Karaoke Forums

This is kind of venting and asking for some help from you veterans.

All of us at my home room knew it was just a matter of time until the place blew. It has been fairly quiet for several weeks. I mean you could actually find a place to sit on Thursdays, which is very unusual (this place is small).

It all happened last Thursday. After the first hour rotation went over 30. And you guys know what that means. Two hours plus. I don't know how over, because I stopped counting so I wouldn't get sick. I know I'm in for a rough night when we get over 20.

It was one of those "perfect storm" events. Two birthdays. Two singers bringing in CDs, which happens rarely. One was off the internet and brought the player down. Never happened before. After that the computer didn't work right. While I was fiddling with it it stopped mid-song on a duo. It was so embarrassing, both to them and to me.

I didn't know the second singer with his own discs, but he was obviously experienced because he had a folder with his whole repertoire. I kept trying to get his first disc (a Chartbuster) to load but it just wasn't happening. At the same time I was trying to juggle the rotation just enough so the big birthday (a very popular regular who practically never misses a night) could sing at midnight. The disc guy gets really hot, grabs his disc, flips me off, yells (Edit: I originally quoted him a little too accurately for someone who voted to kick me off the forum so I've deleted this part of the story) , and stomps out.

All the other singers, even some regulars who know better, were constantly down my throat..."why aren't I singing more... you gotta get me up..."

Finally I had had enough. I scolded the room over the mic. The place got really quiet. I've never done anything like this before. I don't even know exactly what I said. I lost my cool.

So what do you hosts do on nights like this? Do you just bite your tongue and take it? And what do I say tonight? I'm torn between apologizing and staying tough saying "don't verbally abuse my like that...." if I'm asked about it.

I should probably say that I'm not ignorant about why Thursday nights are so popular. It has nothing to do with any skills I may (or may not) have. I just have a combination of PA and karaoke songs that aren't available in my area, which is almost totally country and oldies everyplace else. When it's this busy it's meatmarket karaoke. I'm not singing. I'm not even hosting. I'm just calling out names. There is no time for anything else.

Bill, I think you could do both, apologize for maybe getting too angry, but making people understand that they also shoulder some responsibility for what got you to that point.

Perhaps getting flipped off and being told " F*** You! " was the start of what made you lose your cool. I can tolerate alot of things but that is totally uncalled for. I don't know what I would have done had someone treated me like that. My brother on the other hand would have barked back at him and it may have got ugly. I'm glad you took the high road, that idiot is not worth it!

Lastly, don't be too hard on yourself, it was a bad night, sounds like you had more better ones than bad ones, this expierence will help you in the future if you let it. I'm sure you will. Have a good next gig and this one will be a distant memory. Rudy.

I believe that you don't have to put up with verbal or physical abuse while hosting. I had a guy a couple months ago threaten to "kick my @$$" if I didn't get him up. I had one of my good friends watch my equipment while I invited the "gentleman" outside. All of a sudden he didn't want to "kick my @$$" anymore, since I stood up to him.

I have had issues similar to your bad night. It's part of the job, but so is reacting.

Bill

You may not like what I about to say, and many of you might disagree with me. And please understand that while I've yet to blow up with a "room" I have lost my cool with some individuals and wished, afterwards, i hadn't

I look it as part of the challenge of this very difficult profession to maintain an upbeat demeanor at all times. AND it's often almost impossiblet to do. But consider that there is no upside to losing it. It may feel good momentarily but it is a short-lived satisfaction.

Some of you may have reasons for excusing blow-ups. I understand how easy it is for our work to become stressful. Consider, though, that we don't accept blow-ups from police officers who often must tolerate the most abusive of situations.

I don't tolerate myself "blowing up", though I have lost it.

What works, is to take a deep breath when things start "going south" and tell yourself that "I'm gonna stay cool and in control - nothing's gonna get me down"

my 2c

Eric

Eric, I don't disagree with what you said, you are allowed to make mistakes, we all are, but it's if you keep making those mistakes every few weeks then you lose your credibility.

It sounds like it was a very bad night and a few people may have felt they were unjustly chastised, luckily most people don't hold grudges so whatever you decide to do I am sure it will work out for you. Unless you yell at me, then we have a problem! Stay cool Bill, Rudy.

Actually Eric I don't disagree with you. Afterwards I thought "did I really do that?"

What lit the fuse was the CDG guy, and it was my own frustration as much as him. I haven't had guys bringing their own stuff in more than a couple of times since the new computer, but I've rehearsed the routine here at home so I would know what to do without fumbling around.

What I should have done is restart the computer, but it was so packed by that time that I tried to limp through until it slowed down. It never did though. No one left.

Trying to think back what I said went something like this:

"Alright you guys listen up! So far tonight I've been yelled at, cussed out, flipped off, and the rest of you... whenever you come up to see me all you do is bytch, moan, and complain. Look around. It's busy in here. I'm trying to do the best I can, so BACK OFF!!!

And I will be cool tonight Rudy. I think they will all still be there. I may have some explaining to do.

I've had this issue creep up a few times, especially with one of my two shows, which tends to get extremely crowded post midnight. I simply jump on the mic between singers and announce, "Hey, folks, we've got a ton of singers tonight, so please be patient. Everybody will get to sing, don't worry." It usually does the trick. If people get irritated by the long wait and leave, well, it's unfortunate, but what can you do?

If there are a lot of new singers in this time, they'll get priority, as the others have probably already sang two or three times at this point. Again, I'll jump on the mic and say, "We've got a lot of new singers, so I'll be working them in this round." I'll alternate between singers from previous rotations and new singers so the people who stuck it out all night still get to sing, as do the new singers. I think this irks the new singers more than the regulars, but I'm not going to short change the people who come to see me faithfully every week.

I try to be as fair as possible, and for the most part, I think I do a good job. Every once in a while you hit a little bump in the road, and you just have to take it in stride and not let it ruin your mood.

I have a motto with my shows: "If you're not having a good time, I'm not having a good time." I refuse to let some itchy, pretentious douche ruin my or anyone else's good time. We all have bad nights. If you want to make a quick apology, go for it, just don't make a production out of it. "Hey guys, last time was a little busier than normal, so sorry if things got out of hand. We're all here to have a good time, so let's get back to that, shall we?"

Barring that, sing Dennis Leary's A$$hole as your opening tune and dedicate it to yourself. Might be a good ice breaker.

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hi-voxentertainment

Bill, I feel for ya man! It has happened to everyone in this business at one time or another and usually the first time it happens is the most stressful.

One thing I have learned is that a 4 minute song cannot be shortened no matter what you do. Second most folks don't understand how much time a 30 singer rotation takes. And you will never teach them either.

Here are some things that will help:

1. Limit Duo's and make sure that one singer in rotation gets credit for the song
and only alow them to sing once per rotation.
2. Announce over the mic and remind folks that there are now 30 singers in rotation
and that at an average of 4minutes per song that is a 2 hour rotation. Thank them
for understanding and ask them for their cooperation by not coming up to find out
when they will be up. Tell them that you will keep them informed as to when they
are up.....Next up is Jenna, followed by Jim, then Carol, Mary, and Ralph.

3. Also announce that to make things run smoothly if you are next in the rotation you
you should be heading to the stage the moment your name is called and be ready
to sing. Any song changes should be done 5-6 songs ahead of your spot in the
rotation.

Most folks tend to get competitive and impatient with large rotations, and when you add alcohol the 2 hour wait seems like an eternity to many. So keep your cool and realize you can only do what you can do and nothing more. You will never be able to
please all of them so don't worry...You are going to piss somebody off and they will get over it.

The guy with the discs and the attitude is not worth having as a customer if he cant have a little patience with you in this type of a situation.

One thing I have learned is that things seem like they are way worse than they acutally are, and folks that get pissed and leave WILL be back. They will come back
a week or two later and will have forgotten all about it.

When the whiners come up and harass me I just look at them and say....When there are 30 singers in rotation I cannot play favorites and I can't make a 4 minute song play shorter. I suggest they have a drink, enjoy the show, and above all have fun. I will however get tough with someone who continually comes to the booth and makes demands or threats. I just grab their slip and say "so should we just pull you from the rotation then?" That usually does it...

Just Stay cool and do the deal. They will get over it or go someplace else for the evening. Once rotations get over 25 singers folks start thinning out a bit anyway.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I'm going to get a good taste of huge rotations today myself. I'm doing karaoke for the Rose Festival Naval Fleet @ the local Navy Days Celebration in the American Legion Hall

We are expecting 300-400 Sailors to come through the doors during the 8hr gig. I'm sure I'll have plenty of singers...

I'll post some pics.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Flipper-Actually the sailors cn be some of your best karoake customers. I had a pac of them come int and sing all night with me at the Grand a couple years ago. They were excelelnt custys. It helped too that I am retired Navy--so I had something in common with them besides Karaoke. Some of the ships have karaoke onboard out to sea. They kinda have to be on thier best behaviors as any incidents for them the repercussions can be SEVERE. With a large gathreing the SHORE-PATROL should have a prescence also.

As to crappy nights--my worst the amp I was using started crackling in the middle of a full house at the Cheerful Sports Page in Beaverton. Everyone was getting antsy and I was strting to panic. But what I did was reset all the switches on the mics, make sure all cables were connected well and then shut power to the amp for about 10 mins to let it cool, then started over. From then on out everything went well.

Probly should have shut the puter down and tried to do a reboot. Were you loading his song into your puter? MIght have been his song info was corrupt or infected with some kind of virus.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Bill, your instincts were right... ya just messed up in the delivery.

Like Flipper said, remind them that it's a VERY packed house. Remind them it's over 30 singers, and you will get to everyone as fast as humanly possible. BUT they should also be prepared for a two hour rotation at the very least!! It might go down as people leave to find another venue...

You know, as much as I'm one who brings in outside discs, if it's THAT busy, you go with the flow. If you couldn't accomodate him, tell him so. Tell him your new at the cdg part with your current system, and on a busy night like tonight AIN'T the way to be training yourself.

ANY computer glitches reboot!!! I can't stress that enough. A fault won't merely go away. In fact, it'll usually bring about a cascading problem. A reboot takes 25-45 seconds. You'll have to restart the hosting system, and enqueue the next singer. As that singer is singing, you can get the next one and the next one.

THIS IS ONE REASON I NEVER GAVE UP ON SLIPS... what do you do when a computer crashes.

I've not had one happen in the middle of the show, but I know it's a possibility. Heck, my motherboard died on me at home... with no apparant faults or warnings, other than a slight hesitation in some programs...

Best of luck Bill. But I'd work hard at running sample rotations at home and try to duplicate the problem so you know how to avoid it.

Chances are the problem chartbuster disc was a multisession disc (16 or 17th track is a data track, usually an advertisment for the company), and that user SHOULD have known it.

Take my advice, Bill. Get a cheapie karaoke disc player, and have one set up to hook into your mixer! If it's not used during the night, you're out NOTHING. If you have singers come up with their own discs... you're set!

Thanks Matt. I will always reboot from now on whenever there's a problem. I still use slips so that's not an issue.

I've been going through all the comments and have been getting ideas for things to say when it's stacked up like that. Previously all I've been saying is that we're really busy and please be patient. I think the best advice I've got from you guys is to lay it on the line and announce precisely how long the wait is. If people bail, well that's what's happening anyway, because they aren't getting up when they want to.

One of the reasons Thursdays are the busiest night of the week is that there are no other karaoke bars close by open past midnight on Thursdays. It's amazing. I would have thought by now that one of the other three would have figured it out that it would be to their advantage to keep it going longer. The closest one, a country bar less than five minutes away, closes at 11! So here I am, stacked up already, and ten country singers come in.

I retraced all my steps here at home and the problem was not with the Chartbuster disc, but with the first singer's track (a Fiona Apple song I didn't have) she got somewhere off the net. She'll probably be in tonight and I'll ask her where she got it. Anyway it wasn't zipped so I re-ripped it and put it in her folder... opened it, played it, inserted a Chartbuster CDG, drug a file off it, dropped it into the Siglos player... perfect... it's all working like it should. But for some reason the player didn't like reading it off the disc.

There are those times when every KJ loses it..no need to say sorry ..singers will always try to get their way at some point..stand your ground..its your show remember that

One thing I might add Bill. Backup . I have 2 hard drives I can bootup and use with the main rack comp. Also have a laptop which I can hook up and only time lost bootup . I use recargeable batts in wireless keyboard and mouse. All items in audio chain I can bypass. For parties way out of town might take another JBL Eon.

It takes awhile to get redundant but it sure takes the pressure off.

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Gem's got a serious point there. Don't let them push you around. THis is what I meant by you had the right thoughts, but implemented it incorrectly.

Be open and honest with your singers. If it's getting to be crazy, then let them know.

One other thing. Unsure what your rotation is like... but this is one of those times where I hate to insert singers into a current rotation. To me, a line of folks waiting to sing is like a physical line. Put ALL new singers at the end of the current line, as if they'd walked up to a movie line at a theater. Say everyone loved "Iron Man" and many went back out in the line to purchase new tickets to see the next show! Just because you saw the smeggin' thing before, doesn't mean that the new arrivals that haven't seen it yet get in front of those still in line!

I disagree with this INTENSELY. Even if I'm alone on this, I don't mind, but I work new singers in as early as possible, to ensure repeat business.

When I start a show, I have a physical list I write out of all singers. It works like this:

Singer 1
blank space
blank space
Singer 2
blank space
blank space
Singer 3
blank space
blank space

Etc. on down the line. I usually stop at between 12 and 15 singers for the first rotation. As new singers arrive after that, they get placed into those blank spaces on a first come first served basis. I'll start by placing the first new singer right below the Singer 1 spot, the second below the Singer 2 spot and so on, until spots are filled. Then I go back and start to fill those other spots.

This way, the rotation is balanced. Singers who have been there all night get to sing, as do those who just walked in the door.

If I'm at the beginning of a 20 singer rotation, there's no way in hell I'm going to make a new singer wait 20 songs before they get to sing. Not trying to be a jerk, but man, I'd never go back to that show.

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hi-voxentertainment

First time thru, everyone who is singing has sung, is the first 'rotation.' Then, as new singers come in, I insert new ones between the original rotation. It can build like that all night. If it's midnight or later, and I've got 18-20 singers, and they've been buying booze and food all night (paying for my services, essentially), and new singers roll in and want to sing, they MAY or may NOT get in. I give them the ol' "Now where did you spend your money tonight instead of here? Now I don't have time to let you sing. Make this your first stop next time you're out." Then smile like a a cheshire cat... I will make every effort to get new singers in, especially if I perceive that they may come in next week or the week after, and become regulars; I do know the people who jump from show to show so they get to sing at least one song at each place (they might hit 5-6 places in a night) - they don't spend money. They have the least chance of getting put into the rotation. And the big group that rolls in 15 minutes before I'm finished for the night, drunk and not servable in my location, don't get to sing at all. Funny- they figure, hey, show runs until midnight and it's only 12:45 - we can sing. I tell them sorry, already did last call on slips....usually partner puts the books away once I figure that only the singers who remain will sing....keeps the drunks from getting their hopes up.

I frankly think that rotation is the biggest stumbling block for a lot of hosts. I know when I'm on the other side of the board, I don't expect to wait two hours to sing if it's halfway through the night. There is no incentive to stay if I figure I'm not going to sing anyway.



k

When they start getting bad and asking me when they are going to sing. I play a 3 to 5 song dance set. Walk away from my computer, get a beer and a shot and hit the mens room. When the 15 or so minutes passes I head back and pickup they mess I left off.

I never tell people how long the wait is I just say there is a ton of singers. The more money the bar makes the more I make so I don't want people leaving.

You just showed 2 great examples why to decline customer disc. I don't even carry a player to give them the chance.

In Bill's example, people are coming from other shows at 11PM. They've already had their sing in. In my mind, and maybe I'm just wrong, but they go tot he END of the line. If they wanted to get their sing on in my venue from the beginning, then they would have had equal time.

When you insert singers, you're basically punishing the ones that have been supporting your venue all night. I just don't think that's right. Karen's comment about "If it's midnight or later, and I've got 18-20 singers, and they've been buying booze and food all night (paying for my services, essentially), and new singers roll in and want to sing, they MAY or may NOT get in. "... it just amplifies my point! Treat your supporters like GOLD.

Must be nice to alienate your customers! WOW!