the pay.   I was offered a show in another town for $50 a night more.  The new place was a nightmare, slow building crowd , owner who didn't understand the karaoke concept as he was too busy playing illegal cards in the back of the bar.  I was there for about 6 weeks when the NEW owner started playing games and at 1st - sent me home early on a slow night ( pro rated pay)  then he cancelled me last minute one time for some SALSA dancing his DJ suggested.  Then another SLOW night I worked a full shift and he STIFFED me $50 bucks cause it was slow....... I quit right there  and luckily my OLD manager took me back ( I heard everyone was complaining about the new DJ who didn't do karaoke) Anyway I'm back .......But when do you ever know its right to try and make some more money ????  I know the 1st hand that the grass is not always greener ....But I KNOW I'm worth more than $125 for a Saturday Night Show.   I just can't get the management to agree with me  LMAO  LOL

Excellent post CD !

I like that no one has prejudged the question and hasn't bashed anyone for there opinion. This a great thread all around.  :hi5:
I'm also curious to see what happens.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

jam

I know a pretty good size guy in a black town car that could "discuss" with the owner his "error in business management" if you'd like?  :yes:  :handshake:

Seriously though, a lot of the owners/managers from around my area have been either cutting back, or simply not providing entertainment AT ALL, due to the finances that we're all facing right now. You're not alone in this one my friend. Now isn't a good time for anybody to try to either get a raise, or at the very least be, returned to the "original" pay scale they were hired at. What MOST owners never seem to realize is that we too, have operating expenses, but for them....not their problem. So, as in your case, you either make do...or try to find some place where the owner can afford to pay what YOU KNOW you're worth. I wish you the very best my friend.  :pray:

                Donny "B"  

BTW: This is a good example of why a contract could  be helpful. Just my  :2cents:

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