Karaoke Forums

As hinted at in my introduction, I said I was having difficulties with a venue owner, and was wondering how you would deal with this situation.

As a show, we are singer focused, we run a strict rotation, which we won't sing in as soon as we have six or more singers, and our song book is mainly customer requests (6000 songs no repeats) and supports everyone who is brave enough to come onto stage.

Personally, as a host, although I can sing, I chose songs that don't show off my voice on the whole and songs that tend not to be done on karaoke. (This is because I often only sing at the start of the show, when the venue is quiet, I'm also aware that my voice could put weaker singers off trying and we also have a strict rule that songs must not be repeated throughout the night, and I would hate to tell a customer they couldn't sing a song, because I had already done it). I'm also very "bouncy", clapping and dancing throughout the whole show, or running around the venue, making sure everyone feels welcome and understands how we run our show and that they are welcome to sing.

Through out the night, we run a fast rotation on average 13 singers per hour, so although at the start we introduce the show, with comical news stories and general jokes, once we have some singers in it’s all systems go, talking on the mic is minimal, call singer up, praise them, call next singer.

We joke and laugh and I often say that we are the "sunshine and light" because we welcome everyone. Because of this I have one of the largest followings in the area, which almost guarantees 6 singers at an eight a clock start. (I realise six singers may not sound like a lot to some, but we are in a heavily saturated area, mainly because of Joe Boggs and the 100,000 song computer show, and our prices are lowered to reflect the way of the industry).

However my following does consist of some vocally poor singers, which for some may be difficult listen to. . . (my other two venues, love them and their enthusiasm), however, and this is the problem, at this one venue (when the venue has recently changed hands), the new owner has decided to ban two of my regulars from singing after 10' O clock, and through rumours and instinct we think he is now going to ban a well loved, vocally poor, singer with learning difficulties.

The previous two aforementioned poor singers, have refused to come back, and all of our regulars which is about 20 singers are feeling nervous about this landlord, he doesn't discourage excessive drinking, and doesn't intervene in situations until they become a serious problem and rumours are flying around all over the place that he is looking for a new karaoke (which they are all horrified about).

The venue was once, a lively, friendly, small profit making establishment, where we worked two nights a week. Now, we are only working one night, the owner has replaced us with a poor show, which is cheaper but also brings in two very good karaoke singers, who don't buy drinks. The venue has an uncomfortable air about, and although profits are up, so is the police interest and all the regulars of the bar are slowly moving on elsewhere.

I've tried talking to the owner on various occasions, to no avail; the only response we get from him is that he is happy with the show. (Though I know he has contacted at least two other Karaoke's).

We are now struggling with a bar girl, who believes she should be allowed to sing along with every singer, and thinks that we are rude not to give her microphone behind the bar... (The other show lets her do this).

Every other venue loves us, and I suspect the reason this owner isn't so keen, is because he personally wants a cabaret show, at karaoke prices.

Sorry for the long post, but have you any suggestions

Personally I wouldn't continue to work in a place that pits me against another KJ. It sounds like the new owner is setting you up in a kind of "survival of the fittest" competition. And if you last through this round, you may not the next.

If you have a stable of singers you will be able to move your show regardless of area saturation. That's what all clubs are looking for. And what you should be looking for, and will find, is a club that's 100% behind you!

Start looking for a replacement for this toilet today. Life's too short and venues are plenty..

Exactly, lick your wounds & move on.

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I have to go along with the rest of the people here. Let the other KJs have this venue. If he keeps alienating customers who may be not as skilled as some then even the great singers will find another place...and you would rather that other place be you.

start looking for a better venue but ride this one to the end - if you don't have emails of all your regulars -use this time to make contacts in the event you do land another gig!!

If you don't need the man's money then cut him loose. This is obviously stressful for you and your customers and it does not need to be this way. Find a bar nearby...preferably just down the street and take your crowd there.

I do agree, make sure you have your customers emails or phone numbers.

Good Luck

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Marble I am so sorry to hear you have to deal with this situation. You sound like you run a terrific show.
I would also suggest trying to find another gig. I would hang on to what you have until like the others said you get contact info from your regulars. It sounds as if it is just a matter of time until he replaces you for someone cheaper from what you've said, so you might want to beat him to the punch. Good luck ! And let us know what happens.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

You will learn that most bar owners haven't a clue as to how to make money.

A mentally challenged person is protected by discrimination laws. That said the bar owner is protected by the same law.

Start looking for a new job. If you heard the rumors, it's probably true. They equate cheap with good. (KJs)

He will replace you with the first cheaper KJ he can find. Talk to the closest bar owner to him and take his crowd down the road. Don't feel bad about it. He cares nothing for you. He is worried/embarrassed about how the bad singer may reflect on him and his business.

DUMP him before he dumps you and take his crowd that you worked so hard to build with you. Do it now, don't wait another day. Don't look back. Consider it a lesson learned. Always be prepared to walk out on a jerk bar owner. He will ruin your reputation.

Thank you for all of your kind replies.

Frustratingly I do need the money, and although I have every e-mail and contact details for the regular singers, their are regulars to the pub not the karaoke who I have formed friendships with during the past months, sadly these great people will not be so easy to keep in touch with.

At the moment, my thoughts are similar to Jamkaraoke and whilst I look for a new venue I shall "ride this one to the end" or till until I get another booking, which ever comes first. I have always joked that I rather take money from someone I don't like, rather than someone I do.

However, I do realise I am set in my ways of what I believe is a good show, and to a certain degree my regular customers are conditioned by my way of thinking. There are certain things I refuse to change, anyone can sing, and how much they sing will always be fair. I'm loathed to change my system of rotation, because of it's consistency, and because it's always been done the same way (sing one, bring one, new singers filtered in old singer, new singer) but perhaps I should consider changing the order people sing, so that the night flows like a cabaret set, rather than a random songs in any order.

Perhaps I should host from the centre of the stage, rather than from behind the desk and spend more time introducing people when they come to the stage. Maybe
I should start putting in some of my show stoppers, towards the middle of the night and the end of the night, I personally think it would put people off, but I’ve never tried it and maybe it would raise the quality of performances, in the same manner that most people sing and perform better at competitions because they always want to be better than the singer before.

The main problem is not being able to talk to the owner, because if he left the control in my hands, I would advise he left everything for one month, allow the regulars to get used to all the changes, and the new clientele that he has brought in, (who on the surface do seem rough, but probably in a month would calm down) get used to the show. Then if the venue is still not busy enough for his liking, I would be able (now having the trust of all the customers) to introduce some quick games like go fetch in-between songs. I would also confidently be able to advertise the venue to new customers because after a month I would be able to say that the system won't be turned off at 10 because there are underage drinkers in the venue and that their hasn't been a fight in four weeks. I have a photographer, who comes down on occasion and I could invite him to come down and advertise that (most karaoke singer’s love having a professional photo taken.... it’s the ego ). It's just a shame the owner won't discuss things with me.

None the less, if I leave, or if the new owner is pushed from this venue, I will be posting this thread on my "customer only website" (which is the social community - bebo). My regulars would be in hysterics at the 6strings phrase
"Start looking for a replacement for this toilet today. Life's too short and venues are plenty.. "

Once again thank you for your comments, in situations like this it's good to have others thoughts, and at least by trying to write a non bias account of the situation I do realise that the new owner may be the root cause of the problem, for a while I was thinking it was solely me stuck in my ways, refusing to accept change.

Don't second guess what you are doing too much. Stay with what's working. And remember....

New owners almost always fail within six months to a year!

It's so nauseatingly true that I start looking for a new gig as soon as an establishment changes hands. The new guy always has these grand ideas and change things around the way they want it (seldom listening to their customers to see if it's what they want), take on way too much debt to buy the place, don't have the deep pockets to ride out the lean weeks, and go under.

New owners are always very hands on at first then they tend to ease up. If after 6 months he is still around he probably won't be micromanaging you as much. I'd hate to see you change your show to something less than it is now. I'd hang on to your old rules as long as you can.

I can't believe he is actually banning people from singing. What's that? He just lost 2 paying customers and doesn't care. It sounds more like he is more concerned about throwing his weight around than keeping customers. Who is he trying to impress?

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Marble

I'm sure you realize there are MANY ways to host a Karaoke show and MOST of them are RIGHT , there are only a few ways to run a bad show in my opinion.

What makes the differance between a GOOD show and an OK show is the amount of money coming across the register at the end of the night. A KJ can have the BEST DAM show in town with a loyal following all who are satisfied singers. But if the venue is NOT making money ....or enough money for the greedy owners... The show to THEM is a bust. And the bottom line is you are only as good as the owner ( AKA one hiring and paying you) says you are. Few things I learned

Most Owners --do not have a clue or care to about Karaoke and Singers ..just $$$$$
Bartenders can be your best friends or your WORST enemies .
You can't please all your singers all the time.
You know what you have but you don't know what you're getting into with a NEW venue.

I think an important part of getting people to sing Karaoke is to overcome thier fear. If a poor singer (or even one with learning disablities) can get up on stage and have a positive reaction from the crowd and the venue (or at least not too negative) then it shows the place is a tolerant fun loving place. This gets other people to try karaoke, and some of them will be repeat patrons if they have a good time.

Every singer is going to bomb ocasionally and sometimes that horrible singer just is not doing the right songs for their skills. I remember a well liked but truely bad singer that has been visiting some of the same karaoke shows for about 6 years.

The venue where I first heard him sing has since closed, and another bar that took some of the karaoke crowd from that place never really accepted him (mainly due to some discouragement from the then KJ and crowd who had a somewhat stuffy reputation).

That KJ has since moved on, and I have taken over the same bar's Karaoke show. I now welcome that "poor" singer to my venues and he feels welcome there. My crowds average 2-3 times larger than the previous KJ because of this non-exclusive attitude.

He still can't really sing (but has gotten better), but at least he feels welcome and that feeling makes more people come to the show, many of whom are good singers.

People dont go to a bar to feel bad, and even seeing someone else treated poorly makes them less likely to return. Preventing someone from singing, for "quality" reasons has always been a bad choice in my book.

He is trying to practice discrimination of a mentally challenged person. He doesn't want them in his bar. Or any so called bad singers.

DUMP HIM, NOW> HE'S A JERK. HE WILL MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. He doesn't care about your reputation. If you let him discriminate against any of your (crowd) singers, it will look like you are doing it. Can you afford that reputation? You can't afford not to quit.

Start looking for a new job. His attitude will have him out of business before long.

Pardon me for skipping the gist of your post, but I truly wish to compliment you. It sounds as though you run your show like a true professional ( of course, this is because I do the same ) and I wish to compliment you...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

sorry for sidetracking away from my own topic, but i'd like to thank JoeChartreuse for his comment, and stress how much i love his signature "no contests, no divas, just a good time".... I been wondering how to word those same thoughts for a while.

On a more serious note, I have obtained reference from all of my other venues this week, but i'm back with this owner of Friday and I will keep you all informed of the situation.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to comment.

Sorry to bump a thread, but I thought it would be a nice idea, to keep everyone who has contributed their thoughts updated on the situation.

We are still at the venue, although I have heard nothing as to how the other karaoke company is doing, there are rumours he is looking to replace both of us. Despite a really good two Fridays, the venue was busy, as was the karaoke and I’m assuming the bar take reflected this, last Friday there was once again another fight.

This fight, caused one of my regulars to seriously panic (he's highly excitable... the sort that will cry at any slow sad songs, but his heart is in the right place) and the rest of my regulars to hide behind my equipment and a few braver ones in front.

As bar fights go, this one was dealt with well, (although steps could have been taken beforehand to prevent it even starting) and really wasn't that serious, however with the reputation the venue is getting and a police crack down in the area, the police were looking at the CCTV footage as we left.

The gossip at the moment is horrendous, my regulars are complaining about the venue (not the karaoke) and it appears that a lot of the other bar owners are talking about this venues management.

Before the fight broke out, I have been running a small experiment, with the choice of songs I sing... choosing upbeat, challenging numbers rather than my "you've never heard of this, it's got a good tune but all it really does it prove - not cabaret" songs. I have doubled up on one song a customer wanted to do, but the quality of singers' songs has improved. I'm still unsure if this is chance, or if what I sing as a host does make a difference.

Thought i'd give you a further update....

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/ ... ticle.html

Its a shame this has happened, but at least I know that when I look back on this venue in four years time, it will bring back a lot of memories.

Dollar says the staffers made off with the money themselves and are using the "robbery" as a cover story.

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