Karaoke Forums

Yeah the eq settings could have been a factor, or the room acoustics weren't favoring a crossover point possibly.
dbx just made a Driverack especially designed & optimized for powered speakers.

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Any company who does actual KJ "training" (as opposed to hiring any warm body who can show up and work a mixer) who is worth learning FROM will have you sign a non-compete contract. Depending on the laws in your state, it could prevent you from starting your own karaoke company within a certain radius of their operations. Might it be overturned in court? Perhaps. But meanwhile your out money for a lawyer, and while the case is pending you could get a temporary injunction keeping you from working.

And when you think about it, doesn't it make sense? Here's a company taking their time to share their proprietary knowledge they've learned over time through their experience and the school of hard knocks with you in the hopes you will become a longtime employee. Is it fair for someone to bop in for a couple of months of gigs knowing all along they will start their own business?

For anyone with aspirations of getting into this business, I would recommend utlilizing the collected body of knowledge already out there on forums such as this from those already in the karaoke "trenches". There you can get gear, music and performance tips. Find some sources for "guerrilla marketing" or "marketing on a shoestring" too because you will habe to bear some of the burden of promoting your own show too

Go to several different shows in your area to see how other local hosts do their thing. Remember, if you want to be in that same market you're going to be "competing" with them. So you better do something better or different to make a name for yourself (i.e. why should someone hire YOU instead of who's already out there?)

Then put together some marketing materials on yourself (a one-sheet will do) that presents your show, your personality, your gear, your library. Do your homework of what bars already offer karaoke (as I said I see nothing wrong with prospecting to those venues) as well as others which might benefit from a karaoke night. Better to make calls to get the name of the person in charge first, rather than make cold calls. Bar owners are notorious for having weird (often early morning) hours.

Then get out there and let the world know you're in business!

By the way, regarding my previous comment about presenting an adult show...YES it sometimes does mean crude language and references. What differentiates an "R" film from a "PG" one? Usually it's language or sexual themes. A majority of people go to bars to connect with the opposite sex! Take a look at what the singers do while they're singing "Like A Virgin", "I Touch Myself" or similarly-themed songs. They're calling attention to themselves and their sexuality! Add alcohol and you know that people aren't there seeking a tiddly-winks partner.

Again I'll add a lot of it has to do with your crowd and your room. People singing karaoke at Denny's might be there more because they enjoy singing than to be part of a party scene.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Yeah I am familiar with the so called non-compete clause. I actually contracted a host from a local company years ago, the host decided he wanted to work for me. They supposedly had a non-compete clause. He fought it & won because he was not actually competing for their business just going to work for another company. As this is done every day in business, they didn't have a leg to stand on.
When he did finally go into business for himself, they tried to pull it on him again. He won again as the clause prohibited him working within 25 mile radius. Well he worked in Bremerton, the contract was written up for Federal Way.

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For some reason my post keeps disappearing in mid-sentence but here is try #3. Have to support the Lonman on buying good sound. Most places in our area have professional grade equipment and we couldn't compete if we had bad sound. We haven't officially started yet but have done some practice runs at a small local place on a night they don't regularly have karaoke. The one thing people have commented on most is how they like the sound.

As to the investment, it is not so bad as trying to start a bar/restaurant. We had some household emergencies and a few misteps so have to wait to get some more "investment" for business licenses, insurance, etc. before officially pounding the pavement. But unlike other businesses, we aren't paying rent or employee salaries or buying perishables that go bad before we can sell them, etc. while we wait. So the risk is survivable. Can't say the same for one of the places we had hoped to play--they already went under.

Now, you guys already know that I have little expertise when it comes to sound systems; I just know what I like. My wife, furthermore, is usually "right-on" when she doesn't like a system or how I've adjusted mine. And she's the one that helps get my settings right.

We both didn't like the EVxx250's; some of the regulars complained, and a DJ friend also was disappointed. I'm told it was primarily the poor bass response that was at fault and those speakers cost $835 a piece. As to settings, the final decision was made based upon settings in Sam Ash's "studio" using various speakers and compatible components. Please don't ask me more, because while I was there I, again, only listened for what I liked. My partner, our DJ friend, myself and the salesman, all came to the same conclusion about what sounded best.

the non-compete clause contract isn't worth the paper you wipe your butt from!

Eeeew ! Is that what that streak is? I always thought it was a bad printer.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I worked for a guy that did no-competes. The mileage radius idea is so much hooey. Non-enforcable. What this guy stipulated was that you agreed to not compete at and attempt to take gigs that his company already had established . IE agree not to quit, and go in and undercut his gigs at bars where he already had shows----A MUCH MORE ENFORCABLE and REASONABLE AGREEMENT. As it was I ended up quiting after a couple months and went to another place across the river from his gig that had no affiliation from him. So no problems for either party.

As far as trying to stipulate a no-compete based on some training or expereince you may have received as a learner, thats non-sense. There is really no "Proprietary" information that can be gleaned from one place to another. DJ'ing is DJ'ing. Soundboards are soundboards. And unless you are using the otherguy's trademarks or copyrighted logos or names without permission theres nothing to be said about it.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Lots of very good ideas have surfaced in reference to starting out in the Karaoke business, including important points about "non-compete" contracts. Also, the observation regarding the reality that Kj’s do not have to endure many of the fixed expenses that a bar or similar establishment might have during "bad times", cannot be ignored when considering the benefits of doing karaoke.

Most of you have indicated that you wouldn't consider anything other than “professional grade” equipment when starting out. I would never dispute from afar what someone else’s experience is with their local market.

Meanwhile, I actually encountered something I was concerned about when I started out --- the purchase of a piece of expensive “professional equipment” that didn’t cut it. For those of you who are not familiar with the equipment I personally use and prefer--- it's a Fender Passport. I have received numerous compliments about my sound and never have had a single complaint regarding it from my audience.
Perhaps, geographic location makes a difference as to what is expected from a karaoke show? Mcky57 indicated he's not been, generally speaking, impressed with the sound systems he's encountered in Florida

Meanwhile, I would like receive the same courtesy I have displayed to those on this forum in other markets ---that you accept my observation about the effectiveness of my equipment in my local market. And let’s not ignore the fact that one of our fellow posters, DBK1009, lives nearby and has been to my shows and agrees that my system does the job that it’s called upon to do in the types of venues in which I use it! And to remind you, DBK was awarded the prize in a local KJ competition for having the best sound system! Furthermore, in regard to karaoke in Fl, if anything it is on the decline in popularity. The need to use caution in determining how much one invests in such a marketplace cannot be overstated!

More importantly, I offer the following “food for thought”: when one tries to determine how much to invest in doing karaoke, you can't just look at it from the bottom up. THAT IS ---you can't decide what should be invested in a business solely based upon how much money you have available and are willing to spend.

Consider this: I ventured into to karaoke with the hope that it would supplement my retirement income --- not to live off of as my sole source of income. Since I am still working full-time and am still learning the karaoke business, I am happy doing one public venue each week. On the other hand, when I actually retire, move to Las Vegas, and do karaoke more frequently, I will re-evaluate what I need to accomplish that successfully!

If you understand my goals and perspective, you’ll appreciate why I am recommending that anyone entering the business consider evaluating their needs as I did mine --- by looking at the business from the top down.

(1) Is KJ'ing going to be a part-time or full-time venture?
(2) Do you plan to do private parties, public venues or both?
(3) Based upon the foregoing, what is the most you can make (NET) after paying income and payroll taxes, interest expenses, insurance and gasoline to and from the gigs?
(4) How hard will it be to find the first job, particularly without prior experience? The answer to that may lie in your salesmanship skills and/or willingness to BS about what you have done up till "now". Or, of course, you can simply decide to work for virtually nothing in order to cut your teeth, build some following and develop references.
(5) What will your marketing efforts cost you as to: time; gas; literature and other promo materials, mailings; website, etc. while you're looking for the first gig(s)?
(6) How much will you spend on interest and insurance expense until you're employed?
(7) Do you keep purchasing up-to-date karaoke tracks while you're looking for work?

While I am only want to work one day a week, just as things were really starting to "get going", my mom passed away forcing me to set karaoke aside altogether. She lived in Vegas and I'm in Florida and the demands of settling her estate have been overwhelming. I'm now again looking for a new gig for the first time since May.

Lastly and most important:
I've had my equipment for two years and have only used it about thirty times. Nonetheless, I have probably broken even on my investment and everyday expenses of running the business. So, I'm not complaining. And while my life has clearly not gone the way I would have liked since I started investing in karaoke, I do know now that I can accomplish what I want with it. And if my equipment should ever prove to be inadequate for the jobs I seek, I’d wouldn’t hesitate for a second to get at least what my partner has, or better! I know now that I can make karaoke work for me, even here in S Florida!!!

Maybe geography plays a part of what is expected is possibly true as well, if the systems people are used to singing on are not good to begin with then something like the Passport may be a leap & bound above what they are used to. Although I have went to shows that claim the best system/sound/etc. & can't believe my ears when I hear it thinking how can anyone honestly think this is good sound?
The Passport, even the biggest one, wouldn't even cut it for me. Not enough power, not enough oomph. We run a club concert style sound, complete with subs & approx 3600 watts. The Passport just isn't enough for that kind of environment.



Would like to know the makeup of his system actually & who was judging this competition.
Decline in popularity maybe just possible because kj's don't invest & take their business serious, don't learn their equipment, develop no hosting skills to speak of & people are getting tired of it? I know I have heard similar stories around here as well.



It's never been about what you are willing to spend. You outline a budget & get the best you can get in that budget. Cheaper the budget, the sound/selection starts to suffer. Anyone going into business shouldn't half (@$%&#!) it, ANY business. If you are going to do something - do it right to begin with. I see people wanting to keep their startup under $1000 for both music & selection Sorry, this is not going to happen unless you just are content playing dives that don't pay, then sure you could. I would always outline anyone starting in karaoke to budget about $5K for everything, which would consist of a fairly decent 'legal' library & kickin system with all the goodies/misc like books, cords, cable, pens, etc...(many people do not consider these things in their budgets when coming up with a figure).

I always tell new companies to plan for the biggest venue you can see yourself doing & purchase for that. It will actually save you in the long run as you will not have to spend more money upgrading.

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I agree with you Lon I bought my set ups one piece at a time got the best I could afford now i don't have regular weekly gig but use it for home stereo. My moto YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU dave

Well, I agree that disc addiction is a major problem when first starting out--after that great high of having them all pour in, it is sort of depressing to have to wait until the money starts coming before ordering more. But that's the situation at the moment.

Also, I think the sound thing could be geographic as you state. A friend lives in a tiny resort town and the karaoke place there has such bad muffled sound that he says you can't tell if the singer is singing or if you can, what is being sung. But it is THE hangout and the place is jammed. The sound could have more to do with the person running it than the cost of the equipment but I guess it goes to show that you CAN do karaoke with just about anything.

HOWEVER--we are in a small town also but with casinos nearby and people are used to hearing the best that money can buy. So we got the best that we could buy. It wasn't the top of the line--Yamaha Clubs--but they put out a nice clear sound. The thing is, they haven't been used outside the living room.

Most of the bars/clubs that plan to have music have their own speakers in place so a person could skip buying speakers at first if they were willing to stick to just those places for a while. We noticed that most of the in-place speaker systems around us were passive and after having the Lonman explain about having enough amp to provide the proper power, we bought a Yamaha amp and non-powered mixer instead of the powered mixer we were planning on. We thought that would not only make our own speakers sound better but also fit more with what the clubs already had in place. Wouldn't want to blow someone else's expensive speakers.......maybe I am all wet in that reasoning as I am the money person and not the technical person but that is how it shook out for us.

I was hoping to hear more from some of you regarding the disappointment we experienced with the EV's. I must say that the QSC's are awesome and I am a bit envious that I'm not using them. Everyone is just astounded by the sound, including a KJ who just went out on her own after years of working for someone else! She just bought the QSC's this past weekend, even though she had just purchased different speakers. Believe me, not every show here uses a "Singing Machine"

Ironically, two of the places my partner plays are quite large and have their own systems and he doesn't even take the QSC's. We haven't yet figured if there is anyway I can put them to use on those nights without making any serious additional investment. Meanwhile, there are plenty of opportunites for me to do karaoke in smaller venues in which my Passport works just fine.

Paying more for equipment does not insure satisfaction with the sound you get. All of the components must be in harmony or balance with each other to achieve success with the sound you are going after. It must also be matched with the venues you intend to go after. Then it requires good mixing skills and you can't purchase those you have to learn that by trial and error. Some folks have an ear for it and others do not.

Careful research prior to purchasing is essential to getting it right.

Doing this on a small budget is very tricky if not downright impossible to accomplish. In my opinion it is better to wait until you have enough money to purchase the components that will match the venues you are going after. If you do you will never be unhappy with your purchases.

The only time I have ever been unhappy with equipment purchases in the past was when I decided to go the cheaper route. A good example is wireless microphones, I must have spent about $2,000 over the years on cheap wireless mics and once I stepped up to the plate and bought the $400 Shures my troubles went away. I could have saved tons of money had I just bought them in the first place but nooooo I had to learn my lesson the hard way...

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

The KJ I took over for used speakers he bought for $25 off the back of someone's truck and used them for 6 yrs. I don't know what kind they were, but they made most people sound like they were singing from the bottom of an ocean.

I live in a Chicago Suburb. Lets face it - Most owners of venues don't even ask what kind of equipment you have and if you bring in a crowd, don't care. If you live in populated areas or not, it doesn't matter.

What matters here is if you can get gigs. If you can bring a crowd you can get gigs, regardless of what kind of equipment.

I take pride in the sound and selection of songs I provide, but that is a personal preference.

It may depend on how saturated your area is with KJs, it may depend on how educated your patrons are on sound, but I don't think it has anything to do with if you live in a small town or a big city. That is just my opinion coming from someone that lives in a suburb of 40,000 people and surrounded by many suburbs of equal or more people.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Well I asked what the disappointment was between the two?

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This is all I was able to provide regarding why the EVV speakers were reacted to so negatively by: myself and my wife, a few in the audience and an experienced DJ friend

Re: Karaoke As A Business

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:23 pm

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Now, you guys already know that I have little expertise when it comes to sound systems; I just know what I like. My wife, furthermore, is usually "right-on" when she doesn't like a system or how I've adjusted mine. And she's the one that helps get my settings right.

We both didn't like the EVxx250's; some of the regulars complained, and a DJ friend also was disappointed. I'm told it was primarily the poor bass response that was at fault and those speakers cost $835 a piece. As to settings, the final decision was made based upon settings in Sam Ash's "studio" using various speakers and compatible components. Please don't ask me more, because while I was there I, again, only listened for what I liked. My partner, our DJ friend, myself and the salesman, all came to the same conclusion about what sounded best.

Well, the QSC is undoubtedly a great speaker. But I think something was wrong with the way the EVs were set up, because they are really good too. I would find it very, very, unusual for customers to complain about them if they were properly set up.

"Poor bass response" sounds like an unusual complaint for those kind of speakers if they had the same size woofer. But sometimes taste is simply a factor.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I can't disagree that sometimes it's simply a matter of "taste". Ironically, my wife and I didn't like the EVV's that were originally in use, either. And two of the same customers complained about the original and replacement EVV's. I would love to have an understanding of why both models of EVV elicited the same reaction from the same people? My partner never questioned either pair of EVV's until others voiced their concerns. He quickly, though, realized that their was something "wrong" with his new pair!

Meanwhile, as I said, I'm really envious of the QSC's!

Well, if it is EVV maybe it isn't what we think. The brand I am thinking of is EV, i.e. Electro-Voice. They are a top brand in that price range.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.