Karaoke Forums

I've read some threads up here about people who speak of some of the 60s and 70s more obscure things, could someone cite some examples of things you guys wish were available on karaoke?

I'd be interested, since there are only so many Josh Groban albums to cover;)

Thanks
TH

This is a song request board in the Sound Choice forum.
http://www.soundchoice.com/cgi-bin/ulti ... =forum;f=5

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As I have said before, I could really use some Richard Cheese. There are several singers who keep asking about it, and this guy's ultra-lounge renditions of the karaoke classics would get done almost nightly if I had any.

It wouldn't be hard for a label to work a few tracks up since I believe the majors have the rights to this material already. There's no production or backup vocals either... just a small jazz ensemble.

He's come up in the SC request forums before so I know it's not just my room.

Manfred Mann's "For You"! Whoo Hoo!

There are tons of stuff that I'd love released. I'd need my own website to cover 'em all! !

Thanks for asking!

I will post my book--uh, my list--here later, when I have more time. It'll probably be a l-o-n-g one because there are so many songs I want...

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methinks she's going to give out a LOT of Alan Parsons Project songs! ! (which I highly am behind!)

Thanks!

Also welcome comments here, if allowed.

I am also wondering....to most of you, is it more important to have actual graphic, karoke discs (with the lyrics, etc) OR....are you more concerned with just getting the tracks with guide lead vocals, then back vocals only, then the instrumental version?


Thanks
Tom

Guide vocals are geared more for home users trying to learn songs. The minority of kj's I would bet actually use them in shows.
For me I just want accurate representation of songs with real instruments, not sequenced or played with a midi-synth & an instrument pack. The lyrics, in an easy to read format, graphics are not a big deal. If it is a quick start song where vocals are immediate, then a guide strum of the key & a click in, not just a blind start. Background vocals when they were on the original song, however there are songs that have some 3 & 4 part harmony on occasion & would be nice to be able to have these either in a solo singer where the background harmonies are still there and a separate version where no vocals.

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Thanks, great info.

For the record, synth and midi programming can sound as real as the real thing. It's really the pilot, not the plane. Too many "programmers" use cheesy sounds, have a low respect level for karoke, and just want to get it done. When done with the finest sound libraries and with true musicians doing the programming, and with the addition of live instruments to the recipe, the results are what you hear on most hit records. There is of course no substitute for a real sax or guitar solo, but things like drums and keyboards, and even strings in most cases, can be programmed wonderfully nowadays. Remember that programming isn't a question of typing in some kind of code or notes to the computer, the computer is just acting as a big tape recorder, recording what is played. Some people play so poorly that after they record the performance they tell the computer to "correct" the performance (called quantizing) and that's where a lot of the robotic silly sounding stuff happens. If you don't correct, or at least over correct, there is no difference between pressing "RECORD" on a tape machine or pressing it on a computer. Just thought I'd clear that up.

So the actual "Lead vocal" tracks aren't that important to most of you? Just the backing harmonies? And of course a cue of some kind for dead start songs (like "Hey Jude") ...interesting regarding the guide tracks. I know that finding the right lead singer on a karoke track is often difficult, while having excellent backing vocals (which are on just about everything) is much easier to do (though they can take hours if it's a heavy harmony song).

Thanks for the info and I'll keep watching the thread. As a karaoke producer, I would like to know that I am spending many hours on these things to give people what they indeed want.

Best
Tom

I know what midi can sound like, played in bands for years & engineered sound for live & recordings & haven't heard a good midi sound to date. ESPECIALLY in the drums, I can tell a canned kit in a blink, there's just no feeling to the sound. SC uses more drum sequencers than they used to in the beginning, really hurting their sound quality overall.



Not sure what you mean by 'lead vocal' part. If it's karaoke format, then no, that shouldn't be in the recording but the back up singing/harmonies should be.

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You've either had the radio turned off for literally years, or just are unlucky;)

Midi is a form of control, not sound, as you know. Midi can control lighting, as you know from being on the road.

If you are saying there are no SOUNDS that are comparable to the real thing, you just haven't heard what's out there nowadays. The pianos, drums and strings, woodwinds...the stuff is insane. I had a flute player from the symphony in the other day doing a sax part. I played him a flute solo done with one of the high end libraries and asked if he wanted to replace it by playing live with his flute. He listened again, and then said...."Why?"



TH

Midi sequenced/synth sound. Not literally a midi sound. I know it's a controller.



I go into a pro music shop at least once a wekk to play with new toys. Still work running sound with bands when I can & do studio engineering when I can. Yes they can 'sound' like real instruments, but there is where it ends, there is no feeling in the sounds, just a sterile (even with effects) clean sound. Not like a real guitar player that may have a slight bend and waver in a note, or the bass player that does a little slap beat on a note in a simple riff, or the drums (biggest giveaway), all hits sound equal, the volume can be adjusted to sound lighter or heavier, but the sound is constant, no variation in tone, like on the snap of a snare. Different places on the snare will yield a different sound, with a canned set, the snare is very predictable.
These are just light examples.
Do you have any samples of your work?

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PS ...regarding drums, it's really not true.

Drums, of all things, have to be programmed right. The sounds are not a problem. The latest libraries, no, you would not be able to hear the difference. Real drummers can't, so I know you wouldn't;). The sounds are that good. You have to remember that REAL drummers are designing the top end libraries. They are playing the samples on the best kits in the world, in the best studios in the world. If you can't program it well, they can't help you there. And you also have to know how to mix.

The complexity of the latest drum sample libraries is tremendous. The best of the best are scary, and often win out over REAL DRUMMERS on tracks. Just had it happen in fact. Played the real drum track, then the programmed track, and there wasn't one person in the control room that didn't think the programmed track wasn't the real one (it was a blind test).

Why? Because a lot of the best libraries are recorded in the finest studios in the world. A real drummer is nice, but one doesn't often have access to those studios, at 1500.00 a day. So the libraries offer you drums recorded in a manner that the guy at his house with his own "drum studio" can't compete with.

In addition, what's really funny, is that nowadays on sessions one of the most used tools is a little bit of software called BEAT DETECTIVE. They take a real drummer, he plays the track, and then....get this...they spend hours editing the real drummers performance so that everything is perfectly on the beat. Might as well use a drum machine. That's why all the heavy rock and alternative records sound like their drummers are Gods. Hours of BEAT DETECTIVE;). It has become the drum equivalent of AUTOTUNE on vocals. So even with real drummers, you end up with an unreal performance, and this is on all the hits you hear every day.

TH

That's just my point, whatever happened to real musicians? There is no real feeling in music anymore. The new music today sounds so processed, over layered & 'technically' perfect - the beatmatcher software, autotune software, pitchshifters, no one has to be really good players now days, the gear does it all for them anymore.
Gees, get a click track & keep up playing & what comes out, go with it.

But again, I ask, do you have a sample of your work to listen to?

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Well first off, let me say this as a guitarist, there is NO WAY I would use guitar samples via midi. Some people do it, but it's pretty lame. I play all my parts, and all the bass parts, and any brass we use real people (brass still pretty much sucks in the sampling world, at least for rock....symphonic is another story). So I absolutely agree with you on that. Playing the guitar tracks in is my favorite part of doing karaoke stuff;). And yes, same for bass. There are some good bass samples out there, but yeah, it is not like a real bass.

Regarding the snare thing, see that's how sample libraries used to be. The ones today have sometimes 14 different velocity layers on just ONE snare. So it doesn't just get softer, it changes the sample it plays to actually a SOFT sample. In the old days yes, you're right, that's exactly what it did...it got softer in volume but the tone didn't change. That's because computers just didn't have the memory to deal with these MASSIVE libraries. The drums now have mics (and samples for) EVERYTHING. That means mic under the snare, mic on top of the snare.....kick drum bleeding into the overhead mics (or you can turn that off). Room mics, overheads. It honestly gives you so many options that your eyes start glazing over. I just set it as near as I can to the approximate sound on the real record and go. You can never get it exact, but you can get close. The library that does the symphonic stuff (woodwinds, strings , etc) cost about 12,000.00. So you won't find it in the music stores. And even it has it's limitations, but you just use it's strong points and avoid the weak ones. You hire real guys for things like sax solos, trumpet solos, etc.

Tom

Couple things. I grew up in the Sixties and started playing in 62 (guitar, piano, mainly guitar). To this I still love all the Sixties stuff I grew up with, am as close to an expert on Beatles stuff (musically) as I guess you'll find, and am firmly in agreement with you on the quality of all that stuff.

Oddly though, I love all the new stuff too. Probably because I do it, and know how hard it is to get that stuff to sound so perfect. I think what happened was, in the beginning, all that software was used to actually correct mistakes in an otherwise good performance. But now, people (young people) have gotten so used to it that I don't think they'd know what to think if they heard a track's tempo ebbing and flowing like 60s tracks used to. Or if harmonies were off key (as they often were in the Sixties and 70s). Their ears are used to "perfect" now and that's a reality. I did a karoke release of Hannah Montanna and didn't use Autotune and all the other tricks, it wouldn't sound like the record. It would sound like something was wrong with my track;) That's how crazy it is.

But I think there's room for that, it's OK. It's OK to have both. The technology allows us to be as perfect....OR ....as IMPERFECT as we want. Like you said, we can send a click out from the computer and let it go. And we often do, especially on big band things, etc.

Most of the stuff I've been doing the last year as been in the modern vein, so you are not going to hear anything very natural sounding (Avril Lavigne, Hannah, etc) but I've also done some really nice Sarah Brightman and Josh Groban releases. I do what's on the plate to get done. Also did a great cover of Survivor's "Eye of the Tiger" recently....for Hal Leonard, I don't know where you get it, maybe online.

You might get a kick out of seeing my band's website....from years ago when I recorded at Abbey Road.

It's here:

www.aerovons.com

As far as what I'd want realeased, there 's still great material from some of the big bands of the 70's that hasn't been done:

Examples:

Three Dog Night: Brickyard Blues, Sure As I'm Sittin' Here, Let Me Serenade You

McCartney: Venus and Mars/Rock Show, Blue Bird, Richard Cory, Picassos Last Words, Magneto and Titanium Man, Spirits of Ancient Egypt, You Gave Me the Answer

Chicago: Happy Man

Elton John: Any of his old stuff (Rock of the Westies and earlier)

Save the Beer - Faust and Lewis
Any Gal of Mine - Cletus T Judd

Temple of the Dog - all of it (I know about Hunger Strike on the RSZ disc)
Sinatra - The way you look tonight (existing versions are horrible)

OOOOO Temple Of The Dog - Say Hello To Heaven!!!!!!! YES YES YES!!!!!!

Also
ALice In Chains :
Sea Of Sorrow
Down In A Hole
Sickman
I Stay Away
Heaven Beside You

Soundgarden :
Rusty Cage
Jesus Christ Pose
Outshined
The Day I Tried To Live

WOuld LOVE (also my crowd) to have these produced!!!!!

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