Karaoke Forums

A general observation:

Undercutting, backstabbing, taking crowds, taking gigs, stealing KJ's, trying to drive each other or barowners out of business. Hoping one or the other fails, quits or gets fired. The glee and satisfaction of seeing that happen. AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON!! Makes a pretty sorry statement about the state of the so-called
"KARAOKE PROFESSION".

From reading recent threads here and many in the past I cant help but reach the conclusion that KJ'ing is just a nasty, slimey, cut-throat and back-stabbing business.

I know its happened to me on more than one occaision, Ive been vicitimized and I certainely have not been unhappy to hear that someone I didnt like lost a gig or got it stolen out from under them.

I admit my guilt and own my own garbage.

A very recent example of this(just this week) happend to some friends of mine who have a KJ biz and at one of their gigs thier weekend KJ went behind thier backs and got the bar owner to 86 them and give the gig EXCLUSIVLY to him.
UNDERHANDED and LACKING ALL INTEGRITY!! (I think this guy had been screwin' the lady owner to get the gig).

And it never ends.

Ive been offered sleazy and slimey proposals to steal a gig from the guy that hired me(Ive mentioned this in other posts) and watched other KJ's try to sabotage one another(had that done to me).

Makes me kind of glad to not be more involved than doing fill-ins and certainly keeps me from wanting to get involved with it again at any greater level.

Conversly there have been a number of people here that run thier businesses with honesty and integrity. But it seems that there may be LESS of them than MORE as I encounter, meet and read stories both here and in the field.

Jsut makes a real sorry, nasty statement about the state of our KJ PROFESSION and Business in general.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I hate to break it to you, but jobs and employment in general are the same way. This country has become a very nasty, hyper-competitive, backstabbing place full of ripoffs and slimy people with slimy business practices.


Entertainers and entertainment are seen as an expense not as an asset or something important. We have people here that will work nearly for free just because they want to perform. It makes it much more difficult for everyone to get a decent price. It's all about money and many venues don't care about anything else. I'm struggling with this right now and trying to make a reputation that will get me more money and put myself in demand. It's a process that takes time and a lot of effort, I call it paying your dues. I wish I had started this when I was younger.

I hear you.

Personally I don't do undercutting, stealing shows, etc. I would never walk into a venue with the intention to steal a show. And I visit other shows sometimes, just to see the competition, how they run their shows, etc.

The only time I get involved with someone else's show is, when I get called from a venue or the manager/owner approaches me personally. Means, if they do the first step. That has happened to me quite a few times. In this case, I don't have any intention to steal the show, but obviously they liked my shows better. And all of them are still happy with me to this day. And I always ask for my price, which is sometimes higher as what they paid before.

That brings me to your story. I know, it sucks for your friends, but could there be a possibility, that the other KJ is just simple better? Not necessarily sound/song selection, but maybe drawing people into the place? A Bar owner basically cares about, what they have in the register at the end of the night. I'm just guessing here...

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to upset you more than you obviously are right now. Just trying to give you a different perspective.

Kurt from experience in other businesses the shade tree mechanics and those repairung tv's in their garage are gradually put out of business. They are put out business when the pros band rogether and establish prices and honest working standards.

People finally realize they get what they pay for. We use to have a saying If you are going to get a vasectomy and somebody down the street does it for $10 and I charge $500 Who do you want?

I just do this for extra income and retired so I am too old to go thru business processes like I have in the past. One thing I am doing now is forming a group of bars bands KJ'S and singers in Colorado on myspace. If nothing else when I get a party request and am booked elsewhere I can give a recommendation for a good replacement.

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That's hilarious, JD.

Stogie, I would have to agree with you. I used to be a land surveyor. You wanna talk about cut-throat, lying, back-stabbing, etc. Several times I've had a subordinate lie about me to try to take my position. It's everywhere. After being screwed over time after time, I just decided that I don't have to care about anyone else but what's in my best interest. I could care less if I "steal" someone else's gig, or step on anyone's toes. If you want to succeed, you have to stop caring about others.

Nice guys finish last.

You can believe that. I find that dealing with integrity pays off in myriad ways. Not the least in the ability to sleep at night. I also find that most successful business people do deal with some amount of integrity. You can say "nice guys finish last", but I say "time wounds all heels". In the big city it is easier to shuck and jive to different places and screw people over, but even that gets around.

Lying is one thing. But simply competing in business is another. I don't expect to be unassailable. If I expect that, I am naive. My business reputation is for dealing fairly with others. If someone "steals" my gig, one of two thing has happened. 1) I wasn't doing the right kind of job, or 2) the venue owner isn't the type of person I want to work with. In one case I just don't deserve the gig, and in the other I don't want it.

If someone *can* steal your gig, I suggest you aren't doing a very good job of keeping the lines of communication open with your customer.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

mcky57,

I like that way you put that about the reasons that you 'lost' the gig, not having it stole from you. This happened to me too. I had a gig, that the owner called me and asked me to take the Friday Night, they had a Saturday Night guy that used to do Fridays too. I accepted and worked there for a few months, all the while the Saturday Night guy throwing a fit and doing everything he could to sabotage the Friday Night. We were doing pretty well, I got it thrown back at me soon enough. The owner said they wanted to go back to the other guy, for reasons that just were plain bs, I know for 100% fact...we were doing better than the Saturday Nights. That didn't matter though. It was a good lesson, I took it with a grain of salt...ok, nice working for you and MOVED ON! Well I was in there last Friday Night..guess what, they closed an hour early because of a lack of crowd. That is my payback right there. What enjoyment that brings....MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Unfortunately Stogie I have to agree with you---not just in the DJ field but with bands also and entertainment in general.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

someone who I THOUGHT was a friend tryed to steal at least one of my shows. The one place that I know of is cause the manager told me that my so called friend was in offering to do two shows for free if they could get the shows. The bar owner laughed at him to his face and told him they didn't want anyone who had to give himself away. They had a guy before me who worked cheap, they don't want that troubble any more. I do my best never to try to or hope for harm to another KJ. In this "friends" case however I now have no trust and no respect for him. we now do wednesday nights 2 blocks appart. I used to split shows at his venue with him but felt that the quality of his show was hurting mine and that one wednesday a month was not worth my time. The venue i am in now is FAR nicer and a better location, so Im hoping it is good for me in time. Bad for him wouldn't hurt my feelings.

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

A place I used to go to sing went through KJ's about every 5 months. I think they had 4 or 5 different KJ's in two years. I doubt that it had much to do with how good or bad the KJ was. In fact, sometimes the KJ can do an extremely slack job and yet still have a job, or heck even a contract! I mean, the songs books (sometimes there's only one book or part of a book, if you can even find that) are falling apart, there are no slips or pencils--you have to use a coaster and borrow a pen from the bartender (and the bartender doesn't even get upset that they are doing the KJ's job)! But somehow, these kj's manage to hang on, or if they eventually lose the job, they bob back up like a cork a couple miles away! It's mind boggling and kind of funny too! I think the owners look at whether the KJ is making an incremental additional profit for them, not how good it really could be if they really had their act together.

There is really no telling when someone who has been replaced has actually lost their job due to their own performance, or has be undermined by a cut-throat co-worker/competitor who has "stolen" that job away.

A man I KJ'd for just briefly before he died told me that in his varied career, no one had ever stolen a customer from him; if a customer went somewhere else it was because he had LOST the customer. He told me this as I was replacing a "friend" at his establishment.

While I believe there is truth and wisdom in what he told me, I also have seen circumstances where a beguiling person can sell a rational person on the most preposterous of ideas. And when that rational person is in dire financial straits, there's no telling what he/she might be willing to believe. People grasp unto straws to save their businesses everyday.

Yes, KJ'ing is cut-throat. Each of us have our own mirrors to look into every morning. I do not resent anyone for taking a job from me unless: they bad-mouth me, lie about me, tell an owner that they have a following of a bazillion people, cut prices to a ridiculous level! If they come in and convince the owner the fact they have a better show, and have references to proof what they say, maybe they should be given a shot, particularly if my show is underperforming?

Threads like this make me wonder how long I'm going to be at this. I just don't have it in me to get down and dirty. So far I haven't had to. If that's what it takes for me to stay employed in the future I'm out.

But I also question the wisdom of hiring out someone to actively KJ a room for you on a regular basis. It just seems to me that all the forces would be working against you. Gradually you would lose touch of the room while the KJ employee would be getting more and more familiar with the operation and singers. Wouldn't it be inevitable that somewhere along the way both the room and the KJ you hired would want to cut you out of the action?

I've never considered hiring someone else to run my system but to those of you who have, am I wrong?

You're not wrong, Bill.

Ultimately, hiring a KJ to work for you is in essence hiring your eventual replacement, or it could turn into it.

There are a few things that used to be detriments to this from happening... CDGs that cost so friggin' much to have a decent selection.

But with so many that don't buy their music, which is 95% of the investment of karaoke companies, seems there are more and more kjs that sprout up.

Heck, even when the legit kj comes after a gig I had, it was frustrating!

good topic Kurt

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Thats all I ever post----IS GOOD TOPICS--Vicky!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Bill-Thats an interesting observation---the guy that was hiring me to fill in for him(VERY REGULALRY--almost twice a month at one point) was getting too enamored of doing off-site gigs with me covering for him. Im certain thats why he contiued to lose his bar gigs(3 since I did fill-ins for him). Barowners got tired of him not being there regularly and making them the prioirty customer of his services--tried to have his cake and eat it too. I could easily have taken the gigs for myself---infact thed frist barowner approacched me to do just that. If the situation presents itself in the future I may just in fact do that--kinda tiring having gigs disappear after only a few months-as the guy has cost me money by losing the gigs.
Just take the gigs myself and work close with the barowner and concentrate solely on building that gig instead of making the barowner play second fiddle.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

which kurt is why I set my price at the beginning of the year and stick to it, that way it doesnt matter whether its a wedding or a bar gig I am getting paid the same so I would never look at renegging on a booking and have someone else fill in...its wrong, it tells the bar owner you only value their custom if you have nothing better to do and it tells the couple getting married or having a birthday that it is your license to print money because its a special occasion

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Sleeping with the owner......Ah what the hell I'll take one for the team.