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Thanks just dont believe what the press puts out..

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Some thoughts to ponder:

-The democrats took over the congress on a platform that promised to end the war. So what happened?

-Republicans want to privatize aspects of social security and suggest that some of the contributions we make to the government fund could be transferred to a private fund. "It wouldn't be risky", they explain, "No one loses money in the stock market over the long term". Well, tell that to those recently retired or about to retire and who were planninng to rely on their investments in stocks to see them through their golden years

-Obama, from his own mouth, wants to redistribute the wealth. That is a socialist doctrine.

-The debt created by the Republicans has in fact redistributed the wealth. But rather than doing so between "classes", it has financed our society today by incurring a debt that will be transferred to our grandchildren, great grandchildren and maybe further down the line. That's neither capitalism or socialism - that's stupidity!!

-Jimmy Carter tried to implement an energy policy, but neither party wanted anything to do with it. And the democrats have controlled congress for long-enough stretches since 1976 if they wanted to implement such a plan, they could have. I figure that Big Oil has gotten into their pockets? (why do we say it the other way - politicians are in Big Oil's pocket?) Yep, contributions into the pockets of everyone and anyone in either party that can keep big oil profitable!

-George Bush wanted to drill off the coast of FL. Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, wanted no part of off-shore drilling because it would harm the tourist industry. What tourist industry, I ask, will we have in Florida when no one can afford to get here much less pay for their stay?

-Both Republicans and Democrats drive SUV's. I warned about the consequences of our society embracing them for their preferred vehicle back in the late nineties. And my concern had nothing to do with the environment, but with environmental considerations in mind, how can people make excuses for driving them? We survived before they came on the scene and now people are scrambling to get rid of them. So much for the "rationales" we were given by self-centered drivers of SUV for owning them! Oh, and my son owns two! I laugh when he complains about his commuting expenses!

-The media is no longer functioning as the Fifth Estate. Earlier in this thread, links were provided to articles in the mainstream media about John McCain that are meant to be less than flattering - links that are intended to cast him in a bad light! What link has anyone produced to a mainstream media article pointing out anything that they have uncovered and alerted us to regarding Obama? Well, the answer is none. In short, the mainstream media has not felt compelled to investigate Obama and his associations, and have clearly ignored matters that others have suggested require closer scrutinity. Only John McCain's has "dubious" assocations that must be investigated and exposed. The press clearly preferred Obama over Clinton, and now prefers Obama over McCain. And as to the term "mainstream", I refer to those institutions we all expect to be unbiased reporters of the news and the watchdogs that raise important questions that leads to repectable investigative reporting. Are there any such mainstream media outlets left?

So "nit-pick" all you one about "this" and "that". As I SUGGESETED in my first post to this thread - the average person doesn't have a clue about what their politicians are doing, talking about or looking to achieve. I called my local politicos regarding the bailout vote. There was no on in any of the offices I called who could respond with any knowledge and intellect to the issues I raised.

And having read the entire bailout bill, there is no plan - Paulson will make it up as he goes! If you were interested in finding out what would ensue from the plan and read it, as I did, you encountered 450 PAGES of extraneous details that could have been addressed subsequent to defining the plan. And again the plan was never defined, but the extraneous statues were!

Wrong term, the press is usually refered to as the Fourth Estate. However, they have become Fifth Columnists! I'll let you guys google those terms.

i thank you, ---airgtar, for catching that slip. Freudian!?

Nevermind, wrong thread.

In Ollie's defense (and every other Vietnam Vet that returned, let alone those that did not and probably will never return), The Vietnam War was the very first time soldiers returned to jeering crowds. In WW1, 2, and even Korea, they were accepted openly. Warmly.

But in the Vietnam Conflict, there were many sides. Some of the warriors and medical personel over there were drafted and didn't want to be there. Many were not honorable men, and if there's one thing they learned quickly, the war made absolutely NO sense. They fought an enemy that they couldn't understand and the soldiers were hampered by the congress and Commander In Chief as they tried to negotiate with the North Vietnamese. They didn't do an all out war until the end, because they were trying like blazes to not create World War 3 (in this respect it was a lot like Korea!).

The media destroyed the morale of the fighting men. They were asked to do darned horrible things. And some went beyond their orders. Drug usage ran rampant. Raping and pilaging became more and more commonplace, and THAT's what was reported to the news. Not about the insane orders to only take this one hill and stay on top in an undefensible position. A hill that nobody truly wanted! It made no logical sense. When the entrenched military intelligence KNEW the primary targets but were under orders instead to hit other areas meant to demoralize the enemy, who laughed at their naive attackers.

I can tell you with MY limited medals and my limited knowledge of jungle warfare that you CAN'T win it. Not against a people that know that land and know how to fight unconventionally. And when we DID finally fight them on their terms, the media reported how dishonerable we were.

John McCain was held in the Hanoi Hilton for many years. A hel!hole I can't even POSSIBLY imagine.

Don't immediately dismiss what that war was about, nor the consequences of it. Shell Shock, Battle Fatigue, and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder are VERY real conditions. I had a bit of therapy myself not long after getting back about trying to get past what I was ordered to do, when I didn't want to do it. To take a life to defend ourselves as we were on a rescue mission. The guilt of surviving when so many good men didn't. Seeing men die in ungodly ways, the surrealness of seeing a man die and turn into a rag doll while you're covered with his innards... and you can't even remember his whole name.

Unless you've ever been there and done that, you can't POSSIBLY know what it's like. I forgive Ollie for most of what he's talking about, because it's NOT just Mikey or Sheree or Boatman that is giving him a hard time... it's GENERATIONS of people who can't possibly understand what he went through. The horrors you face in battle is one thing, but the horrors of that war were just staggering.

Again, I don't think McCain has all the answers. I just think of him as a lesser of the two evils. He's locked in this stupid war of politics where he's advised to do the attacks and the other crap that the Republicans want him to do. Same thing with Obama.

But in looking at the two candidates, I trust McCain more as a warrior, and believe me folks, we're still in a war, and we have more to face that way. In no way do I trust someone that won't even put their hand over their heart during the National Anthem to lead us in combat and negotiations of peace.

As far as your description of the Vietnam war, I agree 100%. Excellent post from that standpoint Matt!

One important note - the media provided the "slant" that gave permission to folks who chose to call us "baby killers", to do so!

If you rely on the media for information you are a fool.

In my life I have been intimately involved with eight stories that were covered by the news. The reporting that followed had material errors regarding each and everyone of those stories!

Hot off the press!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200810 ... tico/14835

I have had time only to take a quick glance (coz it just hit the Yahoo headlines) but unless I missed the so called "citizenship scandal" it doesn't look like anyone is calling for more than medical records and tax returns!

Look,

ANYBODY that doesn't think that Obama wasn't VETTED to be a U.S. Senator and finally a presidential candidate by OUR OWN GOVERNEMNT is naive to the point of being laughed at.

C'MON!

Hey Matt, I think you need to go back and read my thread from last night, I was'nt giving Ollie a hard time at all. If you still read it that way, then you missed the boat on that one. Just sayin........Ron

I admire obama in many ways. He overcame obstacles with hard work . However I dont think he is old enough or have the political savvy to deal with the cronies in congress with their years of power. He didnt really seem to participate when he was active in the senate. I suspect he is on an ego trip rather than full dedication to this nation. That is the problem in DC. Everybody is concerned with their own interests than the good of the nation which is due to the lethargy of the average citezen who is busy just trying to survive.

What the press has done or tried to do to Sarah Palin is a total disgrace to the integtity of our country. Do you wonder what killed the respect of the rest of the world for us? The stations in Denver had eadlines on their web sites that contained nothing but rape murder and all the other shockers. I climbed all over all the news editors by email and phone. I said to one what if a kid in Paris logs on your web site. just impression will he have about Denver or the USA? He didnt have an answer but the site was totally changed. If you want real news go to BBC.

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Sheree,

I think you mis-spoke when you said this thread started as a criticism of Obama. Please review what Bab initially said.

You may also agree that the negativity directed towards McCain on this thread has been a lot more vitriolic than the negativity displayed towards Obama (except for maybe my posts about Obama)!

Same here, well done Matt

Thanks Matt Im pretty much over that. Now I'm dealing with old age.

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Ollie

If you don't calm down you won't make it to "old age"

what planet are you on dude???? that video is completely anti obama. Implying that Obama isnt natural born and hangs out with terrorists isnt vitrolic? It was you Mccain supporters that started in on obamas ties to terrorists.. and i agree Matt, great write and I apologize if i took any of that away from ollie.

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Well, the US Constitution says differently!

I VOTED Just put ballot in mail....

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i read somewhere that these days with all the potential vote tampering that mailing is a risky way to vote. But good luck Ollie to you and your candidate

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