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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:54 am 
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karyoker @ Fri May 09, 2008 12:22 pm wrote:
Any machine is most efficient at the middle of its operating range whether mechanicl or electrical AT the extremes the temperature rises reduces the overall efficiency

True. But I don't see how that affects the sound....


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:28 am 
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Essentially as long as both are operating in their nominal range there would be no difference at close range. The  main difference would be dispersion area and the acoustics would vary. At a certain distance from the speakers there would be  a huge difference.

There is a nominal wattage for every venue but as Lonnie says it is better to have more than not enough. Attenuation does not affect freq response or overall sound quality.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:04 am 
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Karyoker - I have to admit you lose me on these technical responses :thinkin:  :thinkin:  :thinkin:

In  KJ terms - is there a formula out there like

X-amount of Sqft  you should use  x amount of speakers pushing X amount of watts ?  

Don't get too technical --I'm sure you know your sheet but it gets lost on me  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:31 am 
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Really there is no formula as not all systems are equal.  A more efficient speaker & power amp combo will sound louder than an inefficient speaker & amp combo.  You just want to get the best you can - look at the specs for sensitivity & SPL ratings.  Most are standard measures & the higher the numbers the better theoretically.  Match the amp to the program rating of the speaker & you'll be good.  If you still need to be louder in a room without having to turn up the volume, simply adding two more speakers will effectively double the perceived volume.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:49 am 
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Solution #1

Buy Powered speakers. You will not have to worry about matching speakers and amps.

Solution #2

Your amp should be 1.10x watts of the continious rating of the speakers.

Your Crown 602 at 380 watts should be used to power a pair of seakers that are 325 to 350 watts at 8 Ohms.

Most Main Speakers are 8 Ohms.

Your Behringer powered amp is 400 watts at 4 Ohms. That is 200 watts at 8 Ohms.


I have found a few speakers that I feel are better than any of the 3 options you have listed.

Good Match for your amp:
http://www.audiolines.com/B-52-Devastat ... 18743.html

Your crown is slightly underpowered and these are 12" speakers.
http://www.audiolines.com/Electro-Voice ... 13238.html

I used a crown XLS602 with these speakers for years.
http://www.audiolines.com/JBL-EON1500-p-20275.html

Another Good match for your amp
http://www.audiolines.com/Mackie-S215-p-17254.html

Good match and Cheap!
http://www.audiolines.com/TAPCO-6912-p-22228.html


They have open box of these Great speakers for $360 But you would need a big amp to push them they are 650 watts

http://www.audiolines.com/B-52-PA-215-1 ... 13284.html


Another Great Speaker But you need a big amp to push them.

http://www.audiolines.com/Electro-Voice ... 13225.html

A Bit Closer but still in need of a bigger amp.

http://www.audiolines.com/Electro-Voice ... 18690.html


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:57 am 
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Disagree, program power is where you want your amp as a rule of thumb which is usually double the continuos power.  Majority of sound engineers will tell you this even many sound stores such as Sweetwater

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When you're matching a Power Amp to a PA Speaker, a good rule of thumb is to pick an amplifier that can deliver power equal to twice the speaker's continuous IEC power rating. This means that a speaker with a "nominal impedance" of 8 Ohms and a continuous IEC power rating of 350 watts will require an amplifier that can produce 700 watts into an 8 Ohm load. For a stereo pair of speakers, the amplifier should be rated at 700 watts per channel into 8 Ohms. A quality professional loudspeaker can handle transient peaks in excess of its rated power if the amplifier can deliver those peaks without distortion.

Using an amp with some extra "headroom" will help assure that only clean, undistorted power gets to your speakers. Some professional amplifiers are designed so they have additional headroom. These amps can cleanly reproduce transient peaks that exceed their rated power. In this case select a model with an output power rating equal to the continuous IEC power rating of the speaker. Consult the amplifier manufacturer or owner's manual to learn more.

In some applications, such as critical listening in a studio environment, it is important to maintain peak transient capability. For these applications, use an amplifier that can deliver 6db (or four times as much) more power than the continuous IEC power rating.

If budget restraints or legacy equipment force you to use an amplifier with less power, extreme care should be taken to see that the amplifier is not driven into clipping. It may surprise you to learn that low power can result in damage to your speaker or system.
.  
Quoted from
http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/live-sou ... -guide.php

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:02 pm 
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There is no formula. What works in one place sucks in another. Some places took 2 or 3 setups to find the best. I am by no means an expert although I have lit many bars with 100 watt jukeboxes. It is more efficient to have speakers placed at critical spots than 2 blaring from one end.  I always wanted to install a good jukebox system and then tap in with a karaoke system but never got the chance. An extra amp would be necessary on one end I think but dont know.

People laugh when I say 100 watts. When Pioneer came out with their first CD jukebox we were one of the first installing them. They had an 18" bass in the bottom. When cranked the cone was going in and out 2-3 " It would break windows. I totally fried a 100watt L pad to a black crisp the smoke called the fire dept.  

A good soundman or KJ will learn the limits and strengths of the system and get the best out that is possible. They were making music long ago without all this modern stuff. It is know how. I have made tis statement before and will make it again Run your system outdoors and see what it really will do.. Tweak it and get the best. Then go into different venues and learn how to compensate for acoustics.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:15 pm 
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But that's also part of it, more speakers will seem louder than 2 trying to cover an entire room.  Most of the jukebox systems i've seen have a minimum of 4 speakers in the club.  I know ours has 6 spread out evenly throughout.  When that thing is on, you know it's there & its internal amp can't be more than 100 watts either.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:38 pm 
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lyquiddye @ Fri May 09, 2008 2:49 pm wrote:
Solution #1

Buy Powered speakers. You will not have to worry about matching speakers and amps.

Solution #2

Your amp should be 1.10x watts of the continious rating of the speakers.

Your Crown 602 at 380 watts should be used to power a pair of seakers that are 325 to 350 watts at 8 Ohms.

Most Main Speakers are 8 Ohms.

Your Behringer powered amp is 400 watts at 4 Ohms. That is 200 watts at 8 Ohms.


I have found a few speakers that I feel are better than any of the 3 options you have listed.

Good Match for your amp:
http://www.audiolines.com/B-52-Devastat ... 18743.html

Your crown is slightly underpowered and these are 12" speakers.
http://www.audiolines.com/Electro-Voice ... 13238.html

I used a crown XLS602 with these speakers for years.
http://www.audiolines.com/JBL-EON1500-p-20275.html

Another Good match for your amp
http://www.audiolines.com/Mackie-S215-p-17254.html

Good match and Cheap!
http://www.audiolines.com/TAPCO-6912-p-22228.html


They have open box of these Great speakers for $360 But you would need a big amp to push them they are 650 watts

http://www.audiolines.com/B-52-PA-215-1 ... 13284.html


Another Great Speaker But you need a big amp to push them.

http://www.audiolines.com/Electro-Voice ... 13225.html

A Bit Closer but still in need of a nigger amp.

http://www.audiolines.com/Electro-Voice ... 18690.html

I like the JBL's --How are they for VOCALS ..I know you mostly DJ are they good for Karaoke?


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:31 pm 
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Quote:
But that's also part of it, more speakers will seem louder than 2 trying to cover an entire room.  Most of the jukebox systems i've seen have a minimum of 4 speakers in the club.  I know ours has 6 spread out evenly throughout.  When that thing is on, you know it's there & its internal amp can't be more than 100 watts either.
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But Lonnie doesnt it still give you a rush when you say kill the jukebox and you say test test test into a microphone with crystal clarity. And you totally blow the jukebox system away LMAO

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:11 pm 
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I actually do karaoke 4 nights a week. I used the JBL's for 2 years without a single problem, I think they sound just fine.

$1000 this all can be yours. I will meet you 1/2 way on delevery

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/msg/663806775.html


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:14 am 
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Lyquid- appreciate the offer.   Although probably a killer set-up not in my budget.
I KJ partime for extra $$$ - I do take it seriously but the $275 I make a week working 2 nights does not justify the purchase.

Thanks


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