Karaoke Forums

I went to a place in Florida tonight, and I sat down to order my dinner. I put in a song, and I was busy eating, so I wasn't paying much attention to specifics, but I was thinking man, the sound is pretty bad for a place this nice. I was wondering if I was just in a bad place for the speakers.

I very quickly was called up to sing, and got up on the stage. I couldn't hear a thing, so I started looking for the mains so I could try and hear myself some. Lo and behold, there was a Bose L1 right next to me! I couldn't hear, and when I moved around front of it I could hear just a bit better but still very poorly.

Overall, it was some of the worst sound I have heard in a place that nice. My Tapco speakers and amps, and Yamaha mixer, and my other rig featuring Behringer and Peavey blow that stuff away. I know the eq was bad, but when you can't hear yourself 3 feet from the speaker, it can't be just that.

I don't know much about the bose system, but what I have read is that the sound is AWESOME if set up correctly... Just not enough OOMPH for most LIVE applications  unles you set up multipe sticks with bass bins...but then again who has $10,000 to spend on a small pa system ?

I can tell you this, the person using the system didn't know what they were doing. I've experienced the Bose several times now. It works fine and sounds very good when properly set up and adjusted. I still prefer conventional equipment, but there are appropriate  uses for Bose.

I've also been to several other venues where the sound was terrible and they weren't using Bose equipment. There are for some reason lots of people out there that don't have much of a clue about what they are doing and apparently they can't hear either.

Bose L1 is just another type of sound equipment.

I have yet to see one of the properly set up Bose systems. Every one I have heard has been substandard, though there was one long-running show that has about a 5 week window where it did seem to sound better. Then it got worse again.

In addition, every time I have sang on one I have had difficulty hearing myself. Perhaps that and bad sound go hand in hand, but I am simply not impressed with these things every time I see them.

I was more skeptical than you before I went to a couple of places that had Bose. Belive me, when used properly they sound just fine. I stopped going to one Karaoke venue because the sound was the worst I have ever experienced. They were using some old JBL Eons. I believe that if that system was properly wrung out at the mixer and rack it could sound decent. I've heard plenty of bad systems that weren't Bose. There are a lot of bad operators out there.

I agree - There are people who swear by the  Bose systems.
Personally --not worth the money , unless you are a single entertainer in a small venue

I agree there is a lot of bad sound out there, but I do hear some decent sounding setups, and not that infrequently. I would say 1 out of 2 sound halfway decent.

Out of the 6 or 7 Bose systems I have seen, not one sounded real good. And three of them were very bad, like the sound of my poor friend the deaf KJ.

Jam, this wasn't about whether Bose are worth the money or not, it was about Bose sound quality. I have already stated twice that they sound just fine when properly operated. I have personally experienced this. I don't own or promote Bose.

I wonder if the Bose sound is just completely subjective?  I also have not heard it sound good first hand - but now have been told it may not have been set-up properly (seems to be the excuse), the directions from the manual were followed.  I was not impressed with the quality of the sound or the 'ooomph' either.  Worked great as a stage monitor - I admit that.
As far as this thread not relating to cost (worth the money), well in a way it does, somebody spent a couple grand on a system and mcky said it sounded like crap.  Yes probably operator non-knowledge of sound, but the guy probably could have spent far less to have it sound like crap  :D

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I actually contemplated those speakers and in spite if them being set up in a commercial setting where they actually SELL them, I found them to be lacking ... especially for the cost.

It comes down to simply this - it seems that if the operator doesn't understand that there is something wrong or substandard with the end product (sound coming out of the speakers), it doesn't matter how much they've spent. I've heard systems that were the product of a very minimal investment sound good because the person behind the board knew what the sound should be and tweaked the combinations until it happened.

So first you have to recognize that the sound isn't good, then you have to fix it. If the equipment you have has limitations, you work within those limitations but work at it until you get a good product. Obviously Bose has good products and maybe the limitations on that particular speaker are something the average karaoke operator isn't able to figure out. Not unusual to find poor sound, we all know that. The frustration arises when they don't fix it - but what makes that more frustrating is they don't recognize that it needs fixing!

k

The venue where the EONs sounded so bad, I can't see how mentioning to them that it sounds really bad would do anything no matter how diplomatically you did it. This operator does multiple shows per week at different venues and I think they would
1. be insulted  2. think that I don't know what I'm talking about  3. shrug it off because they think it sounds just fine. I had another patron at the same bar tell me during conversation that the sound was terrible, it wasn't my imagination, this person mentioned it without me saying anything, she was a good singer too.

For the same $2,500 that one L1 system costs you can put together a great sounding conventional sound system, but that doesn't mean that the Bose sounds bad. Properly operated it sounds just fine, but compared to a $2,500 conventional system it can't compare except in one respect, PORTABILITY.

I have no motivation other than I've heard the Bose sound just fine several times. To dismiss it as crap is unfair. Is it expensive? you bet! Is it worth the money, that's a matter of opinion. I'd prefer a pair of 15s and a nice sub, but I can see how the Bose has it's place in the world, that's all I'm saying. It may very well take a bit more expertise to operate it properly.

I've been to plenty of shows where they had Yamaha, JBL, Peavey, and Carvin and the sound was terrible. It's not the manufacturer it's the guy running the system.

The Guitar Center guys don't even understand how to properly adjust a Bose L1 (well at least here in Portland)....why?......they don't take the time to read the manual. With the Classic and Model 1 systems the wired remote is the key to volume and the factory presets make a huge difference in how it sounds. If you don't have your settings right it does not matter what mixer you run with it you will not get the sound you are looking for.

Many of the guys or gals that work at GC have an excellent working knowledge of sound equipment and can make most systems sound good, yet they have a problem getting the Bose L1 to do what it is capable of. If I would have based my buying decision on their understanding of how to set the system I probably would not have purchased it.

When I purchased my system off of Ebay the system was only 120 miles away so I did a pick up to save shipping. When I got there we set the system up and plugged in the remote and we plugged it into my laptop to give it a test. It was a dual bass system and the bottom end sounded different and lacked umph, and the clarity did not sound right. I mentioned this and the guy said that is how it has always sounded. Then it dawned on me......I looked at the presets he had selected. Presets are factory EQ presets for different input sources like insturments and microphones and playback devices. He had that channel set at "00" so I dialed it into preset "58" which is a DJ playback setting that is "Bass Rich" then played the same tune.......you should have seen his eyes  he says OMG what did you just do? I showed him the manual and the section that discusses the 75 or so factory presets and what they do.

He said he had been using the system for over 2 years for DJ work and did not know the system had that capability. Now here is a guy that had 14 years in the DJ business and he did not take the time to read the manual. It was like a night and day difference in the sound and volume level. Then I tweaked the remote to dial in the proper gain stage and adjusted the highs and lows a bit and they system output was sounding great and this was all without including a mixer in the signal chain. He almost did not want to let the system go, so I quickly gave him the money and packed it out.

My point is simple. You can have the best equipment available and still not have the sound right and it has little to do with the equipment itself if you are using properly matched components and of good quality.

If I said that JBL sucked or Mackie sucked I betcha there would be a heated discussion. It's so easy to target Bose because most folks know little or nothing about them, even the guys who sell them

Bose is a good tool for karaoke if you know how to use it as such. Just like many other systems out there.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I think this is a MAJOR key for many.  They think their sound is the best but have no ear for it - I went to a club that advertised "THE BEST" sound & went in & it was a basic Peavey mixer amp driving a couple of 12" tops that were annoyingly tinny sounding.  If a host can't hear bad sound quality, then the best system will not help them out.

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The Manual comments are not a convenient excuse. Unless they understand the presets and how to adjust the remote then it is going to sound off base. I had quite a learning curve with it. One thing that helped is my Monday night venue purchased one for their Live Entertainment and I learned there. Once I had the proper presets and settings it was awesome. It took me about 5-6 shows to get it right. Then I purchased one for myself.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I have to agree with Lonnie on this, many folks have no idea what sounds good!

The guy that boasts the Best Sound or Biggest Selection usually does not have either. We have a guy here that has invested no less than 10K in his sound system and still can't figure out how to keep his wireless mics from feeding back or his sound from being muddy.

Some folks have an ear for it and some don't

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I always have a private laugh when I have people come up to me and tell me how great my system sounds, or compare it to other systems in the area (I am pretty sure I know where you were and whos show Mjky). The reason is that I am not running anything special. I use Gemini passive speakers, a crown amp, and a Mackie mixer. My on stage monitor is a Yamaha 10" that I run the entire mix through.

It is 100% with the operator. I have heard systems 5x as expensive sound aweful, and comparable sound just as good. I have yet to experience a Bose system sound good myself. The major people using them here are either using them in inappropriate venues (too big), or bought them for ease of carrying, and have no idea how to tune them.

Someone suggested I get a set, and I asked if they wanted to sponsor them....

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

Then obviously Bose needs to do a better job of educating their users, because 7 of 7 lousy sounding systems is not impressive at all, at least to me.

It is kind of like Sax & Dotty software, I am sure you can get it set up properly, and you can get it to work reliably. But people in the field are simply not doing it.

I would really like some day to find a good-sounding Bose L1 setup. One where I can hear myself sing and where I can hear others shining in their vocal efforts.

It may be Bose education. Many people do not read the manual.

I will tell you my bose system works great. I will only use it karaoke for small karaoke parties. I rather have the big booming system for bars, but it would work just fine.

Thnigs people do not know about the Bose sytem that leads to terrible sound. The gain structure is completely different than a conventional system.

With the Bose you run 1/2 gain instead of full.

If you use XLR cables to hook it up The Pre amp Doubles.

Preamp explanation. 2 Inputs with 1/4" they are +3 db each If i remember correctly that makes +9db of input signal with both in use. So if one uses XLR 2 inputs of +6db makes +18db that is quite a hot signal especially if you are like me and have a +4db output on your mixer.


Bad sound is everywhere. With many different systems, not just Bose. I one does not know the basics of audio they should not be in the business.

I have to agree that the gain structure and settings are completely different with a conventional system -vs- Bose and I have found that using XLR inputs directly changes the whole gain structure as well. When I was using my XLR outs from my DFX12 Mackie board I had to use 20db attenuator pads to reduce the signal. Once I purchased the T1 mixer I did not need them.

Bose has an excellent user forum for educating it's users and offering technical support but people have to use them to get the benefit. There is a wealth of info there.

I feel confident that my system will handle all small and medium sized venues with ease and I would add another tower more bass bins for large venues. Sound does not have to be blasting to be heard. If the unit is properly placed the singer should have no problems whatsoever hearing themselves.

I still have my other 2 systems and will readily admit that my Bose will not fit in every conceivable setup, but will work for the majority of what venues or gigs I do. My other systems are just fine and will fit the bill as well, I just prefer the clarity of sound to my other ones. The T1 mixer has completely changed the way I look at mixing and makes it a breeze.

Will I get rid of my other systems? No way! Why?....they are paid for and work just fine. Will I add another L1 and a couple of B2's to my setup? Maybe.....if the need for them is there, so far I'm totally happy.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

The one thing about Bose that most musicians will tell you is that for the first time in their careers they are hearing exactly what their audience is hearing, and that makes them hear the flaws in their playing and vocals as well. Many have testified that using the system has taken their performance abilities to the next level and beyond and they are a better artist as a result.

Keep searching for that good sounding Bose system out there. Once you do then you will understand what it is we like so much. Everyones ear is different but mine says that I finally have the sound I have been searching for years. As for the KJ's who don't know their system sounds bad, we can't help them unless they want to help themselves. (clarification....Bose L1 users that is)

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott