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I'm not quite sure where i'm going wrong but I seem to be losing a lot of work recently and not gaining a lot to replace it.

Most of the reason I've lost work is due to old owners leaving and new ones taking over. The new ones don't like the show... comments have included the same five singers are getting boring, we don't like *enter customers name here*. . .

Previous owners have watched the show get busy, then quiet, then busy again... I don't think it's anything we do as a show, but rather that we live in a tourist area, with a lot of karaoke shows, so if a night gets too busy, customers go elsewhere to sing more, their new venue gets busy, and then they come back to us. We have a staple six singers which is more than most.

My show is run, with a fair rotation, a positive host who may offer advice to a singer but who will never critazise, Hosts don't sing when their are more than six people in rotation, etc etc.

My advertisement of my services and the nights i work is everywhere, though I haven't put an add in the Yellow pages (just a free listing). We are the only company in the area with a uniform.

I'm currently finding venues hire companies, who start late, have little understanding of their equipment, and whose song selection is lacking compared to mine. One has hired a company where the host sings most the night, another someone who calls up people as and when he feels like it and for as many songs as he fancies.

Customers do stick up for us, and the feed back from customers is good. In 7 years we've upset 1, because he claimed our rotatation was off. So in real terms, compared to most shows, I can't imagaine we have a bad reputation that we don't know about.

Last night one of the venues I'm in said the dreaded word "contest" to try and bring more people in, so there is an indication another owner isn't that happy with the volume of people (though he's tallking about it to me which helps). I don't think their are that more many people out there. One karaoke last night shut early because they had no singers, the other had approx 4 singers (including the hosts BF and Future father in law). We had a steady rotation of nine singers from start to finish and this is normal.

Is finding work in this game more about luck?? and has anyone got any ideas of where we may be going wrong? I'm starting to panic that i'll soon be a diet of 4p beans on toast.

Marble,

Particularly, since you seem to have a "company", more information about your activities would be helpful (i.e. how many shows do you have and how many show have you lost; how many "hosts" do you engage; were any of your lost shows replaced by another karaoke show?)

I say "we" a lot and perhaps I should say I, but old habits die hard

Its a small company, originally four members of staff, (two staff members per show), we had to cut down on staffing costs, to keep our prices in line with the other shows in our area, so we now only have one person per show. Now there is two of us, I tend to host most of the shows, but if i am otherwise engaged (i do cabaret) the other member hosts.

In the past year, we've lost three nights, and gained two (though one is hosting on an in house system... so the pay is just over minimum wage). We currently do two regular karaoke gigs a week.

All of the nights we've lost, changed owners, we had about a 8 weeks with the new owners, before we were let go. Both venues have karaoke on the same nights we had. One i've had no feedback on. The other gig (we did two nights there), I'm hearing complaints about the companies thathave replaced us (different one on each night), though i try and keep out of it.

I'm not sure, with what you described, that you have any reason to be concerned. If after an honest self-evaluation you're convinced the net loss is due simply to changes in ownership, why look any further?

I think, reading between the lines, your only real disappointment is that you replaced one of the lost gigs with one that is paying a good deal less.

As an aside, I know the advantages of doing a job with two people, though it does, of course, cut into profits.

I think part of my problem may be that I'm questioning things to much. But I'm struggling to pay my rent, whilst others are finding work and it leaveds me time on my hands.

Following new owners comments and my gut, I have a feeling some of our problems may be the quality of singers aren't that good. Being one of the friendliest shows, we have attracted a few disabled singers and a few poor singers. I have no problem with anyone singing, I'm with the attitude if you are brave enough to stand on the stage what ever the ablilty, you deseve praise. There are a million others to scared to do the same. However I'm not someone drinking in a pub, who on a night off doesn't want to hear one hour of poor singers with a few good ones thrown in.

I'm wondering if my show is too "singing" customer friendly, rather than customer friend and most importantly landlord friendly.

I lost a gig a long time ago, because when I was hired, i started on time singers or not. The other host in the same venue, chose to suck up to the landlord during this time. Although he had less customers he won the landlord over because he talked the talk.

I joke about the finacial side, but my real frustration lies with a perfectly good set up gathering dust 6 nights a week, bar the private functions.

Marble first off I think you have a fantastic attitude.

Good for you to look at the way you work first off to see if anything is wrong. I can tell by the way you described things, that you have a very balanced approach to your business and a level head.

With the sort of quiet self assurance vibe that you gave off in explaining this and your willingness to ask advice and above all listen, I am sure your setback will only be temporary

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Now please don't get this the wrong way, you asked. I personally think, the above quoted passages of your OP is exactly the problem. And I'm not saying, that this is related to the quality of your show.

But if I were an owner of a bar/restaurant, I certainly look after what I spent on entertainment and what I got in return at the end of the night. And having 6-9 people at a show doesn't sound profitable to me, unless they spend a LOT of money.

I live in a season depending area, too. And as you, there are quite a few KJ's in my area. Some of them are longer in the business than I am. But I would consider a show with 6-9 people a really slow night. On an average night, I have somewhere between 15-20 singers (plus friends, family, etc) . On a busy night it goes up to sometimes 40 singers and more.

Like I said, I'm not trying to offend you, but if you are in the business for 7 plus years averaging 6-9 singers, you really need to improve your skills on building a regular crowd. Go to other shows that are well visited. Watch and learn. A good show is not based on the amount of years your are in the business, but based on your skills of running a good, entertaining show and social abilities.

Dudess, the issue is not you nor your atitude. I'd simply say having the same 6-9 people sing again and again becomes stale. Ego's kick in also.

See if you can shake it up, attract new blood? Advertise?

I've never worked in a tourist area, so I have no idea compared to my situation. I would think the economy probably bites into the amount of people traveling though.

I had a fellow KJ come in Wed. night and tell me I am so lucky I always have some sort of crowd. She KJs in a large venue and could have as many as 150 people a night. She said as of late her crowd has diminished to almost nothing. She asked me if I knew what was happening. I can only assume it is our economy. I work in a small venue, so most of my patrons are regulars where she has different people all the time. She depends on nonsingers as well as singers to come out. I usually have mostly die hard singers. I had a couple slow weeks at the time school started, but it has picked back up. I haven't had anything out of the ordinary happen yet. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the economy doesn't effect me.

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Do you advertise at all? 6-9 singers is dead around here - actually had that at my show last couple nights. Like severin I normally will average 15-20 on a regular night & upwards to 30 or so on weekends - 40 or more happens on occasion but is rare - being it's Halloween tonight, it may happen.
What do you do to promote yourself & your shows? Are there any karaoke search websites that you could add your shows to that cater to that area? Collect emails/MySpace & send out weekly / monthly announcements of whats going on. Set up a MySpace or equivalent if you do not have a website. Banners on the outside of the building? Signs outside? Fliers on the tables throughough the week & maybe a stack for people to take one at the door? See if the owner would put in a little ad in the paper - don't know if you have a 'nightlife' section in your papers over there.
It almost sounds like people really do not know there is karaoke if you are getting the same 6-9 every time.

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Your six regulars may be the very reason that no other singers want to hang out at your show and they may also be the reason your employers are letting you go. I think most singers can take the ocassional bad singer but hearing the same six bad singers over and over would be enpugh for me to look for another place to sing. If a new owner sees that your following is chasing people away instead of attracting new people to stay around and listen, you are going to have a problem keeping any gig. If I walked into a bar and a band was playing very poorly, I would leave. It's not that different at a karaoke venue. People want to be entertained and they want the entertainment to be enjoyable. The other thing that I picked up on is that you are a cabaret performer. Maybe the "vibe" that your show gives off makes people want to sing at a venue where the genre of music is more towards a different style of music? If you and your six regulars are always singing show tunes or cabaret songs; maybe the rock and pop singers choose to frequent a different venue that caters to their musical taste. Maybe you and your six regulars sing the same exact songs every week and that too can get very old very quickly. I personally don't like to sing Show Tunes or any Cabaret type songs so if I ever opened a bar and hired a KJ to bring in a crowd; I'd be quick to fire that KJ if he brought in only 6-9 peopla and they all sang show tunes. However, if that KJ brought in 40 people every night that they worked at my bar and they were all spenders; I'd be up there singing something from RENT because their business would be paying my RENT.

Uniform? Maybe you look TOO professional & they just want to be able to party with a host that is dressed like them? Just a thought.

Can't remember who said it recently, but they said there was a show that advertised the host is always in a tux, nothing about the show or anything else that actually related to karaoke.

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Had that last night too. The singers who showed up were shocked that they could sing practically as much as they wanted to on a Thursday. And I must have sung 4 or 5 myself.

I'm chalking it up to end of the month. And with Halloween coming up tonight people are saving what money (and energy) they have left for that.

I know nothing about British karaoke, and not a heck of a lot about karaoke here in the States really. But under 10 singers on average probably wouldn't keep me employed a lot. You might want to get out and see what's being done in other karaoke establishments in your area. Are they busier? If so, what are they doing that you might be able to pick up on?

I was just thinking about last night. And although it was slow we had a lot of fun. After midnight no one stuck to their routines.

Someone asked me to sing "Love Hurts"... karaoke suicide... OK why not? Boy I'll never do that one again. Whoa that one's high. I kept reaching over and hitting the "Down" button again and again as I was singing. The track kept shifting gears mid-song and people were laughing as the track was bumping along and I was adjusting... I think I ended up down 4!

One of the pool players who is always trying to get anyone to do "Two Of Hearts"... she didn't know it but I set it up for when she came over close to the stage. I said "OK here you go get up here"... How'd she do? Well I'm convinced that when you are young, energetic, and attractive you can pull off anything.

A singer who sings mostly pop did a Poe song. Brought what was left of the place down. A couple who does nothing but edgy alternative material sang "Summer Lovin" to wild cheers throughout the whole thing. A guy who hates Sublime sang "Wrong Way"... the wrong way.

The manager kept looking at me like "Are you really going to do this all the way to 2?" But we did. To normal close of 2:15.

Marble

It may help us to know:
How long you have been in business?
How long have "uniforms" been part of your "thing"?
How long have you been attracting 6-9 singers as a nucleus?

There are several shows in So Florida that have survived for years with no more of nucleus of singers than you have described. Of course, they bring others and there are those singers who come and go.

Stuff like this can be fun with a crowd of regulars. I remember one dead night at a bar I used to frequent, the KJ decided to make it Tribute Night. We all started doing "tributes" to the other singers by singing their regular songs and attempting their style instead of our own. In the most over exaggerated way, of course. It put a fresh spin on the same tired old songs that we'd all heard a zillion times before and was a blast.

I've found it's always the simple things that builds an entertainment business. Everyone with a $499.00 hard drive from craigslist and a computer thinks they are in the karaoke business. For some of us who have been around for a while remember the days when there was only 10, yes thats right ten... laser discs with only 480 songs on them. And yes, evebody and there dog was in karake back then too. What did we learn? It's the simple things that keep you in business: hand wipes for microphones and hands (keep the customers healthy), advertising on the back of karaoke slips, keeping songs updated legaly, books readable, and most important have fun! If you're only there to make money you will never have any fun and patrons can detect that.Just like patrons can detect a karaoke company that has pirated 100,000 songs on a computer. Which goes back to the money fun thing, 7,000 - 15,000 fun singers will beat any karaoke company with 100,000 songs stealing money from legit operators. Won't give away all my secrets but our company goes through 30,000 request slips a month (maybe some go out the door for advertising purposes?). Oh you can still only sing 60 songs in a 5 hour period.
Thanks for putting up with me venting....

Thanks guys, thats given me lots of food for thought. 6-9 singers isn't alot, I think I was just getting comfortable with the knowledge, every other show had less. We used to have more, and we have a lot of semi-regulars floating around i've an e-mail list of 80 people and a stupid number of facebook friends, But sadly in the last year numbers have fallen off (babies were born, three customers moved away, two got night work, two got married so on and so forth).

It's dawned on me as well, my two regular venues are not "town pubs", they're "local pubs for local people", which we've had success in before but it requires a good crowd aswell as karaoke.

Six singers is boring, I did suspect that, and i'm glad someone confirmed that. To be fair, they do sing a range of songs, we're talking frank sinartia, madness, noah and the whale, def leppard... and they will all join in silly games (tribute night does rock to anyone who hasan't tried it) so they tend to get others involved with their enthusiasm. But it is the same six people, week in, week out and one is a problem: He's disabled, quiet but not rude, difficult to understand and sometimes can stare into space. On the stage he is an animal, air guitar, jumping up and down, huge grin, but he's very loud and although in key, previous hosts turning him down, have taught him to scream into the mic to be heard and now he's distorts. He's been bullied by hosts and customers at nearly every other show, (his shorts have been pulled down on stage, people have started fights with him, one host who visited my show called him a "f***ing idiot" to his face... etc) and we, myself and other regulars, are very protective of him. But to some listener's (more so who doesn't know the backstory) he leaves them heading for the door... Perversly in some venues he's joined us crowds have gone wild for him, they stand on chairs and demand encores. In our area he is a karaoke legend, but as one of our venues is on a sunday afternoon, I think he may be too much for them. I have no solution for this... so suggestions very welcome.

Uniforms : Black trousers/ skirts and T-shirts or shirts with the hosts name across the back, My shirt is low cut-ish, fitted and bright pink (we tried for smart/casual) I chose uniforms, because the previous company I worked for had them, and the name on the back was only met with a good reception. Also, I'm not a girl who likes to be fasionable, my own clothes are either suitable for cabaret, gothic, or Jeans and a boyfriends t-shirt so with a matter of gigs i'd have nothing suitable to wear.

I never never realised (doh) that the words Cabaret singer are associated with show tunes. I sing everything and everything (i actually try and avoid show tunes if i can, I'm not keen on them either BruceFan4Life) and try to sing songs that to suit the crowds mood.

In regards to advertisement, I am a whore, the only thing we don't do is a huge banner outside the door. We send texts, e-mail, face book, myspace.... I even use bebo to put all the pictures we take of our customers on display.

As for visiting busy shows, bar two others its us (one is on a monday night in a really cool pub which would be busy with or without karaoke... they have about 5 regular singers all who have preferential treatment and about an hour rotation for the regulars, and non regulars will get one song a night. The other, follows the same forumla as above but they have about 7 regulars) I've tried breaking these crowds and failed, because I refuse to have favourites (and i haven't slept with half of them ), and they quickly get bored of taking their turn.

Most shows have average of three singers, so a nine singer average, thats four for the first rotaion and often goes up to about 15 mid night, is definately good for my area. Mid season even in some of local pubs can see a rotation reach an hour and a half, and we have a lot or regular hoilday makers that return to us each year.

The only thing that does work in our area are competitions, but like most on this site, I hate them. We lose customers to them, but then they all come back, complaining and moaning.

I think I will start playng a few more games and creating more havoc with the regulars, I have lots of li-pops left over from halloween. . .

Edited to confirm as the post above was added 2mins before i posted my essay.
we use hand wipes for microphones and hands,
our advertisment is on the back of karaoke slips,
are songbooks are updated legally with customer requests,
The books are readable (though we do get moans from those who forgot their glasses)
and i love my job. (most of the time.... )

Did I say singers.... It was suposed to be songs...

it's okay DJ DANGERUS i guessed what you meant, and edited my post accordingly. See I agreed with what you said and based my show on your the prinicpals you listed, but for some reason... it's not working. Please PM the secret's I'm missing, I won't tell anyone else :p