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Lonman
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:20 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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vbu2c5 @ Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:33 am wrote: ml_texas, very eloquently put and I do agree with a majority of what you said. I really think this texting craze is contributing to this generations horrible spelling ability. I see several other words in forums that are frequently used incorrectly such as, ( there, they're, their ) ( base, bass ) and of course ( loose, lose ). You can visually verify this in some of the forum talk as well. Texting 'language' is messing alot of the people up as far as proper speaking & spelling. Quote: If you and several other people on this forum could take a little constructive criticism, please use paragraphs when writing longer posts, it helps in being able to read them. Thank you, Rudy.
This could be said for many posters here. Too many do not use caps when starting a new paragraph or use any kind of punctuation making run on sentences look like they are never ending. I would say at the VERY least use the spell check but it seems to be gone right now.
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GeminiMALE40
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:32 am |
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:07 pm Posts: 1504 Images: 0 Location: Salina,KS Been Liked: 64 times
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ml_texas @ Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:44 am wrote: Because of my career as a teacher, I have made liguistics and syntax a matter of examination and study. What I have found in regard to the younger crowd is, more often than not, profanity is used because of very limited vocabularies in young adults. Apparently, young people are not equiped with large enough vocabularies to be able to express themselves without the use of profanity. In fact, since we all know that the English language is an evolving language, many of the words my generation and older generations would never use publicly has become standard gramatical English to many. One of the most disgusting things I see is the number of people who do not know which "their, there, or they're" to use in their writing. The other problem is not knowing which "to, too, two" to use when communicating. No wonder, many younger people have trouble getting jobs. Their ability to write is lost in the fact that they have limited vocabularies. As an English teacher, I have argued (on the state level even) that low scores in every content area of study suggests that kids can not read. They can't read because they have limited vocabularies. It does not mean they are not intelligent, it just means that the education system has failed over the last 15 to 20 years to teach solid vocabulary and spelling to kids. No wonder, the only way to express themselves is to stand at a mic and yell f-bombs for everyone to hear. I often tell young people they loose their crediblity as soon as they begin to use profanity. I never take anyone too serious when the best they can do is curse. I like intelligent discourse when engaging conversation with individuals of any age. It has become my goal to try to change the habits of as many kids as I have come through my classroom each year. I want them to be able to speak without use of slang, or curse words. Then, as one generation finds its way to better speaking and higher standards of language, other s will follow. That is just my two cents worth and I realize my opinion is only important to me! Thanks for letting this English teacher from Texas rant and rave for a minute! Have a great weekend!--Mike
I would have to disagree with this statement. Young people want to fit in and since profanity is widely accepted..its just part of it. plus parents now days dont seem to care what their kids do and dont teach them when they vare young..so therefore they grow up thinking its ok
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DJ Swirl
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:52 am |
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:53 am Posts: 224 Location: Cincinnati/NKY Been Liked: 0 time
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The internet has been the bane of the English language. Texting is an extension of that. As someone with a Masters in English, it's like a dagger right through my heart every time I see someone put an A in "definitely" or otherwise misuse grammar, spelling and syntax in the manner mentioned by others in this thread. These are all very simple things everyone SHOULD be learning in the TWELVE YEARS they are in school. Yet here we are. Welcome to the internet age.
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sidewinder
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:08 am |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:49 pm Posts: 1250 Been Liked: 0 time
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It's also a lack of respect. Students don't respect their parents or teachers. So they grow up and nobody gets respect. It's the loser generation
We have to depend on them for our Social Security. That should frighten you enough.
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BlueRose
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:33 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:17 pm Posts: 294 Location: Michigan Been Liked: 0 time
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Quote: Thanks for letting this English teacher from Texas rant and rave for a minute!
I totally agree with you, please keep up the good work! If more of our teachers had your dedication maybe we wouldn’t have all this verbal air pollution.[font=Verdana] [/font]
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karyoker
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:54 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:43 pm Posts: 6784 Location: Fort Collins Colorado USA Been Liked: 5 times
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One of my pet peeves.. If we are at point a and need something at point b.. We TAKE it over there. We dont BRING it over there. Now if I am at point b and you are at point a I will ask you to bring it to point a. These younguns get to planning and I dont have a clue where we are
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Karen K
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:03 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:56 am Posts: 2621 Location: Canuck, eh. Been Liked: 0 time
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I LOVE this discussion. I transcribe medical reports for a living...and have done legal work as well. Let me just say that even with the highest GPA medical school graduates, I am put in the position of creating something intelligent from what they are saying. So it is not just kids. If you ask the average (not the most uneducated or most educated) person to define the different usages of the following, most are at a complete loss: effect, affect; lay, lie; too, to, two; been, bin; there, their, they're; whom, who; whose, who's...it goes on and on.
I'm not sure what the solution is except perhaps a redirection of the education system. Sadly most ESL (English as a second language) persons are more prone to correct usage of the above than someone whose native language is english.
I agree - texting is a major culprit; computers that correct for us are another (I'm guilty - type the same thing incorrectly a few time, make an autocorrect for it); spelling and grammar check software that correct the most blatant errors creates laziness.
It isn't going to change any time quickly, sad but true.
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Lonman
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:24 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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I hear you Karen.
Then you have words like
Resume - the paper you send prospective employers
Resume - continue what you were doing
pronounced completely differently, yet I have watched people sing the pronunciation for one, when it was supposed to be the other.
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lordairgtar
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:33 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:50 pm Posts: 992 Location: Muskego, Wisconsin Been Liked: 0 time
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I don't know how to get my computer to make an accent mark over the last "e" in the word describing the job application paper, so written on the PC it's going to resemble the word for continue.
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Lonman
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:44 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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lordairgtar @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:33 pm wrote: I don't know how to get my computer to make an accent mark over the last "e" in the word describing the job application paper, so written on the PC it's going to resemble the word for continue.
Well you could even just use an apostrophe
resume'
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homeplateBG
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:54 pm |
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It all depends on the venue and the audience. I did a racous show on Saturday where I didn't even turn over my rotation until midnight. Anything goes at my shows. I use a lot of bathroom humor and make a lot of references to sex, drugs and rock 'n roll. I know the line well and tip toe on it all evening. Did I mention I didn't turn over my rotation until midnight?
I've had these kinds of issues with individuals, more about the volume than anything else, and it was always older gentlemen asking me to turn the volume down. Same thing I tell anyone with entitlement issues ... We do karaoke shows from 9 -1:30, if that doesn't work, there's the door. Not going to cater to every individual whine. You start doing that and it will never stop. Set the guidelines and stick to them ... always. Deliver a consistent product and people will buy it (if it's any good, that is).
I will not censor or judge!!!! I am not God.
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sidewinder
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:26 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:49 pm Posts: 1250 Been Liked: 0 time
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At one bar down the road they have stationed a bouncer to look over everyone coming in. If they look like they have been drinking somewhere else they do not gain entry. This bar is a big trouble bar catering to the 30 and under. So when they can't get in that bar because they look to out of it, they are coming to the closet one down the road and that happens to be where I'm playing.
We are getting the other bars drunk or nearly drunk rejects.
We have no bouncer checking age limits at the door. And the bar owner when he is there is sitting there drinking.
The bartender is giving away free drinks right under his drunken nose. Probably too busy looking at he fun bags. The result is he tried to break up a fight between a boyfriend/girlfriend last week and got smashed in the head with a full beer bottle. This is not just happening at one place. There are 2 right now that lately have way too many VIPs. Not dives.
One is a national franchise. Some of the problem there is they let the hired help stay after work. Then their bartenders/friends don't shut them off when they should and their boyfriends/girlfriends take on some extra privledges as well. Nobody wants to be the bad guy. The result is..nobody gets shut off until it's too late.
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DJ Swirl
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:27 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:53 am Posts: 224 Location: Cincinnati/NKY Been Liked: 0 time
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Y'know, sidewinder, I could really give a crap less what you do, but if this thing about the drunks, the bartenders and the owner bother you that much, you should cut your losses and go.
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Bill H.
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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:39 am |
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:23 pm Posts: 1173 Location: PNW USA Been Liked: 0 time
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Karen K @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:03 am wrote: I LOVE this discussion.
Back home yet Karen? How did it go?
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Karen K
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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:07 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:56 am Posts: 2621 Location: Canuck, eh. Been Liked: 0 time
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Thanks for asking, Bill. As a PNW'er, the stifling temperature (it was actually 115 degrees one day) was a bit much. Oh, add a lot of very persistent flies, clouds of the driest dust you've ever seen, and the constant noise of revving bike motors - just a tad overwhelming. Talk about ear fatigue. It was a great experience - Kid Rock, Kellie Pickler, Dierks Bentley, Z Z Top, Foghat (did a meet & greet with them - nice guys), Lynyrd Skynyrd, Puddle of Mudd, Three Doors Down, Stained, The Guess Who (and more I'm not remembering right now) - all played on the big stage at the Buffalo Chip. Hubby's band impressed a lot of the right people. Did try to sing karaoke one day but it turned out to be more of a comedy routine with some singing mixed in...shame, too, because the song selection was great, and Mackie provided all the sound equipment.
Twelve of us covered 2500 miles (there and back) and we all know each other a lot better now ... Hey, the Romans have nothing on The Buffalo Chip campground - anything goes ... and it does!
Very happy to be back home.
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SingyThingy
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:04 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:48 am Posts: 206 Location: N.Y. Been Liked: 27 times
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I agree with those who are saying profanity rules should be show-specific.
I personally couldn't care less about swearing in songs, but also don't see how under certain circumstances omitting a few words would really have that drastic of an effect on someones 3 minutes of fame.
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Rising_Phoenix
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:51 pm |
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:43 pm Posts: 240 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Been Liked: 0 time
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I personally do not care for swear words, but I also believe in live and let live. If someone sings a song laced with salty language, I roll my eyes, but realize that its just the nature of the beast. I also hope that if such songs are sung, that the performers are mature enough to consider who may be in the audience and choose their music appropriately, especially if there are youngsters in the audience.
Unfortunately, our society tends to be permissive (and depending on the crowd) almost encouraging in the use of profanity. Understandably, a lot of us like to be shocked when possible (hence the popularity of some so-called reality and talk shows--- Jerry Springer comes to mind). Choosing to sing a song simply because it has gratuitous profanity is a lot like going to the movies and deciding what you want to see based strictly on the rating (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17) rather than content (imho). It almost seems like profanity is used in music simply because its easier to shock (and thus entertain?) an audience rather than compose good quality music which shouldn't have to depend on profanity to get its message across.
Just my $.02 worth. Thanks for letting me rant.
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jamkaraoke
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:30 am |
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Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:54 am Posts: 3485 Location: New Jersey , USA Been Liked: 0 time
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This topic just reminded me about a situation last Thursday ...normally anything is allowed to be sung , but this one kid gets up and sings this rap song in which every other word was XXX. ( can't think of the name of it) but any way after the first minute it became OLD ..the laughter dissapeared at the same time a group cam in with YOUNGER children ( granted it was about 10pm ) but the owners son ran up and made me PULL the plug on the song . .... The singer was not too happy but what are you going to do ?
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ericlater
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:33 am |
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Phoenix,
This subject has been hashed and re-hashed many, many times. Your comments about movie ratings, however, caught my attention. I've been wondering what a society can do when a few (read "THE MEDIA") dictates, for good or bad, what we should accept as the "norm".
Consider the following:
- A young, quite intelligent, girl of 19 who works with me is unfamiliar with the word "modesty". Further consider that too many young girls today think nothing of: oral sex, booty dancing, baring their boobs on YOU BOOB, or in "girls go wild" videos, etc.
- young girls start and have savage fights that they intentionally capture on vidoe and share with the world
- For centuries, comedians made a living without using profanity; today few avoid it!
- The period of greatest success for Hollywood preceded the days of nudity, vulgarity and extreme violence
So, today, the rights of those who want act in an obscene or lewd manner or use vulgarities supercedes the rights of all others. And those whose rights are being trampled upon are told to "be an adult". So, in other words, those who act in a vulgar manner or speak obscenities are the adults and the rest of us are....????
AFTERTHOUGHT----I don't have a problem "restraining" myself from public displays of stupidity of any type. Are there those on this forum who have a problem avoiding vulgar language or lewd acts? And can't we keep obscenities out of our karaoke catalogs, if we really wanted to, and still have a successful show. I've attnded too many successful shows that avoid obscenities to belief it can't be done!!
PS I don't believe that the problem was caused by the internet and texting. I do believe, however, that both have exasperated the situation. Lastly, I always marvel at the vocabulary people used, particularly in letters, during the 19th century and early part of the last century. I love reading documents/letters from the time of the Civil War. We're losing our language and respect for it, as a result of several reasons!!
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:23 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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ericlater @ Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:33 am wrote: And can't we keep obscenities out of our karaoke catalogs, if we really wanted to, and still have a successful show.
Yep!
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