Karaoke Forums

I'm starting this new topic in order not to continue high jacking dan's thread.
Sorry, Dan

I've copied over some of my posts from the other thread for continuity purposes.
Anyone new coming to thread won't then wonder what the heck I'm talking about!
I would quote all the responses too, but that would be too much. For reference, that thread is here:
http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14615

oooh ! I love to hear how this turns out. I think you did the right thing. You gave the owner his chance to pay you more and instead he decided to be a tight wad. If your crowd follows you he'll really feel it in his wallet. It would be sweet revenge, for sure. Good luck at the new venue.

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I have a meeting today with the other venue.
I met with them a couple of weeks ago and they seem willing to pay me a higher base rate and want to work out a percentage of sales bonus as well.
Less hauling of gear, an hour less time, more cash in my pocket, and a place I can mix GOOD sound!
The other place keeps telling me to turn it down.
He doesn't understand that drinkers and partiers want it loud.
The end result is that I have it turned up with the lows and low-mids turned down. He's happy, the singers can be heard over the din of the crowd, but it makes for really crappy sound.
It's a real shame too, because I have some great singers.
Thankfully, they all know that the owner forces me to mix that way.
They're really a great crowd.
The other issue I have with the owner is more a personal one.
Back in April, when I first started for him, I had only been at it a couple of weeks when I was hospitalized with a severe gall bladder attack. They scheduled me for semi-emergency surgery for the next day. I call the bar owner to let him know I couuldn't make it that week and why. He practically demanded that I put off the surgery because he needed me to be there!
Then after he couldn't convince me to postpone it, (anyone who's had gall bladder issues will TOTALLY understand!) he approached my boyfriend at his store and told him he needed another karaoke host because I wasn't reliable.
The bar owner did'nt know that he was my hubby.
Hubby told him, "She's in the hospital!"
It didn't really matter anyways, because there simply are no other available hosts.
Now, I've been looking for a person willing to sub in for me from the word go, and I'm still looking. There's just no one available who wants to do it.
Anyways, that's my personal gripe against the owner.
The new venue's owner realizes we all have lives an poop sometimes happens.
I used to work as a bartender for him a few years back at another of his bars.
I'm off to get ready for my meeting with him.
Wish me luck and I'll fill you all in when I get back.
Cheers!

Babs:
Thanks for your support!
See my previous post.
The revenge for me would be over the whole hospital thing.
Oh, and I only missed ONE night because of my surgery. I really should have missed two, but the pressure was on and I tried to compromise.
I did the next show two days after my surgery.
Not good.

It is hard to find a bar owner that cares about anything, but the bottom dollar. Compassion is not one of their strong suits.

Do you think he'll be able to find another KJ to fill your shoes when you leave?

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

How much he makes should be of no concern to you. That's HIS business. What YOUR business is? Getting paid what YOU believe makes it worth your time to work there.

If indeed you already have a lot of contacts and people love your show, they'll follow you around the block to the new venue. What I would recommend is that you get a CONTRACT with the new venue. I would make the initial term a non-cancellable 13 weeks. If he (or you) does not cancel at the end of the contract (you might find him to be an even worse boss!) then it automatically renews for another non-cancellable 13 week period.

I know you are anxious to leave the other gig, but you also want to protect YOUR interests. It might well be that after you bring everyone over from the other bar and the new place builds a crowd, he'll cut you loose and bring in a cheaper host. Especially if he has his own sound system, it's pretty easy for him to go on eBay and get a loaded hard drive.

It's not a symbol of mistrust: business is business! If he wants to do business with you, get it in writing.

Good luck!

_________________
[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Well, It did not go as expected.
The new bar's motivation is simple: He wants to crush the old bar.
The new owner wanted to pay less than I'm getting now, because he "wants to see if it goes over".
What???? !!!
He offerred me $150 per night. I currently have a deal with the old owner for $175.
I told him no way. He then upped to the same I'm getting now.
Then he stated he wanted only one day and see if it warrants another day later on.
Again, no way.
As I said to him:" If you want me and my crowd, you'll have to take both days. They are used to it now and to quit it and then suddenly try and build it up again later would be a mistake. By then, they will be used to going elswhere".
He told me I had a good point and then conceded to that as well.
He also didn't want to guarantee me shows until April, which was one of my stipulations.
At least my current bar does that.
I hesitatingly agreed to the move, but as I have a nasty head cold, it took me a while after our meeting to realize that there really is no incentive for me to move.There is absolutely nothing in it for me except alot of risk at pissing off the current bar and burning my bridges there with no guarantee that the new guy won't toss me after a month or after the old bar is "crushed".
I called him back and let him know that there really is no incentive for me to move and that I would have to have my original terms of $200 per night for two nights per week, plus guarantee me untill April.
He said "ok thanks" and hung up.
Took him about an hour after that to call me.
First he called my home. I wasn't there.
Then he called my cell 3 times within as many minutes. I didn't answer as I really wanted to discuss this with my hubby before I go any further.
Obviously he had a counter offer or he wouldn't have bothered to call me.
The meeting itself was rather humourous. He told me that my current bar was shopping around for another host and that there are, in fact a few listed in the local paper.
I haven't heard of any other hosts, and that may or may not be true, as I don't read their paper, but I'm leaning towards not.
He also told me that he had looked into hiring someone from another city and 2 hours to the west. It was, of course, cost prohibitive.
He was obviously trying to make me feel unsecure enough in my position to bully me to his lower rate.
But the reality is this:
If there are so many other Karaoke hosts available as he implies, why doesn't he just hire them and not bother with me?
The answer is simple.
I'm the best in the area.
Now I don't mean to sound full of myself, I'm really not. I know that sooner or later someone else could come around and blow me out of the water. But right now, I'm it.
Right after our meeting, I ran into the girl who has hosted karaoke at another local spot for the last 10 years. She doesn't own any of the equipment or discs; the bar does and so she can't hire herself out for other gigs as she has none of her own stuff.
She told me that she had told the new bar that I had the best system in the area with the biggest and most updated library. She told them that I keep my library updated as much as I can. She told them that I was a professional at what I did and really knew my stuff and that there really wasn't anyone else to compare.
Having taken a tylenol or two to alleviate my cold symptoms, I am now feeling more clear headed than ever. I am more secure than ever in knowing that I have a good show and I am truly the best in the area at what I do.
I am not budging for less than what I think I should get.
Because even with all my gripes against the old bar owner, at least I know what I'm getting and that I'm guaranteed work.

Oh, and Babs:
No, the old bar would not be able to get anyone else to work for him, even if there was someone.
The others I mentioned in earlier posts worked for him and will not do so again.
He's not an easy man to get along with.
He is from a different culture and the previous hosts just didn't understand how to deal with him.
I have no problems because I am clear and firm about what I expect and I understand his culture and where he is coming from.
I don't necessarily like it, but I least I know how to work within it.

I agree for the most part with you, Dan. Thank you.
I will, however, disagree with you on the "how much he makes" point.
I took his dead bar and turned it into a cash cow.
His excuse for not giving me a $50 raise was that he couldn't afford it.
The moment he said that, it became my business.
And I asked for what I thought I was worth, less a little to cut him a deal for the regular gig 2 nights a week.
I currently get $250 per night at a bar a block from my home. I can save my gas and walk there in under 10 minutes( I have a bad leg so it normally would take about 5 minutes or less). They have their own system so no hauling tons of gear.
When they hired me, they didn't even argue my price. And their bar is not near as busy as the other one. It will be, though, I'm only in week three with this one and already we have a large increase in business.
I used to run a bar and have worked in the industry for years. I know what a ringout should be judging by capacity. I'm not often far wrong, either.
I gave him his original starting price of $150 because I was new and untested and to give him a chance to build it up. I didn't want to bleed the guy dry when he obviously couldn't afford it.
But now he can, and I know it and he knows it too.
He's just extremely cheap.
The secret to keeping good employees is to treat them well and PAY THEM WHAT THEY'RE WORTH.
The same goes for good entertainment.

Not sure I understand? You make as you stated at your current bar...


But then you said later after you turned down the other that the new possible wasn't even wanting to give what you make now at $150 per night???? Then you go to say you currently make $175 from the current bar & he won't even give you a $50 raise?


I'm guessing this is another bar entirely...

_________________
[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Sorry for the confusion,TTowntenor.
I completely missed a step in the process.
2 weeks ago, I negotiated with the old bar owner for a raise when I was originally approached by the new guy.
My original pay was $150. We ended up negotiating up to $175 when he thought I might walk. It took him 4 days to agree to it, though, as he didn't even want to give me that. Hence, my comment about the $25 raise.
In other words, he caved when I told him I might go to the other place and agreed to $175. I had originally asked him for $200, which I referred to in my comment about a $50 raise.
And yes, the $250 is another bar entirely in my own town, which I host at one night a week.
The old bar and new bar we have been discussing is roughly a half hour away in another city.
OMG, Now I'm confusing myself!

I hope you can get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

I guess you are lucky that your bar owners dont talk amongst themselves cos if the one that is paying you $250 ever found out that someone else that you have to TRAVEL to is only paying you $175 then oops you may have a prob on your hands

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

You said it, sister!

That's why I think this guy will pay your price and meet your terms. You are a proven "commodity". He may feel paying a little extra for a karaoke host will protect the big investment he made in the new club.

Bar owners aren't the most genteel businessmen. He was trying to work you, that's no doubt. Even if he meets your terms, do you even WANT to work for him.

If he makes a firm offer, you could also use it as a bargaining chip with your present boss.

Sounds like a coin toss of the lesser of two evils. Good luck!

_________________
[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Not really. The $250 gig is a recent addition and my rates have gone up since the lower paying gig.
Also, the $250 gig is only once per week but the $175 gig is twice per week. They get a bulk deal
The $250 gig either wants me or not.
That's my price and it won't change.
Right now, I have a rather captive audience, if you will, as there really is no one else who provides the service.

At this point, I've decided I will stay put.
His motivations are not good which doesn't sit well with me.
If his motivation was to turn a profit in his bar and do the best he could with it, I might not feel so apprehensive.
But his motivation is to crush the other guy, whose only realy "crime" is do well at what he does.
Personally, I focus on doing the best I can at what I do and I don't give a rat's behind what the other guy is doing.
If I do my job to the best of my abilities and focus on that, instead of what someone else might be doing, then it will show in the quality of my show.
If I focus on crushing the other guy, then that too will be reflected in my show.

I have a bad feeling about the whole thing and my gut is telling me not to move.
He would have to make an unbelieveably good offer to get me to go now.

I'd say it's the perfect time to call the first bar owner's bluff. His crying poverty to you about his expenses increasing because he had to hire and additional person to deal with the extra crowd is beyond ridiculous, it's insulting to your intelligence.

He knows that you're the reason the cash is coming in, and he knows that it could easily follow you around the corner. If push comes to shove, he would be a complete idiot to lose all that business over $50 or even $100.

I'd say it's time for a bluff of your own, what better time to do it than when you've got a backup already in place? Quote him $250, tell him exactly why you're worth it, and see what happens. No risk, no reward!

Man, oh man! I know of what you speak. I don't know what culture your bar owner is from but I know in dealing with those of a certain culture, that they like to haggle and they take their bargaining skills very seriously. Quite interesting and entertaining to watch when you are not on the receiving end of it. I've had owners come to me after a gig complaining their take wasn't as much as expected and try to talk me down in cost.

Diafel:

Consider there there are a lot of people who troll this site - don't register, don't ever put anything up, and might take the information you've written here to someone you'd rather not be sharing it with. Just a warning, as you are not anonymous with a pic of yourself - I'm assuming it's you?

k

Thanks, Karen.
I appreciate your concern, but I have no problems with anyone knowing what I've written.
Who are they going to take it to?
The bar owners concerned?
Makes not one iota of a difference to me.
What can they do to me?
Not much I can tell you.
If they want to "fire me" then so be it, but it would be cutting off their noses to spite their faces, because who are they going to hire in my place?
Good luck to them!
As for me losing income, I'm not concerned about that either. I do this mainly because I enjoy it, not for the money, although the money helps.
If I did not enjoy it, I would not do it, for any amount of money.

Okay, good. I kind of feel the same way about my jobs, too.

Funny, I had one former client call me asking me to PLEASE come back. Ha! I said I'd think about it ... and call them if I change my mind...but at this time, NO....hey, the attitude before was that there were LOTS of karaoke companies around. Well, there sure are, lots of krappyoke. I'd have to drag it up out of the mud after the last go 'round and there just aren't enough hours in my life to go through that.

Glad you've got your situation under control. Too bad people don't believe what we say when they really need to. Would save everyone a lot of time and energy ... and make them a lot more money.