Karaoke Forums

In previous threads I have tried to shed some light on the bar business. I have managed VFW clubs and for a time my sister had a liquor store. I am tired of the statements made here about all bar owners are dumb. All bar owners hire pirates at a cheaper price and on and on.

My steady gig (we just got word they are reopening 10th July) tried different KJ hosts and after one night we had the job for the rest of the year at $150/night. After a few months I asked for $175 and there was no hesitation. The new owner is a karaoke singer that runs a very successful business not bar related. He bought out the rest of the owners and we have been closed for awhile. WE have had some very serious discussions about every aspect of this bar. He admits the only time it makes a profit is when we are there on sat.

Last winter my host was working for another bar owner that was expanding his building,doing drywall etc. Although he was born in Greece he moved to this country at an early age and owns very successful restaurant also. He needed a filler host so we did a birthday party on a wed. His son (Sotorious) was blown away He hired us for every open spot including haloween night. The owner made the statement the other hosts were putting people asleep. I have had some serious discussions with him also but he knows that the other hosts are my friends and I would not try to take their jobs. He respects that.

I do have an advantage in the fact that I know the bar business and have at times been in direct sales. If it is indeed like that in your area I would not work for most of the bars there. When I do an initial consult I have researched the owner and bar. I will not work for an owner that drinks in his bar. The same with weekend warriors. They have to have an established business record. If they are a member of the local chamber of commerce that is an added bonus.

How many here have a registered business license and pay taxes on each gig? With this prevalent anti-owner attitude I really dont know how you get gigs or keep them. This is partially a vent but I hope it gives some here new thoughts about acquiring gigs and working with staff. Approach them as fellow employees . When you go up to the bar take up some empty beer bottles. A successful business takes a team effort and without formal meetings takes constant communication with all involved.

My major goal when I do a gig is put black into the Z tape. There are dead nights but if I do not do it the majority of the time then I am not doing my job.

BTW pirates do not rule the karaoke business here in fact they are gone.

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I pay taxes quarterly on my business - have to all the bars i've ever worked required me to give tax info so they could send 1099 at the end of the year, I think I worked 1 club that paid under the table & I still paid my share. Fully registered/licensed.

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Legal business? You bet! I have the bars W2 me, not 1099 and I have them withhold taxes for me out of each check that way I don't have to pay quarterlies. Then I submit my expenses with my tax returns at the end of the year. Works best for me.

Random audits of bars is a popular thing for the IRS to do these days. Most bar owners are writing off the expense so it is going to show on their books. When they do an audit they look at everything and they are going to find you one way or another so it's best to do the right thing and pay your taxes and report your earnings.

If you are not reporting your income and you think you have your bases covered and are operating under the radar...think again. One day you will get a letter or phone call or a knock on your door and it won't be the Avon Lady...

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Definately legit. I report all income, although it's all been under the table from the bar. I have done my job, the last thing I want to do is have that knock at the door! If this was my full-time job, I would also do the quarterly thing, but I haven't been to the point were I've made enough money to even worry about it. I also haven't worked the same bar or the same place, every weekend somewhere. I'm all over the place, a night here...a weekend here..a party there. I agee with you Ollie, if the bar is NOT making money..it certainly doesn't look good on you and your business. It's a team effort for sure, help me..help you! MrD

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Owners with unrelated successful businesses who use a restaurant/lounge as a tax writeoff are the most susceptible to audit. Of the many places that I've done music in over the last 20 years, I've never heard of any that were audited if they were the sole business of the owner and in the black. But I guess anything can happen.

Every January I get a fistful of 1099s and report everything. My CPA tells me that a business license is not a legal requirement for me and I have been going with that.



I'm not getting this vibe from the current group of us on the forum. But it sure was happening when I first joined. Personally I'm very happy with my owners.

Glad to hear that you are going back to your steady room when they reopen in July Ollie. Let us know how it works out!

I can see no corelation between having a registered tax paying business entity and the type of business you have ...?? There is no evidence that the amount of money you charge or the number of GIGS you have is equal to the type of show you run.
There is no proof that KJ's like most of us who PAID thousands for their libraries are any BETTER than those who purchased a HD of ebay for $500 . This is all BS

The only things that determine the type of Business person you are and the claiber of your show are BASIC BUSINESS common sense . I agree that communication, hardwork and teamwork will get you many more gigs at a higher FEE than not doing these things. Treating customers fairly and employers with respect goes along way in EVERY business ( like you know) .

But there are many more BAR OWNERS AND MANAGERS who care more about HOW MUCH they PAY YOU than HOW MUCH you can bring in - in extra $$$$ for all the singers and friends that come to see your shows.

Are ALL owners and managers dumb? OF COURSE not ......only the ones that refuse to pay the KJ's what they deserve

I absolutely agree with that. I am one who indicated above that there are a lot of really poor owners....Poor in the sense that they really have no business sense. This is probably very regional - we are in an area where there are 1-2 bars or taverns almost on every corner. They come and go like the wind. Many are 'new' owners who may have been former employees who believe they can buy a bar and make it work. On the other hand, there are incredibly good owners who really know what they're doing, have good business sense.

Don't think for a minute that I believe all owners are not smart or good at what they do. There are just a lot of them who are NOT, and they are the ones who continually fail at getting good karaoke going (and subsequently good CROWDS and increased INCOME) because they don't want to pay for it - they can't see the value in the investment. They continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again. Can't help those kind and wouldn't even waste my time trying.

k

I think we've all seen this. But when former employees take over, they often know what needs to be done but don't have the financial resources to pull it off.

It all has to happen immediately or they run out of cash. They don't have the cushion that long-time owners have.

My current home room has been owned by the same family for over 30 years. It took three months to get karaoke firmly established there. But they were extremely patient about it. More patient than I was. I actually quit after a few weeks because it was so slow (I didn't like taking their money without producing much and I didn't want to damage my own reputation in the area), but they talked me into staying another month.

That was over two years ago. That month has gone on for awhile now.

The room I tried it in just before that fired me after two weeks. But I knew the situation. I knew that if I didn't produce immediately I would be out of there because they were running on a shoestring.

Now if that guy had the cash reserves of my current owner, he would probably still be in business. But he lost it anyway. Nothing else he tried could get established in that short of a time period either.

Try to remember that if there was no owner, there would be no business and therefore no gig.
I too have seen alot of bar owner bashing threads here, though admittedly many are older threads.
It makes zero sense to bash the owner since he/she's the one paying you to gig.
You may not like their decisions or the way they want to do things, but it IS their bar.
Having said that, there are things that I would NOT allow an owner to dictate to me, such as how to run my rotation, asking me to favour anyone, whether it's friends, family, or a big spender, which cd's to purchase, how to print my books, etc.
Anything that directly impacts my business I will not allow them to tell me what to do anymore than I would presume to tell them how to run their business.
When I purchase my own bar (never gonna happen! ) THEN I can do as I please.
Until then, I will keep my mouth shut and do my job and they can do theirs.

Well I think that most here aren't "bashing" but venting...as a forum for KJ's if we can't do it here among friends then where?

I'll even join in...

I was hired by a bar over the phone who told me they's been doing karaoke for awhile but their existing host didn't have a lot of current music and seemed kind of "boring". Well that's one thing I've never been called! They told me they'd give that host a final week and then have me come in the following week.

Because the bar was in a far-flung mountain town suburb (a 60 mile round trip from me) I let them know my rate included a little extra for travel. They had no problem with it and we agreed on the weekly price.

During that week I did some promotion for them on MySpace, Craigslist and some other web communities announcing my new show. I got to the (rather small) bar early so I'd have plenty of time to work within their logistics and position my rig for the best access and setup.

Owner comes in just about when I'm ready to start and immediately lets me know they've "made other plans" to "change things up" from week to week and that they'd be "trying out other KJs" on Mondays so this would be my first and last night there. WTF?!?!

The night progresses and there probably weren't 15-20 people through there all night. Only about 6 different people - who appeared to be friends - were singing over and over in various combinations. I asked the bartender if that night's numbers were light; he said they were typical for a Monday. Also that this was only Week 4 of them having karaoke. I looked on the bar's MySpace pics and, you guessed it, their karaoke singers were pretty much these same 6 people.

So the reason why the owner basically let me go before the night even began - so she could see my show and the number of people it would attract - suddenly made sense. It had nothing to do with me or my performance. She obviously already found someone cheaper!

Why oh why can't bar owners be honest about such things? I'm a businessman, they're businessmen. I never take business decisions personally. It's like a relationship where you're told some BS why they're breaking up with you ("It's not you, it's me!") but not the REAL reason. I'm a big boy, I can handle it!

As it turned out, I'm glad things ended the way they did because it looks like this sleepy mountain town pretty much rolls up their sidewalks on a Monday night and getting any kind of critical mass of people to make it worth their while would be a daunting challenge.

It's all water under the bridge...but for what it's worth my rant is about bar owners who aren't candid with their entertainers: Be honest with me!

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That kind of treatment of KJ's will never result in a quality customer base. The owner is only dreaming of one.

We had a place locally here that did a 8 week audition of local KJ's, a different KJ for each week for 8 weeks. One of them was his regular KJ.

So for 8 weeks he got a completely different cross section of customers that followed their respective KJ's along with their regular Friday Saturday crowd. Good for their business but stressful for the KJ's and the regular bar patrons.

Results for who won: At the end of 8 weeks the Regular KJ won the Job.....go figure.

Results for the Bar: Good business for 2 months, then back to the same old boring KJ and his limited selection. End result was the bar was out of business within 90 days. The customers followed some of the other KJ's to their local gigs and became regulars there. Not a good idea to show your customers the top KJ's in the area and then not hire them..

Bar owner thought he won, then ended up losing his customers and ultimately his business. He thought he was being clever but this guy fits the Dumb Bar Owner classification if I ever saw one. Maybe you have all the smart ones Ollie...

Kurt.....Remember "Rain Man's" it closed then reopened under a new name about 6 months later.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Doesn't matter how many times you tell an ignorant (of the facts) owner about how long it takes to build successful and steady karaoke - you can't bring in a different KJ every week and audition them because it doesn't prove anything other than that she/he may have a dedicated following. The real goal is to bring in singers other than the followers who appear the first week - that is, in reality, allowing the KJ to build an even larger following...which become regular patrons at the location.

I always recommend to places that it is in their best interest to not just go on the basis of a reference from someone; and rather than deciding on the spot to go with that person after a reference, that the best thing they can do for themselves and their business is to surreptiously drop in on the potential KJ and see what kind of a show they do; better yet, talk to the owner and find out if they are all that they may say they are. You can check out the clientele that way, too. I don't think this is sneaky, either. And in fact, is more up front.

Hosting companies that offer pro references (past/present happy customers/owners) are the best bet to procuring a replacement host. A resume doesn't always reflect success, either, if it consists of a list of places where they have HAD shows....probably means they don't have longevity once their contest and novelty nights lose their drawing ability. Running hosts through like cattle is just a poor way to choose a hosting company.

k

I currently work four different clubs a week - I adore two of the bar owners and the other two, well, I don't adore them.
The two "good" bar owners planned out what they wanted karaoke to be like at their bars. They each promoted the shows, recruited singers themselves, and agreed that I control the shows - no interference/"suggestions" from staff or owners.
The two "not so good" bar owners are failing to work the crowds, advertise, or support the karaoke. (One sends out his raw trainee bartenders on karaoke nights because he doesn't think karaoke people drink that much.)
Guess which two bar owners are happy with karaoke and which two are puzzled by sub-par sales?
(The situations are workable, but it would be in their best interests to pitch in a little better.)