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Diafel - I love your spunk ! I love that you aren't willing to settle for less. My hope for you is you end up at the new bar for $200 a night, but if it doesn't happen you've at least gotten an extra $25 out of the old owner. You aren't letting anyone push you around and I respect that ! Being a woman in the business is hard.

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Ok, here's the update.
Last Thursday, when I wasn't sure if I was moving or not, I had a new group come in for the first time. They are mostly from Chile and are here to learn English. Their ESL teacher brought them in. She thought it would be a good way to help learn English.
They also were impressed that I had a bit of a Spanish library. (I NEED to get more!)
Well, they had a blast and the teacher told me they would be back every week for the next 10 months or so. I let her know on the sly that I might be moving to the other pub next week so they could find me.
Talks with the new owner ended last Friday and he tried to call me several times later that day. I never returned his calls as he didn't leave any messages and I saw no point to further negotiations.
Last night, when I arrived at my gig, there was a table reserved. I thought it was a little strange but very good news if they are reserving for my show. (It's unusual around here to resevre a table in ANY bar).
Well, it was my Chilean group! I spoke briefly with the teacher and she told me she had called the other bar to check if I was there and they told her that I had not moved and that I was staying where I was.
Now I wonder how many calls he would have got if I had told any others....
And I'm wishing I had!

I'm glad she called and now he knows he could have had a very GOOD customer following.
I don't think he believed me when I said that I had a following and that *most* of my singers were very loyal.
He didn't want to play ball.....
His loss.

Oh, and I forgot:
One of the things that bothered me about the new venue is he had mentioned that he called a guy in another city. He told me the guy would wear a tux and have a fancy show and the whole bit.
My show is casual and I dress neatly but comfortably.
New venue wanted me to start wearing dresses (Shoes would KILL me - My knee and foot are bad enough thank you!) and dress upscale.
My singers are casual. They like the NON-pressure. They are not professionals and don't want to pretend to be.
They like the laid back atmosphere I put out and it attracts far more NEW singers than new venue's idea of a show would.
His way would be far too intimidating for many of my newbies.
That was just another of his ideas that I didn't like. I did tell him briefly that my singers like casual, but I also didn't want to tell him too much about them because he doesn't know Karaoke at all and I sure don't want to help him learn if he's going to be my competition!

Formailty is expensive and costs about ten times as much.

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You have to wear dresses? Well that would leave me out. I can't stand all night in heels. I usually always wear sneakers because my feet are screaming by the end of the night. You can look nice without wearing dresses when you work. Sounds like this guy is worried about all the wrong things.

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I probably would have suggested that he should wear a dress and heels as well, that that would certainly draw a crowd. Foggy day in HE@@ that I'd be sporting heels and a dress to work a karaoke show.

Thank you ladies!
You both echo my sentiments exactly.
I can NOT wear heels at all. My back will not have it and my bad knee and bad foot will not be able to stand it.
My shoes MUST be real leather, not plastic, as I find my feet will beat me up for a week after if I try to wear cheap imitation crap.
As for nice dress flats, they simply don't exist.The closest I can find is deck shoes .
It's expensive to have to go out and buy dresses and all the trappings that go with it.
I wasn't willing to do it and I'm still not.
Comfort is number one for me right now and as Babs pointed out, you can still look nice without dresses.

And Karyoker, I agree totally. It's more expensive AND turns alot of people off.
They just want to sing. It's not Star Search or American Idol for Pete's sake.
But then, new venue owner was the first to say,"I don't know Karaoke. I'm not a karaoke person".
Then why won't he listen to the person who is?
Numpty.

We had a company around here that advertised karaoke and their big thing was all KJs would be dressed in a tux! No mention of sound capability, no mention of extensive song libraries...just his KJs in a tux. Hell, I can put a monkey in a tux and it might be entertaining for a bit, but it won't matter a hill of beans if the people don't enjoy their karaoke experience.

Well put, lordairgtar!

Thank you.

Here's the update to the update.
New venue owner hired a girl who USED to do regular karaoke gigs years ago but only does the occasional private party now.
Her first night was on Thursday.
I sent my "spies" over to check it out and apparently she had only 8 - 10 people (all her friends, so I'm told). There were only 3 singers, including herself. Her books were very thin in the song department. She apparently did not have much of a library (she didn't years ago, either).
Also, she apparently didn't have anything newer than songs from about 8 years ago.
The other thing is that her books apparently had no organization to them. They weren't even in alphabetical order (so I was told).
As for sound, I was told it sounded quite thin and had no volume to it.
I don't think I have much to worry about, but I will still double my effort to keep on top of it.
New venue owner didn't want to pay for the best and now he hopes to compete with an eighth of the show....
Apparently he thinks he knows what he's doing....
Previously, he claimed to me..."I don't know karaoke and I don't know karaoke people."
At least he got that part right!

ummm did I miss something? this other venue offered you the gig and you turned it down...so now you are spying on them? Shouldnt you just wish them well and ensure you are giving 100% to your own?

if I have overlooked something that explains that you are now in direct competition with someoen who says they will ruin your business then please excuse me...but if not then you made your decision so just move on

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Morgan:
unfortunately you did miss something.
In a tiny nutshell:
New venue owner tried to get me to leave old venue in order to "crush him".
He only wanted to pay me what I was already getting paid and didn't want to give me a guarantee of six months work.
He wanted me to change the way I dressed, thereby changing the atmosphere of my show, all the while telliing me he "doesn't know karaoke".
New venue owner's motivation did not sit well with me. That and the lack of motivation to leave my established, already very successful venue, (one that I've built up for the last 7 months) made me decide to stay right where I am.
New venue owner had told me, " I can hire you or somebody else, it doesn't matter to me". I told him to go hire somebody else. And now he has, but got an eighth of the show for it.
I know the girl he's got hosting. She's nice enough and I did send my best wishes to her through a mutual friend who was going over. But she runs a low energy show. She tends to sing alot of ballads and Celine Dion-type songs, thereby setting the tone of the show. She has a rather meek personality and cannot "take command" of a crowd . She doesn't know how to party or how to handle a party crowd.
As for sending my "spies", he sends his weekly (his wife and their pub cook)and in fact sent his spies to my show at the beginning of the night. I felt justified in sending mine (my daughter) for the first time EVER to his venue.
Tit for tat. Fair's fair.
I intend to work extra hard to see that his mission fails. (And yes, I feel bad for the host, but that's life).

ok then I didnt miss anything

my comment stands...it was YOUR choice not to accept the change of employment and the strings it had...so why would you wish anyone ill over YOUR choice?

Sorry I dont get it

But then one of my pet peeves has always been why a band/dj/kj would charge sometimes 3 or 4 times more to do a wedding or NY eve? Are we not always intending to do our best no matter the gig? I refuse to change my price...if someone phones and I am available and the gig suits our style of doing things then that person gets me at the price I have set for the year...doesnt matter if its a pub or a wedding, it is the same price no matter what.

What I am saying in a round about fashion and something Kurt alluded to in another thread is I value integrity. I don't under cut and neither do I inflate my price on certain days or for special occasions...and I sure as hell would wish someone well not try and spy on them when they took a job that I turned down

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Yes you DID miss something.
Where did I say I wish them ill?
What I said was that I will do what it takes to ensure that his mission fails.
Said mission being to "crush" my venue owner just because he had the foresight to hire me for karaoke and gain a good crowd.
HE (my venue owner) was minding his business and still is. Not looking to hurt anyone else's business as the other guy is.
Maybe if the other guy concentrated on running as good a business as he can, without worrying what the other guy is up to, he might be able to get customers and turn a profit
As for the other host, I'm sorry she has been dragged in the middle of this as I have been.
I wish her no ill will and I have not stated ANYWHERE that I do.



Perhaps my choice of the word "spy" has mislead you to the wrong conclusion.
Sorry about that.
It was meant to be more of an interesting and fun turn of the phrase, not a literal interpretation.
Heck, the other venue owner sent his wife and cook in to my venue to check it out and I returned the compliment.
They didn't sneak in the back door, wear disguises or otherwise try to hide who they were.
There never was anything sneaky or underhanded about it.
I sent my daughter over to their venue for a quick head count and to see what her show was about.
She didn't sneak in the back door, wear disguises or otherwise try to hide who she was either.
Certainly nothing underhanded about that.
Oh, and if you had read my other post thoroughly, you would have seen that I did, in fact, wish the other host well. I sent my greeting through a mutual friend.
And yes, I meant it.

I inflate my prices on "certain days" out of necessity.
Like Halloween this year.
I have to pay my babysitter extra to get her to come.
That gets passed on to the venue and I told them so.
There were happy to pay the extra because they know my show brings in the custies who spend.
On New Years, it will be the same thing.
Why would I do a gig for $175 and have to pay my sitter $150 of it.
That would mean, if I didn't inflate my prices, that I would get $25 for the night.
That barely pays for my gas to drive to the venue and back.
Just doesn't make sense.
Around here, venues are used to paying higher prices for their biggest night of the year.
It's called business.

EDIT: (Crap! hit the submit button accidentally before I was done!)

I also have higher prices for my one-off gigs, such as parties and weddings etc.
I have a base price that I start from for a one-off.
What I've done is not that I charge the one-off's MORE, but I charge my regular, weekly gigs LESS because they give me repeat business.
Hardly gouging my customers.
Again, it's called business and good business at that.

My prices stay the same for holidays if it lands on my regularly scheduled days for my standard gig. If I'm doing a special occasion that is booked seperate from my normal gigs I charge more. Mainly because I don't want to do them, but if the price is right I can be encouraged.

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I don't charge more if a gig falls on my regularly scheduled night, except for NYE and most places around here will want to bring in a band for NYE - area is saturated with marginal cover bands who will work for the same amount. Smart places just maintain karaoke and make it special somehow. They end up making and keeping more of the money if they do that.

I don't charge more to my home room if the holiday falls on my regular night either. Incidentally Thanksgiving night is the biggest night of the year for this place since many rooms are closed or on reduced hours. And since it's on a Thursday, my usual night, my pay is the same.

Sorry If I start something here, but this has been bugging me since the post was made and I can't keep quiet about it anymore.
I'm not looking to fight, but just want to clarify a few things.
I value honest people who admit when they are wrong and / or make a mistake.
I value people who, when they make said mistake, make amends and apologize and clear up said mistake.
I DO NOT value people who are quick to point the fiinger at others and put words in their mouths and try to make them appear to be less than what they are.

Morgan, you said:


If you truly valued integrity then you would have admitted your mistake and apologized to me for putting words in mouth that I did not say, insinuating that I wished the bar owner and / or KJ ill when, in fact, I absolutely did not.
You would have admitted that you read my posts too hastily and / or ignored the fact that I DID wish the KJ well.
But instead, you read the my post correcting you and then you chose to ignore it and obviously hope that it would go unnoticed.
Now that it something that bothers me.
Sorry, people. I just had to get that off my chest.