Karaoke Forums

You may remember last year I accepted a gig at a bar on Thursday's simply because they made an offer I couldn't refuse. Three weeks ago the bar got sold and new owners came in making changes, actually mostly for the better. Of course around here, once school starts w slow dwon for a couple of weeks. They bought the bar right as school started, but rather than check the books for the last several months, they saw "karaoke doens't work here, let's have 80's night!". Pflugerville is a litlle podunk town sorta like in the movie "footloose".

(now a sidenote-they didn't bother to tell me about all of this. They posted flyers in the bar. I happened to notice the flyer and decided i would announce whatever they had going on..that is until I realized it was replaing me! I confronted the owners and they told me they were changing karaoke to Wednesday and I was still gonna run it. I told them no I wasn't 'cuz I got stuff to do that night.)

80's night was a BOMB (not "the bomb") and aparently the new karaoke guy is horrible, at least that's what I'm told from the singers that come to my other shows. I stopped by the bar last night around 11pm and they were already closed and locked up! Tonight I heard they were moving karaok back to Thursday and wanted me to come back. Well, I am pretty happy not working Thurday nights, and since the only reason I took the gig last time is because it is litterally right around the corner from the house I don't think I really want to go back.
What do you think? Should I tell them I'll come back for a higher price or just let them suffer for their stupidity? I hate to sound conceited, but I get offers to play other bars at least once a month and i always turn them down.

_________________
All work and no play make Homer something something

then dahlin, provided it wont impact on your pocket, tell him where to shove his offer

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I would put my prices up significantly more and accept. It will show him who's in the driving seat here and that he's going to pay for ***ing you around one way or the other.

If ever I am offered a gig I don't particularly fancy, I always quote an over inflated price. I'm not fussed if they don't accept, but if they do then great. I always use that cash to spoil the family for the weekend.

If you are fine not working that night & they want you back & you don't mind working it, YEP the price just went up $50 minimum - if they don't want to pay it, then you still have your night off, no skin off your nose!!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

After leaving all the emotions out of it, it really all depends upon whether it's in your own best interests to do so. From what you say here it sounds like it's not.

It also depends on their approach. I wouldn't even consider it unless the new owner makes the effort to contact you directly. No third party intermediary telling you to come in and talk to perhaps save a little face. This is to judge how serious he is more than anything else. But it also sets the tone of your relationship a little more in your favor.

As I've often said before, new owners usually fail within six months to a year. They just don't understand how difficult it is to make ends meet, and because of the purchase almost always have a higher debt load than the previous folks did, making their job even harder. So keep that in mind also.

If he’s willing to continue the deal that was previously “too good to refuse”, maybe that should be good enough.

Your point was made; it may be wiser to take advantage of it than to blow it for a petty pride issue. It’s just business.

Good pay and close to home sounds pretty sweet.


That's my opinion.

_________________
Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

It would at the least be interesting to see how much they will offer you to come back. I'm with Lon, they should at least give you $50 more a gig. If you really could careless if you get the gig back or not I'd say $100 more.

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Thanks for all the feed back guys and gals. I think I am prolly gonna tell them "Thanks, but no thanks". I wasn't really upset at the way it all went down at first, but the more I hear my singers talk to me about it and how "wrong" it was, I start to see their point. I don't hold grudges and I'd like to see their bar succeed because my bar is one street over and people walk back and forth between the two all the time. I'l'l keep y'all updated if anythign changes.

_________________
All work and no play make Homer something something

To be candid, you can get all puffed up like a spurned schoolgirl, or you can be the bigger person and approach it in a businesslike manner.I wholeheartedly agree! They messed up big time by not giving you the initial respect and courtesy of asking you about changing karaoke to another day of the week. They just assumed you were available and would agree. Perhaps they've learned their lesson.

But I wouldn't chase after the gig. They know where you are and how to reach you if indeed they want to offer you Thursday nights again. I don't know that I would hold their feet to the fire over this and demand more money. But I would make them sign a contract. For long-term karaoke shows, I sign a 13-week contract that automatically renews under the same terms for another 13 weeks unless it's canceled in writing at each term's expiration. Should they want out before then they would be required to pay you until the 13-week period was up.

No doubt they'll balk at this and say you didn't have a contract with the previous owner. You can come back with the less-than-businesslike way they "informed" you about the change to 80's night and you are protecting yourself from that.

It's interesting how many KJs don't approach their business dealings in a businesslike manner. Bars sign contracts all the time from their linen service and alarm service to their soft drink and carbonic gas supplier. If they don't want to sign a contract with you, it would indicate to me that you're only a stopgap until something else comes along.

Good luck!

_________________
[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Point taken on the contracts, but I prefer to take people at their word, especially when it's not my lifeblood under negotiation. Again, karaoke is a fun thing for me, not a business and thus I treat it as such. I definitely understand contracts for those who run it as thier source of income. I was at that particular location about a year with not contract. My other locations which I do two shows a week I have been at for going on two years. Another gig I did I was at for about two years and the original gig I did was god knows how long! Maybe 10 years!
Bottom line for me is that karaoke is not a bottom line business. If I lost al my gigs tomorrow I'd still pay the bills, eat at nice restaurants, drive nice trucks, have a nice boat, have a nice house and afford to buy my wife the things she wants. It's a respect issue as well as a convenience issue for me. Still, thanks again for your input.

_________________
All work and no play make Homer something something

Id make them sign a contract BECAUSE of the respect issue. Obviously they didnt respect you or your skills or contributions. They took u to be a throw-away item, treated you as something less than professional.

They CLEARY demonstrated they are NOT TO BE TRUSTED AND Will NOT AND DO NOT RESPECT YOU.

So NOW if they really want you its going to be ALL BUSINESS. I have to complelty agree on the contract issue here---as these people CLEARLY CANNOT BE TRUSTED. They've demonstrated that to you. Now if they reall want you they have to do it on YOUR TERMS.

AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE CLEAR THAT YOU AND ONLY YOU CONTROL THE KARAOKE or they will be demanding you do this and that and have people cut in the rotations and you only play such and such music.

Sorry they had thier chance.

Now if they want you its CONTRACT ONLY.

Then you'll see just how much they really want you.

_________________
"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I have a similar story. I've been doing Weds night Karaoke for a place since about Feb of this year. Its basically on a high traffic area with lots of other resturaunts and bars etc right next to the largest university in the state. Things were going really great up until a couple weeks after the spring session ended.. which i expected. School came back but things have still been a little slow, so for the last 6 weeks i've been hearing constant whining from management and the owner. The owner even decided to renegotiate my nightly pay $50 lower unless they break $xxxx.xx in sales for the night.

Three weeks ago, the owner calls me and asks if i can start DJ'ing Saturday nights because the current DJ "played Jamaican music and scared off 5 tables of people". I however had another gig lined up to start already, but I liked working in the bar by the campus because sometimes its kind of fun and figured Saturdays would be a blast. I tell him that I'll see what i can do and get someone to fill my previous gig for me and call him back.

So I figure its all set, 2 weeks go by and the friday before I'm supposed to start, the Texts me saying that "(managers name) said you were coming in this saturday? That wasnt a definite thing, i found out i have a contract with my current DJ". The thing that really irked me was that he pretended like its all my fault and i was supposed to cancel everything and just hang out "in case" he needed me, which is BS, he was just playing stupid and let the contract thing slip out.

Easily enough I just went and started doing my original Sat night but come last Weds I go in and run a show that night. Not packed but a few people were there singing and such.. The owner was in, I said something to him about the new signs they got and he just mumbles "yea.." and ignores me the rest of the night. I pack up and get ready to go, the manager hands me a check and says.. "were gonna take a break from karaoke for a while and try something else"

Its my fault that I didnt get contracts and stuff, but hey, everything is a learning experience. I like the OP like to take people's word on things too. In the last year its bit me about 5 times, once at a wedding where they talked me into staying 3 extra hours and they would get me money later (the bride worked with my girlfriend), that never happened. I feel much like you do in my case. Offended they would drop it without telling you until the very last minute. Betrayed they doubted you and what you brought to the place, etc. I made concessions on playing for a reduced rate during the slow season too and they didnt even consider that before letting it go. Honestly, if they asked me to come back I might still do it but they pay me by the month, in advance and oh by the way $100 more a night.

Funny thing in my case though is a larger venue right next door tried karaoke at the same day and time as my show and it failed. I should go next door and see if they want to start it up. Course I told a few people over the last few days and I think i already got a good lead on a place to go for weds that could be really good.

All that said, I completely agree with you. I know bar owners have to run a business but they start pinching pennies in the wrong area without having a clue what their really doing. I hate being the one in the pinch.

Since we’re sharing a’hole bar-owner stories… allow me. This was my first and only experience at a steady gig, I just like to do parties/picnics and such. I'm sure you guys who do will find a few things I did wrong here.

I replaced a steady DJ at a dive bar very-close to home cause he didn’t want to add Saturday to the steady Friday nights there. (In retrospect, I think he knew something I didn’t know). I knew a few of the people who worked and went there, it was right down the street, and I thought it’d be kinda fun.

Just a little note that the city did a lot to revive the downtown area and neighborhood bars were hurting, lucky if they could get one decent night a week.

Anyways, Friday nights were fine, but Saturdays were really dead, so being “Mr Niceguy“ here, I thought I’d cut them a break until we’d see if business would increase with a DJ/KJ there. There were nights when I’d charge a whole $20 cause the place would be dead… I’d just put music on and sit there talking to the bartender. I left all the heavy stuff there from Fridays, so it took about five minutes to set up and get started.

Oh, the owner LOVED me… I was his bestest friend for doing that, I’d have a job for life according to him.

Just a note about the owner… he was rarely there in the evening when I’d be there, and when he was it was a nightmare; he was always drunk and thought that the DJ was there to entertain him only, and to heck with what the customers wanted to hear, but since he wasn’t usually there, it wasn’t usually a problem.

Well, after a few months of dong Saturdays for near nothing, I shoulda just dumped it officially, BUT NO… THAT WOULD BE TOO SMART OF ME, and I didn’t want to disappoint my new “buddy” the owner.

All very unwise on my part.

So… I’d just call the bar before I came in, and if nobody was there, I’d just not come, and if people showed up, she’d call me, and I could get there and have music playing in fifteen minutes of hanging up the phone.

Well, one Saturday night I called, she said it was dead, she’d call if people showed up.

About fifteen minutes later she calls… owner showed up drunk as a skunk with a couple buddies, so I rush down there.

He and a couple of his buddies, maybe four other patrons… oh, was he pissed that I wasn’t there… I think it had something to do with his buddies being there and he was embarrassed or something. He always blamed the lack of business on everyone else, usually the bar tenders, but never me before this.

He jumped right up in my face…“WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS, A F**KING JOKE?!… he screamed at me again and again… along with other incoherent babbling… then told me “PACK YOUR S**T UP AND GET THE F**K OUT!”

It was weird… this great sense of relief came over me, like… “Oh… I’m finally freeeee and I didn‘t have to quit!”

Next morning bright and early my buddy and I were there to get my stuff outta there before anybody changed their mind, haha.

Okay… that’s my little story.

_________________
Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

If you are into doing weddings, you can't really commit to a Saturday unless you have a ready substitute host.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

That's certainly your prerogative, but then you should never be surprised when a bar owner unceremoniously tosses you out like trash. Needless to say, most bar owners aren't known for their ethics.

Personally I view any task I'm asked to perform for another for remuneration as "business" whether it's part time, full time or one time. How is a contract a BAD idea? If nothing else it spells out their expectations, your expectations, and diffuses any potential for disagreement or dissatisfaction.

By the way, a contract doesn't have to be long and cumbersome. Simply that you will do "X" and they will pay "X" for whatever period of time you agree upon.

*** Out of curiosity, how many here DO NOT have some sort of written agreement with their karaoke venues?

_________________
[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I dunno… maybe I live in an area that’s different from most,

but I doubt anyone around here would get a written contract from a bar/club, and I wonder how enforceable one would be anyways.


But... that's just me and my area. YMMV.

_________________
Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

If it's happened to you 5 times in the past year, obviously it wasn't too much of a learning experience for you. Exactly how many times are you going to let people screw you over before you change your ways and stop being the nice guy?

No contracts here - I've never had a problem. I've been in the same place now for a long time. Just lucky I guess.

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

We very rarely do contracts. In those cases it's usually for a wedding or private function and they request one. Having no contract is also an advantage for the host. If things become unbearable, you can pack your bags and leave.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

I have no contract with my home room. I figure that if in the future it slows down to the point to where they don't want me around anymore, well... I won't want to be around either.

I have a couple of contracts for Xmas parties but this is at their request to be sure their entertainment is locked in.