Karaoke Forums

so says the newbie, and I've been here for HOW many years?

I have no TUDE... what I DO have is a PASSION for an entertainment form I've dedicated myself to for 15 years!

most of my comments here are more on rotation than bribery, but the thread seems to be about both.
I know shows where the Queen couldnt get bumped up a spot before she had to leave
I know shows where The KJ and his friends sing %75 of the songs no matter how many others show up.
I have heard enough complaints about both that I do my best to be in between. I will bump somebody who has to leave if they have sung , but Not a lot. abuse of this will be remembered. I WILL pull myself and my close friends if the rotation gets thick. They know it and accept it. They also understand that I do so Beacuase I do not want th rep of favoring them. I usually will slide a new singer (who is drinking) into one of the next slots. if i have several I go every other with singers who sang in the last rotation. I am likely to slip the 2nd shifter who comes out every week in more often than the water drinker who has been singing all night and only comes around every once in a while.


FAIR is different things to different people. I LOVE karaoke, and do my best to Make it Enjoyable to everyone who experences my show. Im sure the extreme karaoke purist will disagree with How I run a show, and thats ok with me. I do my best to make sure everyone gets to sing who wants to. I have had a few ask me about my rotation. I explain how and why I do what I do, and most after spending a night and relaxing about it seem to understand.

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

WTF does that have to do with the price of wheat in China? ( being a newbie ) I've seen that BS line used on every forum I ever been on. ( not on me, you're the first by the way )

I actually expected more from you, a man of your stature and education. Grow up, quit being a bully, it's getting old fast. You can state you opinion without being a jack a **, try it, it actually works better and you don't come across.......well you know the rest.

the only person that attacked on here was YOU. You were the first person to swing the proverbial sword.

I'm outta this conversation!

I stand by my opinion on your posting style, but if my original post was misconstrued as an attack, then I sincerely apologize for that. I was trying to get a point across, but I thought I did it with a bit of levity, I guess I didn't and I am sorry for that. I just hate using emoticons! Point taken and I'll be more careful how I express my opinion next time. Perhaps you could do the same. I also am done, sorry for the derail. Rudy.

Knights, I know I am new to this forum but have been contributing to internet forums for entertainers for many, many years. You can probably find some of my old Usenet posts still out there. I'm also a moderator for another DJ/KJ forum with over 50,000 members. When it comes to online forums, it doesn't matter to me how long someone has been a member or what their post count is. If they express their opinions clearly and intelligently, I want to hear (or read) what they have to say! They don't need a pedigree to matter.

I prefaced my opinion with, "With all due respect to the way everyone's chosen to do their own show..." Not to sit in judgment of what anyone does or doesn't do, just adding my take on the topic. I care about the shows and the singers. Just as I'm sure the bartender who pays extra attention to making sure the patron who tips them isn't kept waiting even though others may have been at the bar sooner. Or slipping the maitre d' at a fine dining establishment $10 to be seated a little sooner or at a better table. Does that mean the bartender or maitre d' aren't "passionate"?

As I mentioned, most people who hand me cash with their song slip neither ask for nor expect any favoritism. I appreciate all of them! And there are also many people who want to give me cash but cop an attitude, holding the cash in their hand until I agree to let them sing next. Attitude is everything! Cash or no cash, they are asking me for a favor not making a "purchase". I guess if it were truly "bribery" only the color of their money would matter.I'm not trying to win a popularity contest here. One promise I'll make to this forum is I'll always be honest and tell it like it is.

I can assure you that everyone who signs up sings at least one song during the show. Those who sign up every rotation sing 2-3 or more times. I encourage people to come early before the place gets crowded if they want the most stage time. Anywhere from 200-350 people come through the door during my show. Keep in mind that most people who attend are NOT singers. The management wants the entertainment value of the show to be high first and foremost. If the crowds are any indication, I deliver that - and a host of weekly regulars buying booze - in spades.

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For those of you you are quick to point fingers here,,,remember when you point one finger at someone else, there are three more pointing back at you. None of us are perfect, either as hosts or people. But if you draw "lines" that you regularly cross, like taking bribes, shame on you.
I always take tips, but NEVER take bribes. I too, have turned down a $100 bribe before, but will not turn down a tip for doing my job, and sticking to my rotation. My rotation is pretty set in stone, but if a new singer puts up a song with only 20 minutes left in the night, I simple tell them, they probably won't get a chance to sing. I am polite about it, and let them know they need to come earlier, and not be shy about getting song requests in early. NO amount of money will buy my reputation. PERIOD! And thats the way it should be. Thanks all, and happy singing!!

Scott

My standing policy is no quid pro quo. If they tip me they tip me for good service - not because they expect anything 'special' from me.

The closest I've ever come to 'breaking' rotation is something I did out of necessity.

I run a FIFO rotation. Basically, you sing, you go to the back of the line. If someone comes in while you're singing then they are in line in front of you and you get put behind them. Think bank teller line.

There is a bar that runs a strict rotation. As long as there are new people coming in the door you don't get to sing.


To compromise from what they 'were' doing and what I felt most comfortable doing I would leave myself in the rotation. Normally when I hit 5-6 singers I drop out of singing but leave myself in the rotation. If I'm offered enough money I'm not opposed to giving up MY spot. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. They say, $50 to sing next, and I say, I'll be up in xx# of songs and you can have my spot but I'm not putting you up next, it's not fair to the people here drinking and having a good time. The people who have approached me about this have been placated and accepted the offer.

Want to sing next? Buy a round for the house, pay the bartender - including tip - and I'll put you up next. Another option? Get permission from each and every person in front of you in line, bring me that permission in writing and I'll CONSIDER it.

Tip is a tip - just saying thank you for keeping it fair & doing the best you can do. A bribe is saying I do not care about anyone else unless you have the cash to back up your thanks! This is the way I see it, when I was just a singer it PO'd me more than anything to see someone BUY their way to a higher spot. I personally never returned to that show which is why I created my policy. I ( hopefully ) run my show like a singer would like to see - though I know this is never possible for all singers .

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Call me dense, but I still read this comment to mean that if I come in late and haven't sung yet, you'll put me up if I hand you some cash. If I am mireadeing this, then please explain to me what you meant by that comment... "I can be swayed with a nice honorarium."




Based on this statement alone, that sounds very fair to me. BUT, if you take the quote before that, how am I supposed to interpret that (see my prior comment above)?

Maybe we both are too blunt in how we speak things on this bboard. I responded directly to Dan when he said he takes bribes (paraphrasing here), and he openly admits things. I responded directly with that, with no pretense.

Seems to me you were doing something similar.

For the record, I never got upset at your post, just responded flippantly to it.

My posting style speaks for itself. I'll admit I get bothered by other's postings... I'll never accept the kjs that mess with rotations by taking bribes, and feel they can justify it. They're more than welcome to run their business the way they want to, but I won't go there if warned in advance of how they are as a host... and if I go to a show that's that way, I'll let them know point-blank (along with their venue's management), and then I'm outta there!

my apologies for appearing brusk... but I will admit, that's ME!

I had an ahole offer me a $100 once to sing next to impress some girls he wanted to take home .... he was drunk but SO SO SO SO SO obnoxious. and he is this way EVERYTIME he is in the bar. I didn't take his $100 ---- - I told him $20 . JUST TO GET HIM OFF MY BACK

the funny thing is 5 minutes later his friend comes up giving me a hardtime for CHARGING HIM TO SING ...said he will tell the manager - I JUST LAUGHED AND SAID GO AHEAD .... I DIDN'T CHARGE HIM $20 I SAVED HIM $80

If you come in late and haven't sung yet (and everyone else in the queue has already done so once or twice) I'm happy to put you up WITHOUT any "honorarium" too.

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That didn't really answer my question. I asked you to elaborate on what you meant by that comment if I was misreading it. You just sort of side-stepped it.

You could probably make a lot of money just running a show under a sign that said, "Pay me to sing - the more you pay, the more you sing." Probably give you a real good feeling at the end of the night.

Oh man, my sarcasm is boiling over today. Sorry. This whole money thing is just is the antithesis of my style... But really, I suppose if money is the root of your karaoke business, go for it. Make everyone pay to sing. (Oops, there I go again...just the kind of mood I'm in)

k

After discussing the "honorarium" thing with a friend who owns a busy club and has karaoke, he said if he caught the KJ taking bribes or any monies to bump up people, his tail would be booted out the door. The owners main concern is his reputation and whether his customers are happy or not.

There's aplace up north from here that has a coin op karaoke machine. Stick your dollars in and sing away. On busy nights they have a guy monitor the crowds and go to rotation mode if people are requesting it.

Your friend is an exceptional individual. Most bar owners have two main goals:

1) Make money by keeping the majority of their crowd happy
2) Re-read goal #1

I don't tell the owner how to sell drinks, he doesn't tell me how to do my show. As long as the show is moving and people are drinking, every bar owner I've ever worked for as a KJ could give a patoot if someone occasionally has to wait one or two more singers beyond a strict rotation before they get on stage if the place is packed and people are drinking. At bars where I've worked as a DJ, the owner took the same tact with the occasional patron who'd whine to him about the music I was playing and why I wasn't playing his requests. Of course those complaints invariably were when the dance floor was packed.

Recently I was surprised when the manager for one of my current shows took it upon herself to come on stage occasionally and grab the mic to tell everyone to tip the KJ, then pass around an empty beer pitcher for cash. I admit that embarrasses me a bit; I don't think tips should be directly solicited beyond the occasional "Don't forget to tip your waitresses and bartenders!" I have NEVER EVER asked for a tip. And my "honorariums" are few and far between.

I'm not currently doing a venue with "serious" singers or divas. Granted some can be incredibly squeaky wheels who might even count the number of singers between songs or new ones who come in. I don't choose to work at venues like that, but can see where some dedicated singers might prefer them.

In my first post in this thread, I gave all due respect to the way everyone's chosen to do their own show. I'm not here to judge. I'm also not an official who's taken an oath to uphold the letter of the law. Relax, people...I'm just doing a show!

Moving on...

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All shows are not created equal and what goes on at one show may not be acceptable at another.... If no one complains about a small bump ahead ?
Hey if DDK can make a few extra bucks and the show does not suffer GO FOR IT !!

If people complain or management complains like most good business people -he'll have to change his ways.....

The TIP/BRIBE is all about the way it is "presented" - If you're an obnoxious arrogant slob --I couldn't care HOW MUCH MONEY you had ...I'll make you wait LONGER than you should if you piss me off . But if you presented yourself and wanted to "TIP" me for a small bump .... you can and I might do the best I can .
You have to know your singers and if you can BUMP someone without pissing people off --go for it. But if you PISS people off it's just not good business sense to keep the bumping going on.

Stuff like this gets around. There may not be any immediate impact, but there will be long term consequences when the word gets out that a particular KJ can be bought.

I don't bump for money under any circumstances. But there was a suggestion when this topic came up a few months ago. Have the briber "buy" another singer's slot from them.

You won't see the money yourself but it may be beneficial to both parties. There's always a few singers in my rotation who would gladly accept $10 in exchange for their position in the round.

So far I haven't tried this out though. In the heat of the night I keep forgetting.