Karaoke Forums

My wife, daughter, and daughters boyfriend went out last night to a local pizza place for eats, drinks, and karaoke. (seems like lately, karaoke is popping up all over the place around here) They broke their cherryoke too, so it's a family thing now.
My wife (Bernadette) said the KJ was boasting that she had 400,000 songs in her library, I said no way. If I remember correctly, I think Lonnie said he had 15,000 songs after all those years as a KJ. Could she be telling the truth, are there that many songs available? Just curious.......... ...........Ron

Sure there are that many songs available. With every disc - both discontinued from years ago to today, I would say there are at least that many. Now how legal she is, i'd would speculate and chances are would be right on the money that she has purchased her hard drive off of e-bay or similar site. NO POSSIBLE WAY for her to have that many songs legally. Figure if she did by any skin chance that she did, that would equate to approx 2666 discs containing 15 songs each on avg. Time says $15 per disc would equate to almost $40 in music alone.
Yeah I can say I have 15K songs in my library or close to anyway that I have purchased over 15 years time (no I don't go out & buy anything & everything when it comes out). I know some that actually have more than myself legally, but not by a whole lot in comparing to these 100, 200, 400 K pirates.

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Well Music Book Delux claims 283,251 songs and KJ pro claims 347,017 songs in their databases.

Sure they are not complete but they probably do have well over 90% of the commercial english language songs. I suspect KJ pro has a bit more redundancy. I see a lot of queries that seem to be returning multiplie similarly named cds with the same tracks.

In terms of unique songs i suspect that they each have a bit over 200k songs in each database not counting the same songs by the same manufacturer (on different disks).

Counting all the different artist-tracks (not counting different manufacturers) I think that there would probably be less than 100 k english tracks total.

Even then a lot of the songs may be only made on different formats (DVD or some propritary formats used on some asian systems)

Your bar may have 400k tracks, but they would have to either have a lot of redundancy of the same track or they have a lot of non english language tracks.

Those 400k tracks probably could even be legal at the cost of about 1million investment and a couple people paid full time to find the cds over a year's time. Some tracks even if they have been made they are real hard to find (legally).


its about 26k disks not 2600 lonman, probalby closer to 30k because a lot of disks have less than 15.

I suspect that they more likely spent $400 on e-bay.

400K divided by lets say 9, as each individual title will have 9 or so DUPLICATES and that brings down the number of actual TITLES to about 36000.

Lonman DOES have 15000, INDIVIDUAL TITLES with NO DUPLICATES. HE IS FOR REAL---Ive seen his physical library in his DJ Pit.

Your 400K lady---running BOGUS for sure---harddrive bought off EBAY--maybe even from that same hardrive seller who was busted by the FBI for illegal reproduction and distribution and copyright violations.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

400,000 or 4 gazillion.... it doesn't matter.... you don't need that many.... seriously, if someone actually did have that many songs, how many copies /versions /brands of Patsy Cline's "Crazy" do you really need?

I am of the opinion that my "customers" are not in fact, the singers. They are the club(s) that I work for. If I'm not doing my job, the club will be the first to tell me either directly or by replacing me.

I don't cater to the "patrons" that are there specifically to "perform" and know what the rotation should be better than I do. I find that they are focused more on their "performing" than "having a good time." They are also more particular about the brands of songs you have and tend to tell you how to do your job.. (more volume, more reverb etc...) Let me qualify this by saying that clubs do have "regulars" and they spend money too. Just ask Lonnie -- being at the same location for so many nights and so many years -- he should know.

Those that are there to have a good time and ultimately spend more money ( with my client), don't care what brand of song you have as long as it sounds good. AND they're actually having a good time.

4,000 or 400,000 doesn't matter to them and frankly, a KJ really doesn't need that many as long as they do have the songs that people want to sing.

I'm so tempted to say first off to someone boasting of that kind of volume, "Hey, you must be rich!," and then, "Don't you know you could get away with about 500 if you were really smart and experienced?"

Too bad there isn't a pirate fairy around somewhere that we could call in for those kinds of shows!

k

I have seena KJ boast about such numbers (250,000 as I try to recall). Turns out was TOTALLY bogus (IMHO).

1) That number of tracks had to be illegally downloaded - as the spending on his system didn't match up.

2) There were some pretty common songs he didn't have (I asked for "Feel by Robbie Williams - a major hit overhere and produced by most of the major manufacturers) - he didn't have.

3) His books were not suitably sized. We didn't sit and count, but there seemed to be about 150 pages. Thinking about 60 songs per page (1 line per song). This leaves a massive number not accounted for. Then again, maybe he didn't print his whole list.

I was curious so asked him, without coming across confrontational "Wow, your selection is huge, how long you been doing this?" and he ummed and ahhed and changed the subject.

OFF TOPIC:

My selection currently runs about 6,000. I feel I cover all the bases, and possibly have only said "Sorry, I don't have that" about 3 times in the past year. Now with wireless vi my mobile - I just download a track from Tricerasoft anyhow. I am happy with the rate my collection is growing.

However, was DJing this weekend, and a friend-of-friend was at the gig, he also is a KJ. To be fair, I knew he used a pirated version of Virtual DJ. He asked how many I was running, and I told him, he asked what software and I said Compuhost.

He asked if he could copy it. I explained it was a free download but the license requires a USB dongle. He asked if I wanted to copy his library...

You know what? I really do. If nothing else, just to sift through for "interesting" tracks. I promise to myself I won't do it - but am so tempted. My reasoning is that I am spending money, and he is getting it all for free. Who is the jerk here? Me!

But I do take pride in being legitimate - I support the industry that has given me a lifetime of listening pleasure.

Nlouch, I've seen some of your posts, and have a lot of respect for what you do... I dread going with my partner to another karaoke, because the moment I see something obviously wrong, eg poor rotations, sticky songbooks and someone with an excessive number of tracks I start to moan, and my poor partner has to deal with me.

I also working on a computer system with 20,000+ songs, in a hosting job of mine. (I have 6000 individual tracks on my own system). Songs customers have asked for which this computer doesn't have include

Stay, Lisa Loeb
American Idiot, Green day
When You Tell Me That You Love Me, Diana Ross
Missing, Everything But the Girl
Hungry Eyes, Eric Carmen

I know how easy it is to become disgruntled with this industry, believe me I do on a regular occassion but please take pride in the knowledge that I would be proud to take my partner to your show.

That and I'd love to see compuhost in action... (I'm sarcastically, to the point of cutting off my nose to spite my face, legal and still use the original discs... but I dream of the day i can move my selection onto computer). No one in my area uses it, and to me it has to be the best system around.

Thank you Marble - it's people that appreciate what we do that makes it all the more worthwhile.

I am proud to be legal. That said, I have inadvertently broken this law before, by making my own .CDG file to accompany a vocal-removed MP3... You know what? I still use this - it's a track I sing once in a blue moon, but it still eats at me that I can't buy a legit version.

As for Compuhost - dude, download the trial, rip a few tracks to your PC and have a play. I love it, some hate it. It has it's faults, it has things missing that I personally would love to see, but it does what it does well.

And hey, if I'm ever back in Devon (unlikely, think I'm banned from Devon, long story...), will look up your show

Oh, as for not having a song - one of the benefits of using a laptop/pc is that I can bluetooth my phone, download it, pay quickly via PayPal, and have it ready in about 3 mins. If the venue has wi-fi all the better.

I'm in tech as a day job. I'm a desktop support Tech so when I found MTU and copied all of my disks to computer it was just the natural coarse for me. Not sure how many of you have actually copied your CDs to computer but OMG what a pain. some took 5min and some took over 20min and then failed I had to buy a disk cleaner (more like a buffer) to clean a lot of my CDs. It was a long drawn out project of sitting at the computer, waiting for the CD to finish and put another in. Every day after work and on the weekends for two strait weeks. It was a good thing I had a TV in my office. Now it's just a few at a time and they are new (unless I find a good deal on used)

The headache of that was worth it when I look at all of the benefits. I built a nice box that holds the computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, Wireless Mic and TV converter all in one. The top opens up and the monitor is ready. The front opens up and the keyboard and mouse are ready. I pull the plug of the mounted surge protector out of the back and plug it in I throw the Mixer above the keyboard and below the monitor the power, Wireless Mic and computer plugs are right there to plug in and that all takes me 5 min to set up. From there I set up the speakers run the wires to the mixer and I have all of the video plugs mounted to the Box on the outside. They are all quick connects.

Then the customer relation was effected in a good way. On disks I would get a slip SC#### and there name. They come up and say that's not the song I wanted then you have to open your book and look up the correct CD (not always their fault the lighting is always low) with the computer I don't give them the CD# I just ask for title and if it has more then one artist I ask them prior to them coming up which they prefer AND I choose the brand SC if I have it. So much less dead air. Now I get to play more. the time between the last singer and the next I can throw in music clips of old TV shows like the munsters, and Bewitched. and throw more of my personality in the show. I don't even mind them coming up and telling me what song they want with out the slips. I find I am using less and less slips

As for bragging you have 200,000 songs that just invites people to assume you are illegal and if you are then your setting yourself up to get caught. Besides, if you have 200,000 songs it's more likely you have what 20,000 songs and like thirty versions of Friends in low places and Crazy

I think a lot of my problems has to do with poorly organised computers and hosts who use different methods, but I'm currently finding for karaoke they are slower.

About three years ago, I used slips and was strict, everyone had to have a correctly filled out slip or you couldn't sing. I could find the CDG inbetween songs and by the time the next singer had walked to the stage it was loaded. With the artist and song title written out, i could also look it up and find it if they had made a genuine mistake in plenty of time.

Working on the system, i descibed above, I continually have customers asking if i have *enter artist or song here* and I'm then I'm searching for them (which on this system is slower than most i know), but this prevents me either ajusting a singers sound, or takes up valuable seconds (sometimes minutes) inbetween songs, they then ummm and errrr, state their song/s and then I have to make either a mental note or write it down (the computer i use won't allow you to preload it, without wasting at least another minute). To be fair this computer also has several songs listed, for example, as "MUSTANG SALLY by MUSTANG SALLY" and " CRAZY by CRAZY". which means i lose an excessive amount of time looking for the right version / song (which we can only test when no one is singing), I imagine most people are more organised than this.

Because so many hosts in our area look up customers songs, in the last three months i've given up on demanding a slip... it was a losing battle and we were losing so much time arguing with "drunks" that we now just do it for them. This in itself has lead to more problems. Customers on a regular basis now ask me to choose their songs and then moan if they don't like it. I had a poor member of staff almost in tears of fustration because two girls demanded the abba megamix (alongside their request to sing it there and then, because they didn't want to wait their turn). After they waited (there is no excuse to skip rotation) they screamed blue murder because he searched out "Thank abba for the music" rather than the megamix and promtly called him an idiot. We also have customers who change their mind once they are on stage.

At one time every company had a method which filtered out these problems, but with use of computers and the sheer numher of hosts who have different systems, the speed of a show has slowed down, whilst the stress levels have risen.

I've tried everything to make the how back to it's original speed of an average 14 singers an hour. I have lists of regulars songs coming out of my ears, but due to the fact i'm dealing with humans (most of whom have had a drink) a computer system which brags 20.000 songs and a book with 5,000 songs it. I have no hope.

i miss the days of "sing one, bring one" and slips. A filled out slip, could tell me nearly everything i need to know on a pratical level about a customer. Including if they had done karaoke before, if they could read well, how drunk they were, most importantly what they wanted to sing and who by.

Another complaint (oh yes I have many...) are the sheer number of hosts who come up and say to me as a customer, "if there's a song you want thats not in the books, just ask we're likely to have it on the system".

The songs i want are unlikely to be on your hard drive. We live in devon, England, and you've been bragging about your 50,000+ song collection for years. You are unikely to have the songs I want. Maybe 1 out of 5 if i'm lucky. I like SBI's unsual tracks, I love soundchoice, i like country rock.... I'm lucky if you've heard of half the artists i like to sing at karaoke....

What i want is to open a book, gather an idea of disc's you buy and what sets (which because i'm a nerd i can do without track codes), and work out my songs from there. That way i don't feel like i've wasted your time whilst you search for songs. I'm tired asking for any Carrie Underwood and only being presented with "jesus take the wheel". Please just put your songs in the book.

Rant over... thanks for reading.

To Marble

I feel your pain. It's aggravating when you're trying to be attentive to the singer's needs to be engaged by others.

What is causing the increase in interruptions are questions about the song catalog. What is causing said increase is the number of computerized shows that won't print up books for the guests; they're saving money. I've had KJ's invite me to have them look things up while singers are being ignored!

I, on the other hand, have a kiosk in addition to books. The guest can both look up what the catalog contains and also listen to a one minute sample of the song!

Yes no-one with 400,000 songs has a book with that many printed out.

Even with tiny type and 100 songs per page (I do about 60 songs/page so it is readable in a poorly lit bar), that would be 4000 pages....

No one is going to read that.

Finally even with 400,000 songs even if you claimed to have that many it would just get you in trouble in that people who are not interested in top 40 songs are STILL not going to find the song they want.

I cater to a mostly eclectic crowd, and a lot of them are more interested in indie music. I am up to just over 8000 songs and I still get about 5 requests for songs every night that I do not have. It turns out that usually 4 of those 5 have never been made as karaoke by any of the major companies (or many of the minors that I can search).

Even the serious pirate will not have the compelte song set out there. Fortunatley legal operators who keep up with companies like SBI that make a lot of unique songs may be more likely to have that special song someone wants than the person with the 400,000 song hard drive.

Finally my songs as MP3+CDG average about 5mb a song. A 400,000 song list is two 1TB hard drives unless they are recorded as really low quality midi songs.
Sure two 1TB hard drives is not impossible or even difficult technically, but if they have all those 400,000 on one 500GB hard drive the rip quality is probably horrible.

That person with 400,000 songs probably has at least 100 copies of love shack.

Yeah I caught a couple typos in my post.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The one thing I love hearing is from those 100K+ kj's (or better yet their customers) that come in & look in my book & tell me wow, you have this song? Like Marbles example list
Stay, Lisa Loeb
American Idiot, Green day
When You Tell Me That You Love Me, Diana Ross
Missing, Everything But the Girl
Hungry Eyes, Eric Carmen
I have all of these & the computer that she worked on has 'more' songs.



Don't have this one though. But that is exactly the point. Alot of the high number (advertised/boasted) do have MANY repeats, then are counted as individual titles. Also alot of their libraries seem to be of low grade quality manus as well. Some handfuls of the better manus included. I know I have several - maybe a couple hundred - discs that just cannot be purchased (legally) anymore.
The funniest thing to me is when these idiots come in and ask if I want to share libraries with them, I play along & ask what manus they have since I use primarily SC. They tell me Backstage, SGB, NuTech, BMB, etc..I just laugh at them after that. For one thing, why on Earth would I want to give me 'edge' to any of my competition, so they can now have what I have? I have 15 years invested into my 'meeger' selection. 2nd, if I did - which I would never - these are all the brands I hate & wouldn't use probably 90% anyway due to repeasts & just plain crap versions so where is my added gain? Sure they get a quality library & i get just get the dregs.....no thanks!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

My partner started out 18 years ago and over the course of those years he built up a library of over 1,700 disca containing 24,000 selection, of which 16,000 are unique (songs and covers by other artists) and what I call 15,500 singles (covers excluded). They are all on CDGs with no plans on converting (just too much damn time and headaches).

I would suggest that anyone just starting out with even anything close to what we or Lonman have is either very rich or illegal.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I probably wouldn't have posted this, but the day after the girls and had their night out at the pizza place (with Karaoke) I was home at the computer fondling all my new music that I had bought, and ripped. My 16 yr old daughter (Catherine) walks by and says, something about me playing with my karaoke stuff again, and I proudly respond, "yeah, I'm up to 3000+ songs". She looks at me, rolls her eyes and says," Dad........ the woman KJ last night had 400,000", then Catherine threw her head back and strutted off.

It probablhy would not hurt as much to hear about the 400,000 k songs if I had not spent close to $3,000 this month alone on only about 2000 new songs.

Im up to about 8 k different songs right now and it cost me about 10k in cash....

Like I had mentioned, it seems like there is a lot of karaoke going on around us all of a sudden. Maybe it's a good thing because of increased interest, or maybe it's a bad thing because of increased competition. Maybe us country folk are finally just catching up with the rest of the world.
In any event Fred, thats a lot of money invested, I hope it pays off for you....Ron