Karaoke Forums

I have seen several topic threads here, where we have discussed under-cutters and pirates stealing your shows (in some cases, I have seen the two terms used interchangeably, where they were NOT mutually exclusive). I have also seen discussions about back-stabbers (who have stolen shows from you), and discussions where the Bar/Venue has either canceled your show or has driven you to the point where you felt it was necessary to leave and find a new place to set up shop. In most of these discussions, either the KJ who has been victim to any of these circumstances, or one of us (who joined in to give some advice) has stated something along the lines of finding a new place to host your show and taking "YOUR PEOPLE" with you (implying that these people are the only business that the bar/venue has, and that the place will fall apart without you there). It's one thing to say that people will follow you (or that you expect people will follow you), but it can be a totally different story if you look at it from a Singer's point of view.

Speaking from a Singer's point of view, it doesn't hold much importance to me as to who is hosting a Karaoke show at a particular venue. There are times where I may want to go to a specific KJ's show, and there are times that I will only go to a specific KJ's show because that's where my friends want to go. This is not something that is unique or exclusive to me. I have seen many KJs come and go from the same venue, yet the same crowd has remained there. Most of us have no knowledge of what a KJ makes at a particular gig, so hearing that you lost a gig to some under-cutter may not matter to us (although you will most likely have our sympathies for it). Also most of us do not care whether a KJ is operating legitimately or with bootlegs/burns that were not obtained through legal sources. All that many of us care about is getting our (to coin a phrase from one of you) "Sing-on."

There are some factors where I might not be inclined to return to a particular venue if they got rid of the current KJ there. One of those factors might be that I have a personal dislike towards the new KJ. Another factor might be that I don't like how the new/current KJ runs the show, or how his/her sound system is. These (and many other reasons that I did not touch upon here) are all things that have been discussed in other topic threads, so we don't really need to have this rehashed here.

Now, I have seen a "Loyal Following" of people for certain KJs. No matter where the KJ goes, these people will follow (and the place will be be packed all of the time). But, I have also seen the other side of the coin.... The KJ has people that only come to certain shows (maybe only come out on a certain night of the week), and these people will stay at that place regardless of who is hosting the show... OR, maybe these people will just find another place to go if the Karaoke gets canceled at one place, and while you're looking for a new show, they're already comfortably settled in at the new place that they have decided to attend. I have also seen many people not care where they went for Karaoke, as long as they went out, or, they would only go out to Karaoke if it were within xxx miles from their house.

OK... here's my questions:
1. How sure of yourselves are you, that when you leave one venue (for whatever the circumstance may be), that you're going to be able to bring all of the people (that you call "Your Regulars") with you to a new show at another venue?
2. Why?
3. What if the venue is all the way across town, or in another town/city? (If you build it, they will come) Will they all still follow you?

I'm never sure that people will follow, infact in my experience, when i've lost a venue, they tend to stay initially and check out the replacement. People are creatures of habit and dislike change. However most of the hosts in my area are wildly different in the way they run their shows, so once i've lost a venue people do tend to find me elsewhere on a different night. I suspect if I could find a replacement venue nearby, on the same day, I would be able to take some of the customers with me but I've never been in the situation to prove it.

The main advantage I have (aside from my charm and wit) is I run a strict rotation and I'm knowlegable about what I do, which helps with customer service. There are hosts in the area, that have favourites, those that call people up for one or two or sometimes three songs at a time, ones that sings at the start of every rotation no matter how busy they get, others that have no basic knowledge with music.. (I had one play an unusual version of "House of the Rising Sun", and when I pointed out it wasn't the Animals version insisted that it was), some don't even know where the effects button is. Although this doesn't always mean the other shows are bad, as I said before people are creatures of habit and dislike change, so they tend to come back to us.

There are a lot of shows and hosts in my area, so we tend to lose customers because our rotation becomes too long, and also we lose a few for competitions who eventually come back, we rarely lose customers because of us and something we do.

With any new show, I can usually bring about four singers with me, who if it's not local will come purely to support me during the early quiet weeks and then move on when a crowd is built.

I used to gig quite a lot of "local" pubs - where the people there are from the local community. They are fiercely loyall to the pub itself, not the KJ. Some who became friends would follow you - but to them, it was about the venue.

There are definitely a few here who flatter themselves

with respect to that, and their power over management.

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I will, perhaps wrongly, assume that my post has prompted this. I'll just rephrase my initial point which was that I've had people follow me for a long time.

First off, as DD pointed out, it is how I do my show that creates this fierce loyalty. I don't know exactly how I can separate myself from how I actually do my show - my personality is part of my show. So having said that, I guess I should have said I'm fortunate enough that the way we do our shows guarantees that if I show up at a new venue and put the word out, they'll come along. Let me also say that maybe I've run into more than my share of owners who think a little too highly of their establishments and the draw they have. Who knows their motives, really. All I know is that I have a loyal legion of followers from all over our area and, no ego, they'll come with me. I'm sure there are others on this board who have the same kind of draw. Again, no ego, just has to do with the way we do the job.

Bringing them all... no. Unrealistic to say the least. I've got around 50 singers whom I call regulars. Singers whom everyone knows, show up at least a few times each month, and have been at it for awhile. About half that number will check in at least once a week. And half that number practically never miss a show. So whatever your definition of "regular" is there's my situation.

I started doing my current home room because a core group of around six asked me to please find another place. It wasn't my idea. If I had to move the show again for whatever reason I'm sure that number would be greater.

And there are plenty of singers like you Cueball who have no bonds to room or host. It's a diverse crowd. But I think out here away from a major metropolitan area people think differently.

Edit: I should add that one of that original group of singers actually did the preliminary work for me in lining up my current room. I was already hired without even asking for the job! All I had to do was go in and set up the time and price. So yeah there are some singers who are fiercely loyal. And I am to them.

You bring up a very good point about me being from a major metropolitan area. Karaoke is easily accessible on just about every night of the week (New York City). Many people (as it's been stated) are creatures of habit.... they will only go to places where they are used to (thus, they may be Regulars for Karaoke, but they are Regulars of that specific bar). As I stated too, a large percentage of the people don't care who is running the show, as long as there is a show. When you're located in a small town or rural area where there isn't that much around, I'm sure that the people who go out to enjoy Karaoke will follow that KJ.

I stated that it doesn't hold much importance to me as to who is hosting a Karaoke show at a particular venue, but that wasn't meant to imply that I do not have my own personal loyalty to specific KJs. There have been KJs that I have also "followed" from show to show, but I also like the variety of going to other KJ's shows... not necessarily because of how the KJ runs his/her show, but also to see different crowds and hear different songs sung. I consider myself somewhat unique, because I have been willing to travel between 30 to 90 miles away from my home (on many nights) just to go to a show that I've never been to before. I've also done the same kind of travel to hook up with KJs that I know from these forums (and come to their show once every 3 or 4 months).

In my case, it depends on the venue.

Some venues, I have only my regulars. I'm sure the regulars would follow me to my other shows (in the area). I would not say, that every venue would close doors after a while, due to loss of business. But I'm sure, some would hurt.

Other venues, I have build a regular crowd, that is not a following. They are more venue orientated. Those would definitely not follow (maybe some exceptions).

Why? Well, the regulars I have appreciate my shows. Some due of selection, some due of sound system and some because of my personality and fair rotations.

Karen, I was not prompted to write this because of what you said in any earlier post. I was just curious to know how many of you feel you can really back up what you have said in the past (mostly about leaving some venue in anger or disgust, and finding a new place). There have been several posts (over a long period of time), where the boasts sounded (at least to me) somewhat over the top. The way some of these posts were worded, it almost sounded like the KJ owned these people.

You (and any other KJ) are very lucky if you have a "Loyal Following" that will pack a house and keep you in business from place to place. I wish I had that, but I don't. Before I started doing any shows, I used to always have people approach me and ask me when I was going to start doing one. They would say that they would come to them if I told them about it. Then, when I started to do a few shows, they never showed up. Then, when they would see me again, they would say, "Oh, I'm so sorry I missed your show. Let me know when you're doing another, and I'll Be there." And guess what... they still didn't show up. I have learned (a long time ago) not to depend on the word of others (when they say they'll come to my show). If they come, I'm happy, and that's all. If they don't show up, oh well.... I'll make do with what I've got.... no hard feelings. When asked if I'll be attending a specific KJ's show, I won't give a definite yes. I may say that I'll try to make it, but I will also say that there's no guarantee.

I guess I'm as guilty as anyone in throwing out the phrase "bring your singers with you." But in my own case I would never in my wildest fantasies expect to move the whole group lock stock and barrel. What I would hope for is enough to "seed" the new room and why I suggest it. Not out of excessive ego.

It's more comfortable starting out with a few familiar faces. And it gets the new place into the routine. Shows them the ropes if they've seldom sung before. Which is usually the case in a fresh room.

People aren't as host loyal as they used to be years ago. WHen I first started, people (groups of them) would follow a host from show to show. But after realizing it wasn't so much the host, but the fact that there weren't a whole lot of other options at the time. Then after a few years, shows started popping up on every corner & the crowds started dispersing & going to shows closer to home. Some hosts will still have their regulars that come in to see them, but not necessarily follow them to every show - especially if the shows are out of the way from their area.

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We had to move away from our former karaoke place but we drive 3 hours (6 hour round trip--get home at 4:00 a.m.) to pay a visit about once every 3 months. It is because of the host/s and the singers there--good sound system, professional grade singer hosts with a sense of humor and creativity --friendly crowd.

When we moved, we tried out several places before settling--reason we didn't stay--not greeted or told where there was seating by bar staff, regulars served twice at neighbor table but we couldn't get served once, hostess was recruited from poker tables and didn't know how to adjust sound which was painful, host had no patience for poor singing and wouldn't adjust key as requested (me) and introduced my boyfriend (who can sing) as "and now, for the most sung song in karaoke." The place where we finally landed greeted us with free drinks for being newcomers and the host and hostess are good natured and friendly. We would follow them if they had to move within a 6o mile radius.

I think that besides the host factor, some people would stay or go depending on how much of a familiar crowd/their friends stayed or went also.

Another singer told us that the place with the poker dealer hostess finally hired a real host and he built up the business to booming. Then the place across the street offered him more money and when he went, so did the singers. are the type that So I guess it happens.

Right on, Bill - we are in more rural areas, but I have to say that this corner of the country is so overloaded with hosting establishments and companies, that to be able to create a following that will drive out of their way to come to a show is a major accomplishment. However, as witnessed at any number of shows, there truly are people who don't care what kind of show they go to. It's about gathering with friends, drinking a few, and enjoying the companionship.

Another thing I'll add to this is that there are people I know who don't bother going out to sing at those types of shows - where the sound isn't good or the selection isn't good, etc, etc. They'll seek out the good shows. On any given night in our area there are at least 3-4 shows within a 10-mile radius - certainly close enough to drive without hurting the fuel budget.

I drove to one about 20 miles away last night just to get together with some friends. Ironically several apologized for the caliber of the show, explaining that it used to be REALLY great until the prior host left. This place has shows 4-5 nights a week, is a small place but comfortable place, and was pretty cleared out by 11:30 after a 9:30 start. Historically, in this area at least, Thursday is one of THE biggest show nights for many places, even those offering weekend shows. So it would appear that this place is dying a slow death because the prior host was so good and the current one isn't like she was. (She moved out of state so it wasn't a matter of those people following her.) Proximity was the main reason for people going to this show, and whereas it could probably be overflowing, like it used to, singers coming from further away have stopped coming. I'm going to pop in there on the weekend as it is a different host - and even though weekend singers are a different breed, it will be interesting to see how busy it is. (I don't think they have the most cooperative owner at this place, based on comments from a regular last night.)

Wow How do you answer these questions without seeming egotistical? I can truely say I don't think I am better than anyone else when it comes to being a host.

The reasons I believe I'd have a large majority follow me is I've built a strong bond with my people because I've been doing it for so long. I have people that drive from other states and distant suburbs to my shows, so I think they would follow me to other locations. I have had many people tell me the only reason they come is for me because they do not like the owner. I've even had patrons try to get me to go to other locations because of this.

Once there was a rumor I was leaving and the patrons made me promise I'd let them know ahead of time where I was going. I feel comfortable in saying the bar would be in some serious trouble if I left. I have never thrown this in the owners face. Nor have I ever stated it to anyone before. It reeks of ego.

The fact is these people are a wonderful group I consider friends. I have had generations of followers through the yrs. I've gotten to know their children and parents. I've celebrated them turning 21, getting married, having children and then their children come to sing. I've celebrated some of their most intimate moments with them - weddings, anniversaries, birthdays, divorce parties, benefits, and graduation parties. Some move away and still come by a couple times a yr. or move back and start coming in regularly again. I e-mail and get xmas cards from old regulars who live to far away. I have a connection with them and their lives.

Does this make me better then anyone else - NO. It just means I have sort of karaoke family.

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As a singer, who sometimes fills in as host, I will admit to following a certain KJ where ever they go. When I started, I went where the KJ went, as he was the one to kind of introduce me to it and gave me the Lord Air Guitar sobriquet. Followed him for two years until he had some heart problems and moved to Arizona. The next host, or hosts, as they were a duo, I followed where ever they went, too. When they broke up, I went to another show and followed him and his wife till they got out of the business. Why? A lot of things like sound, selection, but their personalities are what won me over. I've been to a few other shows but they didn't impress me as much. One guy was always plastered at his shows and demanded shots for a bump in rotation. Others had issues like crappy sound (one KJ had a monitor on a stand that was basically a car 6X9 speaker mounted in a wooden cigar box) or bad condition discs that skipped and broke up on the screen, and I've even seen hard drive set ups do that. How long have I been going to karaoke? Since the days of The Singing Machine 8 track tape and lyric sheets you held in your hand. Yeah, I'm that old.

This is very true. I get some regs that will come in but if the rest of the crowd happens to be people they don't know, they will sometimes take off.



Well there is a big difference from moving a crowd across a street than moving them across a town/city.

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This is true of my shows, too, Babs. A lot of the kids who came to my kids' show years ago are now coming in as adults. Their parents come with them. Their grandparents often show up. There are huge groups that come in for celebrations. We go to their weddings and birthday parties, etc. Part of building a following is creating a place for them in your life, I guess, and us in theirs. Our closest and longest lasting friendships have come out of karaoke. I probably should have stated this in my first entry about this issue - these people are not just a following but many of them are our dearest friends.

I have a feeling that perhaps women hosts may approach this differently and we probably connect on a deeper level.

Im going to agree that there is more following in rural areas. I had A really strong show that I lost due to a flood this past spring. I never missed a week,But movet to my home town (7 miles) doing one week at a bar that many of my regulars played voleyball at. the following week we started in the basement bar of a local hotel. It was wild! right from the first week we had the place as busy on weds as they were on fri. or sat. after about 6 weeks the hotel put an end to the show due to crowd noise keeping people awake. (it was never the music). It took me about 7 weeks to find a new venue. the new venue is a former "Meat market" type "dance club". over summer it was sold, revamped and now is more focused on food. they still have a DJ on the weekends but play mostly rock or upbeat country rather than hip hop (there is still some). the first month has gone "ok" and many of our old regulars are starting to come around, But the reputation that the place had is still hurting us. that will take time. Ive got about 5 people who have made my shows at all 3 places on weds night. MANY more have showed up at least once at the new place, but followed from the first to the second. I expect that as word gets around more will come. Like others here have said, My show is different in hosting style than others around. I also take the time to get to know many of my regulars. once they connect with a host many people will try to follow them if they can.

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From my experience they will not follow unless the new bar has the same atmosphere. If the new bar has higher drink prices Forget it. I have seen karaoke institutions of plus 5 years that moved and the singers scattered . The days of 25-40 singer rotations in this area is gone. It is more of a local crowd and your bread and butter is the audience and not the amount of singers but quality of the singers.

I have preached this for 2 or 3 years and all the experts here vemently argued with me.. Oh no you need 20-30 singers. I do not know why we are 3 years ahead of everybody else. Could it be that I know what the hell I am talking about and ahead of the competition?

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Olie , it's ok, I see the same trend. Ive only been hosting 2 years and I seemed to be 3 -5 years ahead of most around here from my 3rd show on. there are 2 others who are pretty good. one is up on teck stuff, but thinks the imortant part of karaoke is how well you sing...he also thinks he is gods gift to singing cause he has his own band. The other is pretty good, always has a good folowing ect. has good gear, but he is a bit behind on teck, and he is pretty rigid about his show. his sound is not as good , but he does the only other really good show around IMO.

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