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I don't believe (while I have no verifiable facts before me) that there is any substance to the question of John McCain's citizenship status.

Why? Simple! If he isn't considered a "natural born citizen" than he is not a citizen at all, unless he had applied for and received naturalization. Without citizenship status, he can't vote in elections or hold office in congress.

Clearly, he and hundreds of thousands of others born oversees while their mother's were in foreign countries have never been required to apply for citizenship before they could vote!

Ironically a foreign born person who applies for and is granted citizenship is called a "naturalized citizen" So, I am amused by the similar term "natural born" as defining a qualification for President!

Lastly, the term "natural", as an adjective, has many definitions, depending on the context in which it it is used. As to parental matters, "natural" can simply mean "related only by birth"! I can see how that definition applies to the definition of a "natural born" citizen.

So, from a different angle, if someone is born in the USA and lives their whole life abroad as a contributing member in another land and its society --- nonetheless, that person is still a "natural born" citizen of the USA and would retain such status unless formally denounced!

i am honored by your props as well Vicki...thank you !! Lets not forget though that you belong amongst those women as well

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I take that as a direct insult towards those whom have died overseas and served this country with all they had. His Father was in the military as well as him. If you were to present that to me in person you would see fury in a heartbeat.

He was born on an American military base...

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General Colin L. Powell endorses Obama



http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200810 ... tico/14714

Karyoker, when you head is clear - I started my last post stating that there is no substance to any question regarding the citizenship of McCain or of his right to run for the presidency.

I also made the point, Karyoker, that people born overseas have NEVER HAD THEIR CITIZENSHIP DISPUTED. And that fact does not belie the reality of their citizenship, but rather re-inforces it.

In life, Karyoker, if particular requirements are prescribed by a statute limiting who can benefit from said statute, and a group of people with the same characteristics have never been challenged about receiving said benefit(s) I think it is safe to say that it is commonly accepted that those people are believed to be legally entitled to said benefits!

I am also adding more specifity to my post about the definition of "Natural Born", since one person already took my previous post and turned it 180degrees around.

My main point is that I believe that the term "Natural Born" means that a person not born in the USA and adopted by, or the stepchild of a citizen of the USA cannot run for President - you must be a Natural Born of a citizen to run for president!

lets not turn this into a mutual fluff session honey

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

So true Babs. People vote for a specific candidate for a variety of reasons and motivations. Much (if not most) of it is irrational. After all, we are human beings and we base many of our most important life decisions on emotion. However, we are all considered equal and we all have a voice in this huge decision and responsibility.

Many Americans establish their political affiliations through family and then filter their perceptions of reality through that highly partisan lens. Others have crossed party lines because they identify with a particular person, perhaps because of race or gender. Sometimes we vote for someone just because we like them. Economy is always a huge issue. Obviously it is an extremely important issue in this election. I work for the County of Education, therefore, most people I talk to at work are also very concerned with improving education. None of us define our lives primarily or exclusively on economic terms. Right or wrong, it is what it is.

It's a very personal process for each person, and whether it's irrational or not, it's the best system we've got. I would hope that we all vote for the person whom we feel best promotes our values. Hopefully we will all take the time to do our research and dig a little deeper than what we hear/read from others. Especially when we hear these negative attacks. There is so much misinformation out there. And there is a lot of distraction.... taking us away from the real issues that we should really be concerned with.

I think it's safe to say that both McCain and Obama are natural born citizens. Both are honorable men, both are committed to serving their country. Everybody has their differing opinion. For each good argument there is another argument from the other side. Whichever one YOU pick is based on YOUR personal decision. Nobody can say it's right, wrong or irrational.

I know many people that vote democratic all the way across, no matter what. It's sad to be so closed minded in my opinion, because the democratic party has changed considerably since, say Kennedy. There was a democrat, who believed in lowering taxes to stimulate the economy. I would have no problem at all crossing party lines to vote for who I felt was the best candidate......Ron

It's sad to think that there are voters out there who hold the race issue as something of extreme importance. Just how many are like this, I'm not sure.

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I know Oldie, VERY scary I hope the majority are smarter...

I'm one of those that will NEVER vote for the man because he has been recorded not saluting the National Anthem. He's tried to spin that he's like every other American who's not saluted from time to time.

He's supposed to be a US SENATOR. Any civic leader knows you have to set an example.

He doesn't. Period. I don't care if he's the best orator we've ever heard. I could care less how much he loves his daughters or his wife. The man is NOT a patriot! And as someone that fought for our country, it would be an amazing disservice for me to place ANY vote for him.

Not even for a clerk!

In the predominately black county that I work in, a hotel had a McCain/Palin sign in the front of their business. It sparked such outrage by the black community that the hotel had to remove it. They received many phone calls, and threats of boycotts, and the story even ended up in the Washington Post. That surprised me, because normally only the racism from whites gets any media attention.....Ron

Lord, what next? The Whitey Network On Tv getting banned?

It's just sad when you can't support the candidate that you feel is right for you, or your business, without race coming into play, sound familiar

Sheree,

You last posts mirrors my sentiments almost to a Tee. I would like to add that there is more misinformation readily available out there than there are facts. Nonetheless, the facts can be determined if one is truly determined to uncover them!

For example, how many of you have thought of asking your accountant about the effect the candidates' tax proposals will have on various different taxpayers?

Unfortunately, if you were to also ask your accountant about the impact of those tax plans on the economy, you'll probably get varied opinions in that regard. Why? Because there is no way to be 100% sure how any legislation, or budget plan or monetary policy will effect the economy. And it is taxes, the budget and monetary policy, prior to this current bail-out debacle, that are the major elements in discussing Macro-economics. Now we have to consider the "Bailout Wildcard"! So, who knows?

Let me just mention one example of readily available information. I provide this information simply because I just heard it from a representative of Obama's campaign. He insisted that granting tax credits and writing checks to those who have never paid any income taxes is not income redistribution and justifies that plan by stating that everyone pays Payroll Taxes. Of course he's assuming everyone works on the books!

Technically, by the way, contributions to FICA and Medicare are not taxes; they are defined as "contributions" that people make to programs established for their own future welfare! And what is not clear is just how much of what has been paid into FICA and Medicare is going to be given back under Obama plan? All of it? Perhaps more than what was even paid in?

Meanwhile, if you look at my long-winded earlier post that included a discussion of the FICA and Medicare funds, you'll realize that the last thing we need is to reduce the amount going into those funds! So, it seems under Obama's plan the FICA contributions made by the rest of us will have to be raised!

This is a link to a Tax Calculator Comparison of the Candidates.

http://www.yourmoneypage.com/campaign2008/form_1040.php

Jayvan

Thanks for that invaluable link. It will surely help many people to determine what the effect will be on their personal taxes of the two plans!

You're right Ron. The backlash against that hotel owner isn't right either. Although from a strictly business point of view, a business posting it's political alliance doesn't seem like the brightest thing to do if you want to get the most business trade possible. You are bound to lose some business if some of your patrons are touchy and take offense. But the business should have the right to do it without getting a major boycott as retaliation.

wow imagine that....my taxes are the same with either candidate..you can quote Joe plumber all you want, i AM joe six pack and ol "boogieman" Obamas conspiracy to turn our country into a Muslim Socialistic Immagrant Society is a bunch of "sky is falling hooey". I take offense to anyone that uses a situation of somebody not saluting the flag as being unpatriotic. That flag represents our freedom to NOT salute it if that is what one chooses. I salute it, but I am never offended by the guy next to me at a game that does not and there are a lot of em. This whole paranoia of Obama being some kind of foreign traitor is ridiculous. The Democratic committes that select their candidate, would certainly do a background check on their guy, cmon man do you really think a guy could even make it into any public office not being a natural citizen. Dont you think that McCain would be all over that lie if it were true instead of parading around an imposter who supposedly represents the average "Joe"...I personally think its panic of a losing team. If McCaine was sitting pretty in the polls right now, this blog wouldnt even exist. thanks Jay for the cool calculator. We'll have to see if any quarter millionaires have anything to complain about....by the way, a person making 300,000 dollars would only be set back 5 grand on their taxes. I would trade anybody my salary with no taxes for someone who makes 295,000 a year.....

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Gladly helping Kappy to become cyber immortal !!

by the way Matt, I do appreciate your service to this Country and I respect your opinions.

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Gladly helping Kappy to become cyber immortal !!