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milo
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 Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:49 pm |
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please forgive the long copy & paste...i just thot she had so many valid points...maybe someone besides me can see them...
for what it's worth, i was also taught in school to stand for the national anthem and put my hand over my heart when saying the pledge of allegiance....i believe i read somewhere the same was true for obama...it was good to see him singing the anthem and clapping afterwards...and where in the world do they get the singers from? ...holy moly, i'd be tempted to put my hands over my ears...
Quote: I am 62 years old. I was a Brownie, a Girl Scout [we learned about the flag] a band member who for years marched in the Memorial Day parade and attended the ceremonies afterward. I attend a Fourth of July celebration ceremony every summer to this day. Most of my friends' fathers were in WWII and my generation fought in Viet Nam. I said the pledge every day in school.
I NEVER LEARNED TO PUT MY HAND OVER MY HEART DURING THE ANTHEM, only the pledge. Boys were required to remove their hats.
It is only recently that I have noticed some people putting their hands over their hearts during the anthem, and when I first saw people doing this I thought it was strange and that they were getting confused.
Perhaps placing your hand over your heart is practiced in some parts of the county and not in others, such as in areas where there are more people who have been active duty military nore recently. For me it is new, just as I had to learn to add "under God" to the pledge when I was in third or fourth grade.
Many of us old timers were not taught to put our hands over our hearts during the anthem and I think it is silly to castigate Obama for something that has not been a tradition in many areas.
The flag "Code", may have been written in 1931, but it appears to me the following section may have been added in 1998.
To quote an earlier blog post by Partriotic as the next guy---
"So I noticed the "US Code 36" referenced which was only written in 1998 -- its not some defacto long standing tradition / requirement. Here is what it says --
TITLE 36--PATRIOTIC AND NATIONAL OBSERVANCES, CEREMONIES, AND
ORGANIZATIONS
Subtitle I--Patriotic and National Observances and Ceremonies
Part A--Observances and Ceremonies
CHAPTER 3--NATIONAL ANTHEM, MOTTO, FLORAL EMBLEM \1\ MARCH, AND TREE
Sec. 301. National anthem
(a) Designation.--The composition consisting of the words and music
known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b) Conduct During Playing.--During a rendition of the national
anthem--
(1) when the flag is displayed--
(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at
attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;
(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with
their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder,
the hand being over the heart; and
(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute
at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until
the last note; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face
toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag
were displayed.
(Pub. L. 105-225, Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1263.)
This "law" is no law at all -- It uses terms like "should" not "shall". And the reason why is that Congress -- cannot dictate what people do -- its the first amendment! "
I was prompted to write this by a caller on CSPAN this morning who felt Obama disrespected his WWII vet father by not having his hand over his heart. The poor man was nearly in tears. WHY DO WE GET SO UPSET ABOUT SUCH THINGS?
Hand over your heart during the anthem evidently is a tradition in some areas and not in others. Just because someone does it does not necesarily mean they are really patriotic. Who knows what is really in their heart? Not doing it doesn't mean one is not patriotic, either.
As to wearing a flag pin -- first I respect the flag and what it stands for, but I do not worship it as if it were a God.
I would not wear one at this time, because wearing one has come to mean you believe in a certain type of right wing politics, most of which I disagee with, and I do not want to be identified with those people. It does not mean I don't love my country, believe in its values or respect the flag. It does not mean I am not a patriot. I just have a different vision for our country than most people who wear flag lapel pins.
Flag worship in my opinion is a form of idolitry. Flag respect is patriotism. There is a difference.
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dumbdrums
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:48 pm |
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Quote: Sure anyone that says it lacks respect has a point, but drawing the conclusion that people are uncaring and unpatriotic because their hands are at their side is just plain wrong
I knew this was gonna wake you up....where have you been Matt?  ...anyways, i just wanted to emphasise that i agree its a lack of respect, and especially our elected officials should be held to a higher standard. I guess my point is that wrong as it is, it should not be a measure of patriotism. on doing research of that picture (where he does not have his hand over his heart) I ran across someone who posted 3 pictures from 3 different events where he does. So how does one read into that. if he didnt do it EVERY time, i would say that was a statement that he opposed doing it, maybe he was just not thinking that day? i really dont know but i wanted you to know Matt that I dont oppose your concept of the fact he should. I kind of think hes pretty patriotic to put himself in a high profile situation that many think is life threatening for a man of color to do so. Even though Bidens comment of something bad happening to him in the first few months was a STUPID thing to say, the more i think about it the more i think he might be a little prophetic..
Milo, you look great for 62 !!!
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milo
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:47 am |
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Quote: for what it's worth, i was also taught in school to stand for the national anthem and put my hand over my heart when saying the pledge of allegiance....i believe i read somewhere the same was true for obama...it was good to see him singing the anthem and clapping afterwards...and where in the world do they get the singers from? ...holy moly, i'd be tempted to put my hands over my ears... let me clarify that...we were taught in school (and girl scouts) to stand when the anthem was sang...when we said the pledge of allegiance, we stood with our hand over our heart Quote: Milo, you look great for 62 !!!
well thanks so much you young whippersnapper!! i feel older than i look though, this weather is hell on my arthritis... 
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Sheree
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:42 am |
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ok What Now @ Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:19 pm wrote: does anyone here feel that he wouldn't be where he is now without Opra's money and her tv show? how far would he have made it? just asking...
I watched Oprah on Larry King Live not long ago and she stated that she hadn't contributed to Obama's campaign at all, saying something to the effect, "My endorsement is more beneficial than anything." And in that regard, I agree with you. Her endorsement was huge to his campaign. He probably wouldn't have gotten this far if not for being thrown into the public eye. His speech at the 2004 Democratic convention was his big moment and after that he has had tremendous momentum. We are in an age of instant celebrity. I couldn't agree with you more on that! I was just watching Fox News this morning and Joe-the-Plumber is now considering running for congress! Unreal. This guys life has changed in one day.
But where would McCain be if it weren't for his father? He had a huge advantage in life from the day he was born. His life was pretty much laid out and planned. He is what we call "privileged". Obama came up from nothing and here he is a presidential candidate. I'd say that both candidates had help from someone to get to this point, but that's the way it is.
My feeling is this, and it's just my opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, I just want to explain how I feel. The Bush administration was far more advantageous to the rich in this country. I'm all for free market and capitalism, but it's not fair when we (the middle class) have to pitch in and bail out Wall Street. Where was Wall Street when we were suffering with losing our homes and jobs? Yet, when they are in trouble WE have to bail THEM out. OK...I understand that it is because otherwise, our whole economy would have gone down the toilet. So...If this is a time for desperate measures, why not take the desperate measure that helps the people who need it most? I think it's time for a big change, and I see McCain as Bush's third term. Giving tax cuts to the wealthy while the middle class struggles to get by. I'll be the first to admit that I do not fully comprehend the way the economy works, and according to ericlater I shouldn't even be voting, but it seems that even the most intelligent economists can't agree with how to fix it.
I agree that Obama lacks experience, but McCain, to me, is more of the same ideologies and policies of the Bush administration. No matter how much he tries to distance himself from Bush in this campaign, his record speaks for itself.
McCain has done nothing but create a false air of mystery around Obama and encourage voters to fill in the blanks with their own biases. In the beginning he stated that he would run a straight forward no-nonsense campaign. Now that he is the underdog he has to somehow bring down his opponent. I understand this. But I'd like to hear what he is going to do that is so different from what we've already been doing. I see him as a bit of a war monger. Like Bush.
I see no end in sight to the war in Iraq with a McCain presidency. The war in Iraq is a huge drain on our economy! We need to end it. I'm not speaking as a military expert, but it seems to me that we've been way too quick to use military measures when perhaps diplomatic measures would have been much more useful. I see McCain as more apt to use military power where perhaps with Obama we might avoid it.
Billy, I'm not directing this whole long winded post at you  ..... sorry for the length. 
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dumbdrums
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:56 am |
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quit being such a trouble maker....you goofy blonde !  we are trying to talk about Milos stint in the girlscouts and you gotta go change this thread into a political thing...
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Sheree
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:08 am |
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dumbdrums @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:56 am wrote: quit being such a trouble maker....you goofy blonde ! we are trying to talk about Milos stint in the girlscouts and you gotta go change this thread into a political thing... Did I go off topic? I'm sorry..
Carry on. 
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milo
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:24 am |
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dumbdrums @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:26 pm wrote: quit being such a trouble maker....you goofy blonde ! we are trying to talk about Milos stint in the girlscouts and you gotta go change this thread into a political thing... 
...and don't forget how young i look for my age... 
i received yet another infamous obama email this morning...i promptly forwarded a snopes link back to everyone and got several thank yous in return...it amazes me how many people don't find out things for themselves and trust anything that anyone says as gospel
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Sheree
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:52 am |
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sunny(the young, beautiful, smart woman up there) wrote:
Quote: i received yet another infamous obama email this morning...i promptly forwarded a snopes link back to everyone and got several thank yous in return...it amazes me how many people don't find out things for themselves and trust anything that anyone says as gospel
You are lucky that they thanked you. I never get that kind of appreciation when I send the snopes link back. 
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dumbdrums
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:57 am |
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PLEASE !!!! cant you 2 just get along and agree on something !!!
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milo
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:19 am |
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well sorreeeeeeee....dude
she started it 
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Sheree
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:36 am |
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I AM quite the troublemaker aren't I? 
I don't think I've posted this much in my whole 5 1/2 years of being a member here. Perhaps I should just stick to singing. I seem to be making a few enemies in here.
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dumbdrums
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:10 am |
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dumbdrums
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:11 am |
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sunny @ 10/25/2008, 12:19 pm wrote: well sorreeeeeeee....dude she started it well according to Eric, I suppose she did !
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milo
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:23 am |
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Sheree @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:06 pm wrote: I AM quite the troublemaker aren't I? I don't think I've posted this much in my whole 5 1/2 years of being a member here. Perhaps I should just stick to singing. I seem to be making a few enemies in here. be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind
i matter... 
you DO need to do some singin' though
*going right now to work on those duets* ... i swear
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Sheree
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:26 am |
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sunny @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:23 pm wrote: Sheree @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:06 pm wrote: I AM quite the troublemaker aren't I? I don't think I've posted this much in my whole 5 1/2 years of being a member here. Perhaps I should just stick to singing. I seem to be making a few enemies in here. be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind i matter... you DO need to do some singin' though *going right now to work on those duets* ... i swear Goodness girl...I've missed you. A duet? *perk*
I love the sound of that. 
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milo
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:27 am |
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dumbdrums @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:41 pm wrote: sunny @ 10/25/2008, 12:19 pm wrote: well sorreeeeeeee....dude she started it well according to Eric, I suppose she did ! i was talking about me & sheree...i don't give a rat's patootie about him Quote: sunny(the young, beautiful, smart woman up there) wrote:
i just noticed this! (you might want to make the font bigger and highlight it)
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milo
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:44 am |
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Quote: well according to Eric, I suppose she did ! Quote: i was talking about me & sheree...i don't give a rat's patootie about him
well maybe you were too...huh? durn coffee still hasn't kicked in ... 
...or maybe i need to check for blonde roots
[font=Comic Sans MS] DUETS!![/font]
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Sheree
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:50 am |
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sunny @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:27 pm wrote: dumbdrums @ Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:41 pm wrote: sunny @ 10/25/2008, 12:19 pm wrote: well sorreeeeeeee....dude she started it well according to Eric, I suppose she did ! i was talking about me & sheree...i don't give a rat's patootie about him Quote: sunny(the young, beautiful, smart woman up there) wrote: i just noticed this! (you might want to make the font bigger and highlight it) I thought about that....but then I figured that you are already waaay tooo fabulous. Giving you the big font and highlights would be going overboard....
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Odie
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:00 pm |
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I hate to interrupt all the fun. Last night I went to karaoke expecting to have a fun night out away from arguments about politics and economics. I would have been perfectly happy just hearing the same old regular karaoke songs. But the father of one of my favorite karaoke singers shows up and just had to ruin it! Now in the past I've talked to him at lengths about music and Beatle trivia. This time he starts telling me a story about how the probate attorney for his late Aunt's multi-million dollar estate, managed to steal a bunch of the estate money. The attorney then took part of this stolen estate money and donated it to the Obama campaign. My friend's father claims that he has all the evidence that is needed to file a lawsuit and he claims that Obama knew the money was stolen in the first place. The evidence has even been turned over to the FBI.
Normally I wouldn't talk about unsubstantiated rumors, but this whole story was just bizarre. Since I don't know any of the other people involved or any details other than what he's telling me, I couldn't really argue much. Eventually I just had to get up and go home. This was a real bummer of a karaoke night! ha,ha So if by some one in a million chance this whole tale is true and this alleged Obama campaign finance scandal makes the news, remember you heard about first right here in a KS forum thread.
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dumbdrums
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:11 pm |
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boy that would be one in a million, but i think its a classic Mccain freak trying to stir the pot, like that girl who carved the backwards "B" in herself and said an Obama loyaltist mugged her...sorry it wasnt a typical night of Beatle trivia, THAT would be fun !
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