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That I definitely agree with. It's actually very easy to legally discriminate against people, 90% of accomplishing that is simply keeping your mouth shut. Which this owner was too stupid to do.

I'm gay, and if a bar owner wants to keep me out of his bar, the easiest way to accomplish it is to keep sports running on the TV and a lot of headbanger music on the jukebox. Same result as posting a "No Fags Allowed" sign, except not discriminatory in the slightest. It won't work on keeping us all away, but it would work on a high percentage of us, there is definitely a reason that stereotype exists.

I dunno, Re... I've had a few openly gay friend go to sh*t-kickin, a$#-bumpin' country and he!!-raising metalheads... because the bar openly accepted any walks of life.

One of my regs used to sing Frank Sinatra's "Fly Me To The Moon" and just NAILED it... made me a fan of the song, and many of the older bikers loved the guy and bought him a round!

Must be the area! Portland was VERY accepting (although there WERE grumbling to be sure!) of most lifestyles!

One of my gigs was in a mexican nightclub. The patrons were mainly older and from the old school.Very polite and strict with their kids. Most were afraid to go in there but it was no different than any other club.


There are no problems with the mexican-americans. However if you have illegal gang types you have a major problem and I mean MAJOR.. Before you start talking discrimination you might want to know all of the facts. In this area half the customers might be hispanic but we do retain the right to expel or refuse service to troublemakers.

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The only facts we have to go by were what was posted in the original post. The bar owner didn't say anything about gang members, he simply said he didn't want the place to turn into a Mexican bar.

I find it very interesting that there have been so many subtle justifications for his behavior in this thread.

Just had to add two pennies.

Legal Match Definition

Does a Restaurant Have the Unrestricted Right to Refuse Service to Specific Patrons?
No. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly prohibits restaurants from refusing service to patrons on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. In addition, most courts don’t allow restaurants to refuse service to patrons based on extremely arbitrary conditions. For example, a person likely can’t be refused service due to having a lazy eye.

But Aren’t Restaurants Considered Private Property?
Yes, however they are also considered places of public accommodation. In other words, the primary purpose of a restaurant is to sell food to the general public, which necessarily requires susceptibility to equal protection laws. Therefore, a restaurant’s existence as private property does not excuse an unjustified refusal of service. This can be contrasted to a nightclub, which usually caters itself to a specific group of clientele based on age and social status.

So Are “We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone” Signs in Restaurants Legal?
Yes, however they still do not give a restaurant the power to refuse service on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. These signs also do not preclude a court from finding other arbitrary refusals of service to be discriminatory. Simply put, restaurants that carry a “Right to Refuse Service” sign are subject to the same laws as restaurants without one.

What Conditions Allow a Restaurant to Refuse Service?
There a number of legitimate reasons for a restaurant to refuse service, some of which include:

Patrons who are unreasonably rowdy or causing trouble
Patrons that may overfill capacity if let in
Patrons who come in just before closing time or when the kitchen is closed
Patrons accompanied by large groups of non-customers looking to sit in
Patrons lacking adequate hygiene (e.g. excess dirt, extreme body odor, etc.)

In most cases, refusal of service is warranted where a customer’s presence in the restaurant detracts from the safety, welfare, and well-being of other patrons and the restaurant itself.

So, although guilty of being a jerk (and a coward, IMHO), he did not break the law. No where have I heard that he denied these patrons service, drink, or food. Currently, it is not against the law to be a bigot.

That is why I conversed in generalisms and did not make any judgements as others here have done. Until I know all the facts I cannot advise. I just offered a couple of comments from one with many years experience. I have looked into eyes of a mexican in Jaurez with a switchblade pointed toward my gut. I have been in very mean mexican bars. Our Mngr is hispanic and he might have done the same thing.. Prejudice is a sign of immaturity but a business owner has the right to refuse service to anybody.I retain that right as a host also.

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In case you are wondering I did virtually live the song El Paso but I did manage to make it back across the bridge. And the love has never waned for about 50 years.

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Nothing subtle about it, he is the owner and if he dosen't want spanish karaoke in his business he dosen't have to have it.

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I just want to interject here for a second. It may seem like I am contradicting myself in my previous posts.....to the close minded. You must think out of the box a bit.

It is MY show and noone will tell me how to run it. (suggestions are greatly appreciated and wanted, but not always followed)

It is THEIR bar and noone can tell them how to run it.

With that being said, my stance is this...It's up to me to stand up for what I believe in and determine where to draw the line and it's MY CHOICE whether or not I will tolerate things. The same works in exact reverse for the bar owner. It's all about respect...MrD

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As a DJ I do know the difference between mariachi, new mexico and tejano music. Classic or the old stuff is not requested much anymore.. I do sing El Rancho Grande and Paloma Balanca which are very old mariachi songs.

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Not if it's based on race you don't.

God, you're thick. If you can't get by now that the owner was trying to keep Mexican people out of the bar and not Spanish music, I'm certainly not going to be able to make that 25 watt lightbulb light up over your head.

If he's trying to keep mexican people out of his bar, how did these mexican gentlemen get in, and were in earlier and served and had the choice to par-take in karaoke (english) just like everybody in the place.Just because babs has spanish karaoke dosen't mean he has to offer it.Yes he said he didn't want his bar to become a mexican bar,his choice he has control of the menu the music on the jukebox the karaoke music and what kind of band if any and what they play to draw the people he wants in his bar.Sports bar, country bar,metal bar ect.....

Telling God that he or she is thick, probably not a smart way to start a posting.clASSy

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He can apply any criteria he wants and refuse service to anybody. Anti discrimination laws do not apply in theses matters. It is not a public library it is a private business. He definitely has the right to decide what music goes on the jukebox what a band or karaoke singer sings.

I was doing a consult with a club owner and he said all I would play was country and old rock. I laughed and walked out I didnt say I agreed with it He has that right.

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yeah, I've passed on KJ'in in a club where they wanted to restrict what would be sang... I said "it's up to the patrons. If they're in a mood to sing silly little love songs all night, they WILL! I will probably put my head in an oven afterwords, but that's their choice!"

He disagreed, and I picked up my materials and wished him luck in finding a host that would comply!

He NEVER did. He ended up hiring a friend of mine and that lasted for a couple years! And they sang whatever the guy had, and brought in their own cdgs as well!

Wrong. To repeat what somebody else posted earlier in the thread:

Does a Restaurant Have the Unrestricted Right to Refuse Service to Specific Patrons?
No. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly prohibits restaurants from refusing service to patrons on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. In addition, most courts don’t allow restaurants to refuse service to patrons based on extremely arbitrary conditions. For example, a person likely can’t be refused service due to having a lazy eye.

But Aren’t Restaurants Considered Private Property?
Yes, however they are also considered places of public accommodation. In other words, the primary purpose of a restaurant is to sell food to the general public, which necessarily requires susceptibility to equal protection laws. Therefore, a restaurant’s existence as private property does not excuse an unjustified refusal of service. This can be contrasted to a nightclub, which usually caters itself to a specific group of clientele based on age and social status.

So Are “We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone” Signs in Restaurants Legal?
Yes, however they still do not give a restaurant the power to refuse service on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. These signs also do not preclude a court from finding other arbitrary refusals of service to be discriminatory. Simply put, restaurants that carry a “Right to Refuse Service” sign are subject to the same laws as restaurants without one.

What Conditions Allow a Restaurant to Refuse Service?
There a number of legitimate reasons for a restaurant to refuse service, some of which include:

Patrons who are unreasonably rowdy or causing trouble
Patrons that may overfill capacity if let in
Patrons who come in just before closing time or when the kitchen is closed
Patrons accompanied by large groups of non-customers looking to sit in
Patrons lacking adequate hygiene (e.g. excess dirt, extreme body odor, etc.)


In most cases, refusal of service is warranted where a customer’s presence in the restaurant detracts from the safety, welfare, and well-being of other patrons and the restaurant itself.

Those who are quoting laws and statutes are 100% right! Legally no business owner can discriminate against serving anyone based on race, ethnicity or sexual preference.

But they CAN legally tell their KJ employee that no Spanish karaoke can be played, to remove those titles from the book used at his establishment and those are the only songs that can be played (no customer-brought CDGs). Obviously the owner's desired result is to make it less attractive to Hispanic customers, although he cannot legally refuse them admittance.

Is it right, is it wrong? That's for you to decide. But it IS legal.

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We do on occasion get gang type people and drug dealers in our bar. Usually they are Mexican, but that is because the suburb next to ours is predominantly Mexican. That isn't to say it is all Mexicans who are this way. You get bad eliments from all races. I wondered why he would pick on these gentlemen when in the past less desirables have been left alone and they were Mexican. I think he was confused in thinking all Mexicans were bad and decided he was actually doing something right. Usually the gang and drug people are short lived in our bar because it is a nice family bar and it isn't their typical hang out, but I do see them from time to time.

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quote:Usually the gang and drug people are short lived in our bar because it is a nice family bar and it isn't their typical hang out, but I do see them from time to time.quote

That usually means the establishment is being cased for future robbery.

That wouldn't be good !

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