Karaoke Forums

i've only been running my business since january, however, i've had pretty good luck securing gigs. one of my best shows was a tuesday night at a local bar...i'd been doing it for six months. when i started it slowly grew until the patrons said teh crowd had TRIPLED to what it was before. i considered myself very lucky. an awesome tuesday night that rivaled my fridays? so... i had three slow nights.. THREE! showed up last tuesday to find another person set up and ready to go. i had been replaced. no notice, what so ever.
i've emailed the bartender (the owner has not returned my calls and had nothing to say to my face except to look like a deer in headlights and say, "i don't know what's going on?".... the bartender said, 'it was nothing personal'.
so from now on, i'm doing contracts... but i have to admit, i am a bit trigger-shy... i feel like a scolded puppy.... any advice for getting back out there?

(i was featured TWICE in our local paper as "tuesday night's best bet!") should i try to get another tuesday someplace else? or just move on to bigger and better nights...

Of course you should get another Tuesday an another venue. Take your singers and go to another room. But contact your singers and take them with you.

You didn't really get burned, you got paid, but how they replaced you shows you what a slimeball you were working for. It's very possible that the bar is struggling to stay in business. Move on, put it behind and continue doing a good job wherever you go, that's the best revenge.

Having been burned by a bar, you have my sympathies... I pulled in a crowd, for one year at a venue, every monday, tuesday and wednesday night. We were the busiest pub in the area and I'd given them a huge discount over xmas and new year, assuming that I would continue throughout the following year.... Only to get a call on the first monday in Janurary. . . "sorry we no longer need you".

The friday / saturday night karaoke host, from what I can tell, offered the bar owner deal for my nights, and convinced him he'd be able to pull in a bigger crowd.. (convincing the owner that the bar take on friday and saturday would continue onto the early week shows). He didn't live up to his promise, three nights went to two, then one, then it was cancelled, the other karaoke just couldn't bring in the crowd.

In two months the venue was up for sale and disgruntled customers were milling about the streets, looking for a new karaoke.

That venue, was my baby, I gave it everything. I refer to it still as my first love. It broke my heart to lose that one, and years later I still look in as I drive by (to other gigs) and count the number of people it doesn't have.

Although the bar owner regretted losing me (His mum told me ) I never got the job back. On the plus side, I've moved on and I've lost and gained venues since... nothing bothers me anymore reguards to work.... work comes and goes, sometimes because of the way I run my show, other times because of the bar owner.

There's no point getting stressed, learn and move on... good hosts always find work.

Contracts don't always mean anything more than the paper they are written on. Many bar owners are reluctant to sign one in the first place & can always claim that you were not holding up your end of the deal if the bar is slow. Knew a couple that used contracts with bars that dropped or replaced them & lost in court.

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Ouch - it hurts, doesn't it. That seems to be the karaoke business in general - always some slimeball cruising around trying to bait places with lower prices. Takes owners one time of doing what yours did and they realize the error in their ways. A lot of owners seem to underestimate the ability of a karaoke host to build their business for them and don't always believe, until it happens, that the people can be gone as fast as they got there. I'd sure be looking for another Tuesday venue in the area, and make sure you contact all your followers. (I finally created a rather large e-mail list so I can contact everyone personally. Cell ph #'s are great too - send one mail out and they all get it.) Put that prior gig on your resume as to your ability to build a business. Not your fault the bozo screwed up and replaced you. Best of luck procuring a new venue.

Losing a gig after 6 months? I think it's just business. Be happy you had the six months. They may have made the wrong move -- if they come back to you, raise your price.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

You've fallen off the proverbial HORSE ..now get back on and ride !!!!!

Next time TAKE the blinders off .... be aware of your surroundings and don't ever under estimate your relationships with the BARTENDERS and OWNERS.

Stop down to the bar on your OFF nights and talk to the owner.
and BEWARE any other DJ's or KJ's working the same bars....they all want your days

I'm sorry to hear this has happened to you.

I don't know that a contract will help exept being able to let them know what you expect. Legally they don't seem to hold much water. At least it might put it in their minds you'd like a 2 week notice before being terminated.


I wouldn't worry about revenge. Make your decisions to work at a new venue based on what is best for your business. If you do get a gig on Tuesdays it will probably be easier to move your crowd because that is the night they were going out.

Under cutters are unfortunately part of business. Try not to take it to personally.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Just a little advice, which I follow most of the times (depending of the relation to the venue).

What I usually do, is

a) Offer an hourly price and offer to pack up early on slow nights to save them money.
b) with a flat fee, I just give them money back at the end, when I know for sure, they didn't make the money they're paying me.

This seems to be a fair practice and venues/owners usually appreciate it. I even had owners refusing my offer, knowing that bad nights happen and the amount of people I usually draw.

I'm sure, if you built up their business that much, and you would have given them back a little bit on those slow nights, they would have never let you go, knowing that you are a fair person to deal with.

Never the less I am sorry, you lost that gig. On top I really don't like the way, they treated you. A fair notice of a week or two is the least after 6 months.

Me and my DJ partner got fired from a gig once. In that case at least is was a sit-down situation. And I knew it was coming.

Other situation---I used to do fill-ins for another guy. He seemed to have a hard time keeping gigs(personality was abrasive I guess) anyway one of the bar-owners came to me and asked me if he would fire my partner if I would then take the gig.
Had to say SORRY to him that I dont operate that way. So had to pass it up. Although I could see the guy's point..............as I am BY FAR THE BETTER CHOICE!!!

But I kept my honor and didnt whore myself out!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I wouldn't see that as being dishonorable at all.

If you had asked him to fire the other guy and hire you, that would be a different story. But if the other KJ can't keep a gig, that's his fault and his problem, there's no reason any other KJ should pass up work because of it.

Business is business. If the bar owner wants a better quality service that's certainly his right. There's no reason he should stick with mediocrity if he can get something better, he wants to improve his bottom line and he SHOULD strive for the best entertainment possible. And if you can provide it for him, why shouldn't you if he asks you to?

I think your sense of honor was drastically misplaced in this situation. There's nothing wrong with being in the right place at the right time.

First, I agree with bill. I hope you got cell numbers for texts, or second best e-mails. Remember, EVERYBODY reads their texts, but some will delete e-mails.

Anyone in my area who jumps an existing show is considered slime, and is excluded from covering for others and will never receive help in any way from other hosts..... We are all friendly competitors here, and kind of tight knit.

As for contracts: Just PERSONALLY speaking, I avoid them. I well known enough not to worry about my end of things. However, I don't want to be tied to a venue. The only contract I have states that I require a six week minimum engagement to build the night. If they renege they pay the same price as a single event for the nights I was there. Not that it matters. I have NEVER been anyplace less than a year...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Actually it was a matter of LOYALTY---as this guy has hired me to do quite a few fill in's where he pays me quite well and Ive done several for him since then. Additionally I didnt want to be tied down with a full time weekend gig.

Furthermore the way I was approached was in a rather sleazy, underhanded way. If he had FIRST fired my partner THEN asked me to take the gig that would have been one thing. But to offer it to me BEFORE he dropped him would have made me be as sleazy and underhanded and cutthroat as him.

I place a VERY HIGH PREMIUM on LOYALTY and above board dealings. And will go with that before some sleaze-ball approaches me with an underhanded offer.

Sorry, my instincts were CORRECT in this situation.

And I will continue to place a high premium on above-board dealings in all business arrangements I engage in.

Like some others have cautioned against---watch out for the sleaze buckets out there and walk away from them when you encounter them----unless of course you LIKE WORKING FOR A SLEAZE BUCKET.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Something that always holds true in business or personal relationships.

If they'll do it for you / they'll do it to you

Swingcatkurt

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SERVING THE COMMUNITY SINCE LAST TUESDAY

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the replies...

Yes, the bar owner acted like a slimeball, but he had me duped because when we began our business relationship, he actually paid me for a night that i didn't work, because he felt that he "left me hanging" and didn't get back to me quick enough. it was for that reason, that I felt he was trustworthy.

i'm getting over it... in fact... here it is tuesday and i'm actually happy that i can relax tonight and not work =)

i will get back on the horse... with a helmet this time... so as to not be affected by the next inevitable fall!

The way I figure it, in my situation, is I don't get paid more when I'm dealing with an over packed house, so why should I give money back on a slow night. Now I've never had to close early because I didn't have enough singers, but have been down to 5 or 6. If I actually left 2 hours before close I'd consider cutting the bar owner a break.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

You're not wrong Babs, but from my experience with handling it the way I do, I do sometimes get a bonus if we have a packed night and good sales. And it's not, that this happens on a regular base. My shows are all very well visited on average.

So it all evens out in the end. The really appreciate that approach and would think twice, to replace me.

If a show really doesn't kick off at all within let's say 4-6 weeks, then I cancel it myself.

Speaking of which: I'm starting a new show tonight. Wish me luck!

Good luck !

I guess it depends a lot on the bar owner also. Mine is tight and very untrusting when it comes to money. When I do have a slow night and the pays the same it does in my mind make up for feeling under paid on the overly busy nights.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Yes, of course... like I stated before, it always depends on the relationship to the venue/owners/managers etc...

I had one owner, that constantly argued with me about paying the ASCAP fees, and how he thinks I should pay it, etc... To the point, that he got very offending towards me for no reason. (His wife was in the back, looking at me with an apologizing look on her face). He used to get $hitfaced all the time on top of that.

The last night, I was there, I brought in 15 of my regulars. But there was nobody else in the place. After my show (running 4 hours as agreed) he asked me, if I would charge him full price for the night. I answered, well I did my time and brought in my crowd. So as far as I see it, I did my job, I was hired for. It's not my fault, that he doesn't promote the Karaoke night enough, to bring in crowd on top. He answered, if I charge him the full amount, this would be my last night.

So I grabbed the full amount, shook his hand, told him no hard feelings, business is business and I can see his point and wished him good luck in the future... period. I never looked back.