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I'm still on the fence. I don't think Obama, no matter how well liked or how well spoken he is, has the experience to be the POTUS. (Nor did Hilary either, no matter how smart she is!). Junior Senators do NOT have the experience necessary for the highest elected position in the country.

I think it's high time we re-elected a former one-term President that's still alive! !

I'm not crazy about the teaching's of Rev. Wright, in fact, it was the reason I didn't want to support Obama in the first place. I'd tell anyone here to go watch the sermons in their full context rather than the little snippets you see and then judge. Still, I agree his message was directed to his mostly black congregation. I can't say that I blame them for their point of view given the history of our nation. We are all prisoners of our own biographies. We each have our own view of the American experience. If you look through the lens of a black man (although Obama is half white) you see a history of stigmatization and subjugation. Is this right? To me that is an unanswerable question. It just is. That does not mean they hold exclusive rights, it just means they, like everyone else on this planet, see things through their own reality. All people experience the world through their own experience, much of it through racial identity, gender identity, sexual orientation etc.

I was raised in a Pentecostal church and continued to attend it well into my adulthood. I know that Palin also was raised Pentecostal. We believed in the speaking in tongues, being slain in the spirit, end times, the anti-Christ, One-World government etc. In other words, we believed that the end times were upon us and that things will play out in a certain way and there is nothing we can do about it. This could dramatically sway someone's position in policy. Should we be worried about Palin?

I really hope that all politicians believe in the separation of church and state, but we are only human.

I do not feel Obama is racist. Half of his family members are white so he has the advantage of seeing things in that unique perspective. I could be wrong. Again, just my gut feeling.

My biggest worry about Obama as Matt pointed out, is his lack of experience. If there was one thing that could change my mind it is that. He is an unknown entity. A gamble. McCain is a known entity. I think with McCain we know pretty much what we're getting, and (to me) that is not all that appealing either.

actually the spoof was more believable

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I should add.... there is nothing we can do about it but take the Lord Jesus Christ as our personal savior and hopefully be raptured straight to Heaven and thus avoid all of the tribulations of the pesky end-times.

That pretty much leaves out anybody who believes or subscribes to a different religion.

Sorry for quoting myself and double posting.

Ah, something I can eagerly agree with you on. The only difference being is that I'm starting to rethink the part about before or after the rapture. All my life I believed as you do but after seeing what I've been seeing these days I happen think that just may happen after the tribulation period instead. I'm not sure. I need to do some more reading of my Bible and praying about it.

But most importantly I believe as Christians we must stay prepared and not take our eyes off the Lord Jesus the Christ in order to be prepared when he does actually return for us.

Well we only have bout 3 more weeks till the election & this is when the real mud slinging begins... this is when it gets nasty & we find out who smoked dope or who had an affair with a prostitute, ect. ect. This country is in dire need of help & I'm not sure any of the candidate's can fix it. Praise the Lord!

Yes indeed, praise his holy name. No matter who wins it won't change what is to come.

Hey Sheree, we can disagree on the Wright thing, and thats perfectly alright. I don't think you need to hear a whole sermon to hear where he's coming from. I do find it interesting that people would defend that that retoric in this day, and age.
My Mom, and her entire family lived in the coal mining camps of W.V. until they all moved to Wash D.C. in the fifties. I went back there, and I listened to the stories of my Mom,and grandmother, and one thing that I do know is that the black mining families lived in a row of shacks right next to the white mining families. The miners, whether white, or black held little value to the mining companys because there was always another man needing work to support his family.The mules were literally deemed more valuble to the mine company. So white, or black didn't make much difference, both were treated as less than animals.
Growing up poor, I had to leave home at 15, quit school, and work full time. I have done well for my family by always working hard, putting in long hours, and mastering different skills with my hands. My point to all this is, every boss I've ever worked for only cared about one thing, and that was what value an employee could be to his company, and how much that translated into the companys bottom line. I know first hand over many years of work, that anyone regardless of race, could have done as well as I have done. I know this because I witnessed it, but the Jesse Jacksons, and the Wrights won't ever, never admit that because they would be out of a job. So I can't condone the Wrights,or the Jacksons negative downtrodden teachings. I have black friends who have done extremely well, because they will never sit in a pew on Sunday, and listen to how screwed up, and racist America is. Instead, they chose to get up, and do something to better themselves, and their families. I know I'm starting to get off topic, but I just don't buy into that mentality, and I don't feel bad for any race, because my family was right there, with the poorest of them, yet would never think about getting on the govt dole,even though my dad left after I was born. Since The most valuble thing I had was what money couldn't buy, and that was my hometraining from mom. So when someone tells me, that I have to understand this, or that, to justify the racism, and bigitry that we are talking about here, I don't think so.
Sheree, I know you are a good person,and you said something about walking in another persons shoes to understand I believe. It's just that my walk was quite different than yours, and we see things a little differently. In any event just my 3 cents, nothing personal...........Ron

Men like Jesse Jackson, Wright, and others of that ilk preach victimology. That whitey will always keep you down and the black man will always be subserviant to the white man. OK, I get it, racism does exist, and I hate it, but there is also a counter racism that does as much harm to people as racism. Black children are told "Why study, are you trying to be white? You can't succeed unless all the people are brought up." Those individuals that succeed on their own are castigated as Uncle Toms or Oreos. People like Condi Rice and Alan Keyes are ridiculed by their own. Artists, musicians, actors and pro sports stars get a pass because they have entourages they literally support, a posse if you will. Those are the hangers on ( or nut swingers as we call them ) A pro athlete or rapper gets kudos and awards from the Black advocacy groups but the struggling Black school teacher is spat upon and laughed at by their students.

Exactly, and if you know many black families as I do, one thing is clear. The families that are taught to be downtrodden usually are, and the families that grow up with good home training, and the right attitude, will overcome anything. It doesn't take a dam villiage, only good parents, but I only had one.....

Exactly, when people are taught to be downtrodden it is hard to go above and beyond the expectations of their support system. I work in the school system and I see how different each childs' behavior is and how it is related to their home environment. Sadly, many kids do not have a good environment. Who's fault is that? Who do we blame. How do we fix it? Who steps in and gives the child some sense of worth? The school system? Society? Friends? I think we are all responsible, yes.




It's hard to deny that there is historical baggage carried by the black community and this overwhelming resentment is familiar to anyone who has faced injustice.

Racism has been a fact in this country since the beginning of it. I know things are far better now than they used to be, but think about it, twenty years ago it would have been unheard of to see a black man run for president. Equal rights have been a hard fought battle. This is not to say that I support Reverend Wright's (somewhat outdated rhetoric), but I see where he is coming from. I DO feel that racism still exists in this country whether you (in your life experience) have experienced it or not. And I DO feel that seeing (or hearing) the sermons in their full content makes a big difference. These sermons convey a much more complex message than simple sound bites can express. Yes, that anger is deep. Very, very deep.

It goes far deeper than black/white issues. I'm not here to sway anyone's opinion, just to give another side. I've always been one to dig a little deeper. We can all admit that our country (although great) has made it's share of mistakes.

I've read both of Barack Obama's books. I don't see anything in the books or in his speeches that tells me he shares Reverend Wrights' point of view about black liberation theology. Sure. He could have a hidden agenda. He could have spent his whole life creating this caring understanding persona and as soon as he is elected President he will show his "true colors"...but then...he probably would have distanced himself from Wright a long time ago had he wanted to deceive people about who he is.

Nothing is taken personal Boatman. I find your posts very well thought out and intelligent. We can agree to disagree... but I think we probably agree on many things.

Speaking of Christianity......how could one follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, and support the Iraq war, or even the war in Afganistan? You can't only follow the some of the teachings.....I'd say we broke a few commandments also, and there's only ten......

Sheree, Thankyou so much for your posts so far, and your kind words. I love it when differing viewpoints can be presented without anyone getting ugly, or offended. Not only are you very intelligent yourself, I see that you are a kind, and caring person as well.
You mentioned growing up in the pentecostal church, the one I mentioned was that also, complete with people falling out, speaking in tongues, and more. Have you ever heard of a church that had service every night? That one did, and we were usually there.
Its been a pleasure meeting you ........Ron

I see the "how did she do" question has evolved into an all out debate on the election in general. I have even noticed religion has been injected into the equation now. For the suggestion that perhaps the war in Iraq violates religious beliefs, I have two words "The Crusades" I'm certainly no historian on war or religion but I'm pretty sure more people have died in the name of religion than for any other reason in history of the world. I've also seen comments pertaining to college grades, So what, we all know book smart idiots don't we. It's not like grades can't be manufactured, how else could we explain some of those football playing college graduates. All the candidates deserve to be treated with respect, that should include sexest slams along with racial. As far as the qualifications of our candidates, that is obviously extremely subjective and more than likely is going to be colored by preconceived beliefs. I dare say most of us, weather we will admit or not, were raised by our parents to be Democrats or Republicans and to sway from that position would be almost inconceivable. You all know what I mean, the old "Republicans are for the rich" or the "Democrats tax and spend" and countless other beliefs that have been passed down from generation to generation. In my opinion probably the greatest president this nation ever had was Teddy Roosevelt, that right Mr. "Trust Buster himself. He did more for the working class American than any president before or since. Go up against big business, he must have been a Democrat, no he was a Republican. I wonder how many here can say they wanted Obama or McCain when their party primaries started. I know neither one was my choice but as is so often the case the candidate we like doesn't make it to the general election. For the most part I blame the media. They will tell you from the beginning who's worthy and who's not and who is going to win, so you think, well my guy doesn't have a chance , no sense in my voting. Next thing you know you have the choices that were preselected for you. Lets face it, the networks news agencies are no longer news agencies. They have become huge public opinion machines that will tell you what they want you to know, if certain information isn't conducive to the candidate they endorse then they will either omit the information, down play the information or twist it into what works for their agenda. I have first hand experience with interviews, I was interviewed on a local news channel a few years ago, by the time it had been edited and aired on the TV, they had twisted what I had said into the total opposite of my intent. I have a challenge for some of you, for every hour of CNBC you watch, watch an hour of FOX news. It won't take long before you see which candidate they endorse, but in the process, and more important, you will also see that there are two sides to every issue. Food for thought. I wonder what a classified ad would look like for the position of "President of the United States". Like most high profile jobs in the private sector I'm sure there would be a minimum work experience provision and of course the good ole "must pass an extensive background check". Should we expect any less for arguably the most powerful position in the world, I don't think so.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

LL, I thought you would come back to visit, glad you did. I really don't care what anyone posts on my threads as long as no personal attacks take place, I just love the interaction.

As far as the news media, absolutely without a doubt they all have an agenda. When I first discovered that years ago, I remembered thinking, how bizarre is that, I had always thought that they just presented thr news, duh. From what I read the powerful, H.L. Menken could sway public opinion with his newspapers, but I'm sure it went on way before him.

Just remembered, I have the day off, so I think I'll watch the Palin/fey SNL thing someone sent me........Ron

Yeh Ron, every once in awhile I get enough verbage stored up in my feeble little mind and have to let my fingers go forth. I do tend to get carried away, but I don't take presidential elections lightly. Four years is a long time and it is important to try and get it right. A day off is always good, being the self employed kinda guy I am I have a real hard time trying to not have to many days off. Sometimes I loose the arguement. Your off, I'm off, lets have a beer

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

This place is indeed a place to learn new things Ron. Until I saw it here I didn't have any idea who this Tina Fey is or was. I'd heard the name on Faux News recently and here and over on FreeRepublic but that was about all. Now I know her name is tied to that show SNL and a skit she has done on Sarah Palin. To be honest I haven't watched any part of SNL for about six or seven years now and before that I had watched maybe a total of 60 minutes totally combined and not more than about 10 to 15 minutes at any one time. At least I tried to watch it.

It's that their brand of humor never seemed to have any appeal to me. I like humor but not all humor. I guess I'm just too square for that particular brand. I'm sure others find humor in it but I'm one that doesn't. It's all a matter of personal likes and dislikes. I'm told that's why they make not only vanilla ice cream they also make strawberry and chocolate flavors.

Hey, since you're off work today then you might be a government worker or school teacher or the such. I seem to recall that Columbus Day is pretty much a government holiday. My 40 or so years of working I can't seem to remember getting that particular holiday off from work. So tell us, why are you out of bed then on a holiday? Heheheh.

You're probably like me in one sense in that even though I'm retired I still rise and try to shine early enough to wake the rooster to get him off to work before sunrise. I don't know why, 30 year habit I guess. In any event it is about time to head out the door soon and climb on my cruiser and head across town (sixty five miles) to go visiting family. See ya'll later provided some 4-wheeler doesn't try to use me for target practice.

Ronny D

I normally don't indulge until after 12 noon, but what the hell, it's 11:30, close enough....

Everyday opens at 6am...

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Actually Ronny, this holiday scedule is fairly new to me, I'm used to just having the basic holidays off. I normally work 7 days a week , but I'm not complaining, just thankful I have a good job. I just want more for my family than we had growing up, just like any father wants, so it's all good. Since LL has me drinking already, I'll have a brew with you too...Ron