Karaoke Forums

Didn't you just say recently that you would never whore yourself out like that because you have so much honor? And that the bar owner was sleazy for approaching you about replacing the other guy?

Glad to see you're softening your stance and not being such a boy scout about it anymore. Business is business, there's no shame in making yourself and your success your main priority.

And trust me, this kind of thing is hardly exclusive to the KJ biz. I frequent another message board for real estate loan signing agents, and the most common topics of discussion are decreasing fees, being undercut by lowballers, and how it's becoming less and less of a viable way to earn a living. Sound familiar?

I suppose it is the nature of any business. People will do what it takes to put money in their pockets. But I am a true believer that what goes around comes around.

I don't think I'd want to work for a bar owner who would hire me for low balling or bad mouthing another KJ to get the job. He could toss me to the curb just as easy.

I'm so surprised to hear people say they have no problem trying to steal other people's gigs. I can't even imagine considering it. I'm trying not to pass judgement here, but I have to say I'm shocked. You've heard me state in the forum a few times how in my experience I've found more gigs come to me from being friends with local KJs than back stabbing them. Why would you choose to go down the other road when you don't have to. A bad rep will get you less jobs and discourage loyal patrons of other karaoke hosts to visit your show. I just think it is a lose lose situation.

Don't let losing a job to an undercutter or back stabber sour you to doing the same thing. I don't think it is worth it in the long run.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Back stabbing and politics in karaoke is peanuts..It is a way of life that is steadily increasing and with worsening economy and more socialism it will only get worse..

If the liberals get their way in a few weeks kiss your luxeries goodbye

And for God's sake don't blame it on Bush. I am tired of that crap!!!

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I don't believe in that "crap about - "what goes around comes around". If it were just the least bit true, societal norms would be such that we'd each help one another.

In other words, it would be profoundly clear to everyone that those who do "good" are rewarded and those who do "bad" are punished!

Yikes, give me a break!

PS I really, really like the "one price fits all occassions" policy and the philosophy behind it. It's rigtheous!

And don't you find that the vast majority of people are helpful and friendly? I do.


It does look that way to me, in general. Most people are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be, and the happiest are the ones who are fair and aboveboard. When you do other people wrong, you may not immediately pay in material things but you pay in peace of mind.

Sure bad things happen to good people. And everyone has their ups and downs. But by and large, I think you get rewarded for doing the right thing. At least that is the way it appears to me in the Midwest of the U.S. of A.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

My comments might make some people angry but anyway<

Karaoke is a profession as the local mechanic is a profession.
What strike me most about the way this business is run is how some "KJs" operate their "business" out of the trunk of their car, aka "trunk slammers". (they operate with pirated copies of music with no real investment in the business).
They are not professional on stage, have no personality and in some cases are just damn rude. They have forgotten that they are working for their customers and they act as they doing their customers "singers" a favor letting them sing. I have experenced this at some shows I have visited.

I am not going to slam anyones equipment because everyone has their own standard when it comes to sound my ear is differant from yours. Although, I get many compliments of my sound system from people that are in from out of town visiting. I listen to my customers and "bar-owner/mgr" for feedback and do everything I can to make sure I am giving them the best show possible. I entertain my singers and the rest of the bar by interacting with them both on stage and out among them during the night. I try to get everyone in the bar /venue involved. From the feedback I get I am never boring (even on the night I am tired or not feeling 100%) the crowd never knows. My Wed night show rotation is 1 to 1.5 hrs long and I never play favorites and trust me I've heard all the excuses. One girl told me she had cancer and needed to go home and take her medicine, I told her her medicine was way more important than singing.


If a KJ want to come in and "takes" my show, they better make sure they are doing a better job than I am. If they give their show away just to get the job, be sure the only one that wins in that game is the KJ. Price and quality usually go hand in hand. You really do get what you pay for.

I have lost shows only to be called back by the bar owner later asking me to come back usually giving me leverage to raise my price. Their customers either go elsewhere or complain to the bar owner/mgr. Even if they have 50,000 songs and are computerized.

Thats my rant!

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Please, Mckj57, let's take my words exactly as I used them. I implied that if there were truth to that old adage, the normal experience we all would have as members of society is that everyone would be doing good (if for no other reason out of fear of the consequences of doing otherwise). So, by definition, if I were wrong, this thread would not even exist!

PS Where did I say anything about "happiness"? And to most people who do "good" the reward is in the "doing" and not what "comes around"! And, obviously, those who do bad are unconcerned about what "goes around". Lastly, that old adage, to me, is representative of a wish for revenge/justice. I don't feel it's appropriate to wish "bad" to those who do evil; that judgment will ultimately be made by any entity other than man!

What? Are you telling me that you expect 100% of people -- with no exceptions -- to act in the "right" way as you see it? I am not surprised that you are so often upset about the behavior of others.

I am saying that people getting so upset about "undercutters" and "back-stabbers" is ridiculous. There are not nearly so many victims as there are volunteers.

I know a guy who would undoubtedly swear on a stack of bibles that he was undercut and stabbed in the back. But in point of fact the crowds were staying away, he had a lot of reliability and personality problems, and that his being sacked was just business. Perception is not always truth.


"Hatred can never be removed by hatred. The eternal answer is that only love can banish hate."
-- Buddha

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Getting term'd for poor perfromance(being rude, drunk, boring, complaints-either staff or custys, cant keep a crowd, dont attract ANY crowds at all) are all legit reasons for being replaced--just like any other job where you dont perform. Whether it be sales, service, repair etc etc---you have to perfrom or be replaced. That is NOT waht Im referring to----when that happens its deserved. Its the truly underhanded and with no integrity sleazy deals made(like the example I gave in my original post that Im talking about) that really makes this a nasty business. Failure to perform is not a case of poor integrity by a bar owner. Thats the KJ's fault. But sneaky underhanded arrangements are the fault of the bar owner, or other suitor and invariably it comes back and bites them in the AZZ!! Sometimes even ruins thier business.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Once again, with a broad swipe of his paintbrush, mckyj57 has decided to insult all kjs that get upset at an undercutter or backstabber asked for it.

What's next, Mick? A woman who dresses in less than a burka is asking to get molested?

Have YOU spent 12 years in this business perfecting your show to have some lowlife come in and try to put you out on the street?

RARELY do you get the graet venue owners that are loyal. And these undercutting morons KNOW this. The odds are they can go in with a lowball price or options and the venue owner/manger is thinking, "Hey, I got Karaoke cheaper! I know a GREAT bargain! What do I care that these idiots are slicing each other's throats."

THEY LIVE for it! They treat many of us as mere vendors, and nothing more. A means to an end.

So yeah, when I work my A&& off to get a great thing built, someone that slurps in like the slug that they are and manages to crap all over my hard work?

Yeah, it totally PI**es me off!

and so do those that naysay my opinion!

Re: Reinvention----only "softening" that position as its now become a recurring pattern. Once--is an anomoly, twice makes me wonder---but third time----now time to set him down and let him know that its 3 times now and now I will take over the gig as he cant hold it and has so far never been able to hold gigs. Now given him chance--now have to take control myself. Only in the case of this individual. And only if the bar owner approached me about it.

But in terms of a change in philosphy---no. Not going to become an undercutter and walk in ot other peoples gigs and say hey I can do this for u for 25$ less why dont we throw your present guy under the bus.

However If I do activley go seeking gigs what I will do is leave an info packet and card and ask that if comes a time they feel the need for a change that they will consider me....and leave it at that.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I work Shorty's' Grill 3315 35th Greeley Colorado . Come steal my show. The owners mngr and staff will laugh at you. Call 970-301-4938 ask for Dave. The bottom feeders do not bother or compete with me in any way.

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Mcky57

As you have done with posts of mine in the past, you've once again assigned your own interpretation to my words. I'll simply remind you that I neither invented the phrase "What goes around comes around", nor did I use it here or elsewhere, ever. Again, I don't believe in its message and if it were true, there would be no exceptions to its message. What more can I say? If you believe it's 100% true - good for you. If something isn't 100% true, or reasonable close to 100%, than how true is it?

Now interpret this as you choose fit!

This is about the same mentality as the jilted wife who blames only her husband for the affair he's having. What about the other woman he's doing it WITH?

It's easy to point fingers at the "underhanded" KJ who gets your gig. But what about the bar owner who HIRES him?I would hope that if the owner feels there's anything lacking in my show that they would come talk to me about it and not just replace me. But let's face it, most bar owners aren't the epitome of fairness, morality or employee loyalty. In fact in most of the bars in which I've worked, after the owner hires me I rarely see him. My continuing contact is usually the bar manager who pays me.

How to continue to keep the owner in the loop? Take photos during your show of the crowd and the singers. Send him links to your Craigslist ads to show you're promoting the bar.

Times are tough! Don't ever feel complacent in your gig no matter how well you know the owner or how well you think you get along. Just like dating a hot chick...there will always be people making moves on her. Whether she accepts? You're only as good as your last show.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

If the bar owner would BOTHER to look at the CL site.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

You're only as good as your last SHOW?

Spoken like someone that DOES go in and undercuts and slashes at the truly hard work it is to promote karaoke or DJ gigs. These are built from a much longer stretch, usually because there ARE so many sh*tty kjs or venues out there people get jaded. Word doesn't spread overnight, no matter how many internet blogs or posts you do! 'Tis usually word of mouth!

I think what he means is, out of an owner's perspective. From his (the owners) point of view you're only as good as your last show...

Thanks God not all owners are like that. Some see the long run and appreciate, what you're doing even after a couple of bad nights.

I'm going to sit sorta the other side of the fence here... Not to rub anyone up the wrong way, just to share some experience.

I am relatively new to this. Been doing it for about 4-5 years as a hobbyist, and now about 1.5 years paid.

My friend owns a pub - his brother is a KJ and taught me a LOT when I went pro = got me hooked into using compuhost, found me a decent source to buy my CDGs through, explained a lot about the way to run it, and advised me on equipment.

He cannot DJ at this pub on Saturday nights, as he has a regular booking elsewhere, so I am used. I use similar equipment, in some ways better, in some ways not. Have similar selections (his is larger, mine has more "wow would never have thought of that" - but we cover the main bases perfectly well).

I got a message off his wife slating me, telling me I "wanted to be him, but he is way out of my league", that I am "going after his gigs, but who am I kidding".

This was one hell of a shock to me, and also one to him. He apologised profusely, and had no knowledge of this. She was just drunk and insecure - another KJ becoming quite prominent in the same area and in fairness, at the same pub.

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Another story: I KJ in another pub quite locally - had 3 gigs there so far, taking over from a KJ who retired (I think). First night the landlord tells me "xxxxx will come down, have a word and tell you what sort of music (filler) the locals like" (I run disco & karaoke there). OK, I don't NEED this, but I will listen to any advice.

The guy turns up, looks at my rig, lights, system, selection and grunts "Probably all pirated copies". I ask him if he wants to see the originals (I keep a pic on my phone just in case). He tells me "Nobody will want those lights". Fair play - I personally find that the DISCO side of "disco & karaoke" requires them. "Working off a laptop isn't DJing, it's lazy". I'm bored at this point and just ignore him.

He tells the landlord "He's got a real attitude problem". All the locals have pestered me to return there more often, and the landlord is constantly ringing me.

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All I wanna say is there is a LOT of bitterness in this business! I hope I never get so jaded as to become part of it.

Wow, this is really bitter. Who would have thought.

I have an experience with a retiring KJ, too... but in a postive way.

I was a Karaoke singer for years, before I actually started my own business. Not on a weekly or even daily base, but at least one to two times a month. And I went to quite a few different hosts/shows during that time. And with each host and show, there was always something I didn't like as a guest/singer. (That made me actually start my own little venture)

There was only one guy, I really enjoyed to go to. This guy was very friendly, run an absolute fair rotation, even though he had a lot of friends at his shows. He also had a decent sound system and knew, how to mix the sound. Bottom line, there was not one negative thing I could find about his shows.

The only thing I noticed was, he never sang... at all. For the longest time I just figured, that maybe he is just not a good singer. I happened to be at one of his shows, when a friend of his was celebrating a birthday. The host sang "Sixteen Candles" for his friend as an exception, because it was his birthday. And man! This guy had THE best voice I've ever heard. Not only on Karaoke... I was literally sitting there with my mouth open and listening.

After his show I confronted him nicely and asked, why he never sings at his shows with THAT voice. His answer was, first he doesn't want to show off his talent, fearing it might intimidate not so secured/bad singers and he wants everybody to feel welcome at his shows. Second, he was acting and singing in Broadway Musicals for years and years, touring all over Europe. And he really doesn't feel like, he HAS to sing anymore. Needless to say, my respect for this guy went even higher than before. He was a really nice guy.

Years later, I was in my fourth year of running my own shows, he comes in to one of my shows with a friend. He even sang a couple of songs and once more, I was just deeply impressed with his talent. I think he sang Josh Groban - You raise me up and Smoke gets in your eyes. WOW!...

Anyway, after my show, we get to talk and it comes out that his friend is a bar owner from a place just 2 blocks away and he runs a weekly show there, which is in fact his last show, because he is planning on retiring from Karaoke. The only reason, why he still runs this show is, because the owner is his personal friend. They had an agreement, that he will run the show until the owner or himself will find somebody, that they both decide would be running a good/fair enough show to take over and they think, they found me. They asked, if I would like to take over his show.

I didn't even ask about the price and immediately accepted. I felt SO honored, I can't even start to explain how much.

Sevarin, great story!!!

You always have something of value to say. Your contribution to this place is greatly appreciated, thank you.