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Jian
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 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:38 pm |
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I am in agreement with you Chew; but you need not have to double post to get your point across. 
Asian and most of the non-English speaking world based their karaoke on the vcd/dvd format. English karaoke songs are mostly cdg. To those who have never seen a cdg screen, it look like an unfinish work. Where is the video; they will ask?
I my home town; cdg will not be work.
The good thing about cdg is that it can be ripped to mp3+g with little lost of quality but used up very little hdd space. An other feature is that it is recorded in stereo, where as vcd/dvd is in mono, being multiplex.
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Karen K
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:46 pm |
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Flipper @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:06 pm wrote: mckyj57 @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:39 am wrote: Flipper @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:06 am wrote: I think your show will be unique to those who dig the videos, however I feel that the main stream karaoke crowd has become accustomed to CDG format and it's fine with them. Some of the older Pioneer videos were very distracting for the singer others were not. I cracked up at Lonman's show when I was singing the laser disc version of "Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown". There was a very comical representation of the denouement of Leroy, and I wasn't expecting it.  Lonnie's Pioneers are a perfect example. There are a couple that come to mind....one I can't remember the name of the song but many folks refer to it as the "Woody Video" where some guy is walking his girlfriend to the end of a dock on a lake and after a couple of kisses he turns and begins walking back and you see that a certain part of his anatomy has grown "quite large" it's a hoot but try and sing that song without cracking up etc. L It's Blue Bayou that you are referring to - I have told so many women about this video and of course that automatically means if we are at a place that offers the old lasers, I'm put on the spot to sing that song and then NOT laugh at the end. Yah, right. It's pretty comical.
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Chewonit
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:16 pm |
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Sorry, edited my double posting.... didn't realize it when the screen did not show... my fault.
On the issue of multiplexing.... I think that relates to the old technology in LDs and VCDs when the vocals plus music are typically recorded in the right (or maybe the left) channel when the other channel is only musical track. The DVD recording do not have this issue as DVD audio tracks can be laid out in different channels while supposedly preserving the stereo effects. That is the ideal situation, but karaoke DVDs in the market, especially those with a lot of songs compressed onto one single disc, will have varying standards in sound quality when one switches from vocal accompaniment to karaoke music. There are cases when the DVD is a compilation of VCD versions and that can create havoc when you try to rip them onto hard disk (these qualities usually suffer).
Good DVD karaoke tracks do provide good stereo sound.
I have been using my faithful LD player to play my karaoke LDs while duping each song onto a DVD recorder in order to rip later onto my hard disk. One interesting thing to note is that cheaper karaoke LDs can only be recorded either with music or with vocals, while the more expensive branded LDs especially from Pioneer and some Korean brands (such as SKC) can result with a karaoke video track on recorded DVD that can provide a video with vocal option (yes only mono sound in this case by selecting L or R on DVD remote). If stereo sound is important then just record the non-vocal music version from every LD.
I generally will regard the stereo sound as not high on my priority list when transferring LDs into DVDs and then into VOB files onto my hard disk. The more important factor is to have a vocal guide for some tough songs in case of need.
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Jian
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:41 pm |
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Most people in this forum like to think that CDG is the de facto standard for karaoke; it is not. It is THE standard for English songs only.
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Chewonit
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:49 pm |
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I have enjoyed myself tremendously in different KTV lounges in Asia and at one time in Chicago at a bar.... they all used video projections on big screen - you see the singer on stage and then the video clips with the color changing words at bottom.
The ones in Asia are so automated that allows guests to select songs on touch screen monitor installed next to the sofa. Song selection uses graphic interface, and one can just tap on Frank Sinatra's image to get a whole list of songs by Ol Blue Eyes on the computer database and then tap again on the song title to select on que.
I just thought that this will be great to bring this kind of KTV lounge entertainment back to home for private or corporate parties (if I can squeeze everything onto a laptop and a USB external drive for the MTV karaoke video files).
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mikebarefield
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:23 am |
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I read through this thread with great interest. I think this debate is cultural in nature. Although globalization continues to diminish cultural differences, there are certain cultural preferences which will be more difficult to incorporate. Given a choice of rice or mashed potatoes with my steak, I'll choose mashed potatoes every time. An Asian would most likely prefer rice. The karaoke with a video background is no different. With certain exceptions, most Americans will not like a video background playing while they are singing. I believe that Americans perceive karaoke differently than Asians. For Americans, it's fun, but it's fun for a different reason. We are a nation of proud people who (go ahead and call me on it) love to show off! We are all rock star wannabes. Our goal in getting up to do a karaoke song is to get the attention, my 4:38 of fame. I'm not sharing it with an original video of the Bee Gees singing behind me. Because why would anyone want to look at me with Barry Gibb in tight white disco pants with no underwear on?
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karyoker
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:08 am |
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BOTTEM LINE When I or any of my singers perform before an audience we do not need visual aids. We entertain the audience and attract large crowds. There are some called VJ'S who provide videos. That is fine if your venue requires it. I have no need to provide videos at this time, however if it demands it I will start providing them.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:50 am |
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I have to agree with all the "Nay Sayers" in this thread.
I have tried video backgrounds and they were universally hated. I can foresee all sorts of copyright problems.
I have tried the touchscreens and the problem there was that the touch hot spot had to be so big that it made the human interface clumbsy and slow.
Good luck on your product but I don't think it is going to catch on in the US.
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Karen K
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:43 pm |
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I will naysay too - most find the videos very distracting. Most of our singers are pretty good entertainers and nobody sits with their faces glued to the tv screens anyway - there are always things going on that are a lot more interesting than a video you may have already seen 50 times.
k
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Mantis447
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:24 pm |
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Referring to the original post about Karaoke software... I think you should make the software. Whether it will prove to be succesful in the US market, will need to be seen.
I would certainly look into this software, as I plan to build a home system, which can play CDG / VCD / DVD. I am testing several different software options now, before I commit to buy one.
It seems like the software you are talking about, is very similar to the Unify Karaoke software. If you can improve on that software, perfect.
As to using this software in Karaoke Bars, or venues... it will prove to be a difficult sell, as many people have pointed out. For a home / personal use alternative, I believe it could be a good option.
Good Luck!
- Michael
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Donny B
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:43 pm |
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Jian @ Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:41 am wrote: Most people in this forum like to think that CDG is the de facto standard for karaoke; it is not. It is THE standard for English songs only.
 Jian,
That's because English is the second most spoken language in the world, second only to Mandarin, but you probably knew that anyway. 
Donny "B"
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:57 pm |
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Chewonit @ Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:48 am wrote: Hi fidelity in DVD videos is the way to go hereon. What I am proposing here is that CDG karaoke is an antique form of presenting and enjoying karaoke. I could not believe that there is so much following of CDG technology here in USA. In Asia, karaoke goes straight to music videos with all the prompts of onscreen karaoke text. The computer software support in USA is also very focused on CDG... which is a pity. Which is why I am working on a KTV computerized touch screen, graphic image driven search system that can play karaoke videos from DVDs and VCDs ..... not just CDGs.
OK, thought you were talking about MP3s. Whereas I may agree that this medium produces equal sound quality ( blue-ray DVD might be awesome!), there is a problem of marketing.
Why is Windows a standard for PCs? It's possibly the lousiest platform available ( remember Y2K? Only Windows was affected). Because it was marketed properly. It's computer for morons- and it sold. Marketing put VHS in the slot, killing Betamax.
There is also the question ( now) of compatibility. Many (but not all) players can't play DVD karaoke. In order to get people to upgrade, there has to be a HUGE gain by the consumer....
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mckyj57
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:03 am |
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JoeChartreuse @ Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:57 am wrote: Why is Windows a standard for PCs? It's possibly the lousiest platform available ( remember Y2K? Only Windows was affected). Because it was marketed properly. It's computer for morons- and it sold. Marketing put VHS in the slot, killing Betamax.
While I am certainly not a Windows fan, I have to mention that Windows had essentially no Y2K problems at all. It, like VHS, is certainly a monument to marketing. But it in fact is a pretty advanced system and in some ways is cutting edge.
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Dennisgb
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:14 am |
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Chewonit @ Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:55 pm wrote: I have read many discussions on this forum and have checked out one of the biggest karaoke retailer in SoCal, and found that:
(1) All the discussions so far were about karaoke using CDG disks. CDG disks I felt are antiquated version of karaoke systems. The screens are boring and cannot compare with the video karaoke VCDs, DVDs or even the old LDs. Certainly having dedicated MTVs accompanying the karaoke text will captivate more audience attention and appreciation than just simple CDG font text over a color background!
(2) The so-called karaoke-on-demand systems available at retail stores have very limited capabilities. Even the ones from CAVS actually plays CDG tracks and uses common stored video overlays as backgrounds. It is not true KTV quality standards. Others from many Chinese makers runs into almost one thousand dollar but have very arcade search function and menu system.
I have been exploring computerized karaoke systems that can
(a) deliver a slick graphic interface and menuing system like those in KTV lounges in Asia that customers can browse and select songs on their own through touch screen.
(b) Songs can be selected by language, artist, song type (country, pop, folk,...) and of course by song titles. To make it even more pleasing, selection by artists are pages of artists' photographs on screen, and when touched will bring up all the songs from that particular artists in the database for selection.
(c) And the software will play the MTV karaoke video or even CDG on TV connected to the computer, while the menu screen remains available on the computer monitor.
I am a bit surprised that the level of software development mentioned many times in this forum is more geared towards the old CDG only. Paying a hundred dollars for a CDG software is just insane. It is about time that karaoke in this country move on to vidoe MTV karaoke for more visual and audio fun during parties.
I am in the final stages of development of this system. Yes, the PC still needs to be connected to a mixer amplifier and wireless mics. I am in the process of digitising and converting all my LDs, CDGs, VCDs and DVDs into the hard drive and compiling them onto the database.
Stay tuned......
A couple of things on what you wrote.
First, many of the DVD karaoke songs, while having video in the background, are of inferior music quality, from the top CD+G producers, Sound Choice, Chartbusters, and DK Karaoke. The Pioneer disks are probably the only ones that I would consider using. Most singers want quality sound reproduction first, in terms of the software you use.
I run both Karaoke and Video DJ ( Music Videos). I think it's important to offer the "extra" punch that the videos bring to the audience when I DJ, but for karaoke it's really secondary. The only ones with video that really make an impact, are the old Original Footage Karaoke disks that were VCD's with the actual artists in the background of the song lyrics. These were taken off the market some time ago...illegal?
Here's a shot of my Video DJ screen running Carlos Santana:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22794316@N03/2195898297/
I like your idea, but wonder if it will really make a difference for karaoke.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:49 am |
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Quote: Why is Windows a standard for PCs? It's possibly the lousiest platform available ( remember Y2K? Only Windows was affected). Because it was marketed properly. It's computer for morons- and it sold. Marketing put VHS in the slot, killing Betamax.
Weeelllll.... If memory serves.
The Y2K issue was all about BIOS chips in very early machines. That's hardware, it had nothing to do with Windows (NOT meaning to defend Microflacid.) Someone, somewhere, got the idea that twenty year old computers were running critical services and went about shouting that the sky was falling.
The Beta vs. VHS battle was won by VHS because Sony refused to license the Beta format to other manufacturers.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
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mckyj57
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:42 am |
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exweedfarmer @ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:49 am wrote: Weeelllll.... If memory serves.
The Y2K issue was all about BIOS chips in very early machines. That's hardware, it had nothing to do with Windows (NOT meaning to defend Microflacid.) Someone, somewhere, got the idea that twenty year old computers were running critical services and went about shouting that the sky was falling.
Nope, memory isn't serving.
The big problem was mainframes and COBOL systems which tried to save memory by encoding year in two characters. Some embedded systems and devices had the same trouble, but mostly they didn't have enough dependence on outside systems to matter.
Systems like Windows and Unix which measure time in seconds since 1970 or some other format don't have that problem. Unix has its own 2037 problem coming up, but by then most systems should be 64-bit which will obviate the problem there.
The problem was real, but companies spent several years working on solutions and for the most part everything was fixed prior to the big day.
I spent that New Year's Eve at my desk, as a computer consultant, waiting for customer calls of panic. We had almost no problems, partly because we had made sure all our systems were ready.
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knightshow
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:14 am |
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and I spent that time for the PC work... yes, if you had a PC with improper BIOS that had NOT been patched, or windows software before WIN95 (at least SOME of them), you were vulnerable.
It didn't match the hype, however.
As Mick mentioned, it was mostly the software that was vulnerable, and my job with CA software (computer associates) was to roll in the newer software that was Y2K compliant.
I do remember all the hype around it. Turned out due to good programmers working their tails off the year before and up to that moment, there was hardly ANY problems!
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:43 pm |
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Thank you for the correction gentlemen.
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