Karaoke Forums

A lot has been mentioned about people who just drink water at karaoke shows. Is this a common thing. I never saw it, but I live in Wisconsin where drinking is considered a team sport. Wouldn't bars charge them for water? I certainly would. And what about soda? This has been mentioned as a bad thing as well. I can't drink as I am a diabetic, so what do I do? I drink quite a few diet sodas on my nights out for karaoke so I really don't understand the beef some of you have with non alcohol drinkers. I used to enjoy my beer and a good single malt once in a while.

it seems that a charge for water should be acceptable...especially given that those who take their singing seriously dont want to muck up due to too much drink and yet the venue manager/owner has to justify the expense of the karaoke.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I eat there if possible, buy a Virgin Mary, buy a coke, and tip well. I am always welcomed with open arms.

Going to a lot of pubs these days, I have rediscovered a taste for a medium-rare thick hamburger. A lot of bars serve excellent burgers, and if you don't get bacon and cheese it isn't too bad for the diet.

I am sure this is beginners luck and reality will set in, but so far in the three regular gigs I have, I am sure the bar never even notices our couple/few water drinkers. They are too busy counting their money.....

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

The bar that I go to serve water and coke/soda, but charge it at the same price as beer.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

It's not so much a beef with non-alcohol drinkers, it's a beef with non-spenders in general. I don't have the problem very often but have seen some karaoke bars that MOST is drinking water, coffee, tea but no alcohol - this is the problem, not the occasional non-drinker that can't drink alcohol or a 'real' designated driver. Even if the bar charged for every water/etc & refills, this would not generate evough revenue for the karaoke/employees/overhead. These types of places is where I first saw the $5 token at the door - you pay $5 to get in, you get a token equaling $5 to spend in the bar. Or if available (as Mickey stated) order food to support the club!
But on the flipside, bars that do not charge for these and then on top of it give free refills are dumb to begin with - unless someone has been spending all night & needs to sober up a bit.

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I've seen an even worse problem - empty airplane bottles on the floor where soda-drinkers were seated. They smuggled in their own booze.
If I became aware of any of my karaoke singers doing this, I'd ban them from the show AND report them to bar management so they could be banned from the bar.
I have no problem with non-drinkers, as long as they're doing something financially (food, sodas, etc.) to contribute. The bar has to make some money off the entertainment or it will ditch the entertainment.

But if they are charging for those coffees and teas, and hopefully the water, what's the problem. Since I drink as many if not more sodas than I ever did beers, it should be a horse a piece. Last I checked, those things cost less than booze and should carry the same profit margin anyways. What's next, getting on someone from bringing in there own cigarettes and cigars instead of buying them from the bar? Oh, and yes, the places that have food, I sometimes arrive early for it and make a night of it.

I've seen that problem before, and it was some-what, remedied with charging 4 to 5 dollars for a soft drink......I drink MGD, but I like to buy one bottle of water to last the whole evening. I like a sip or two of water before I sing, but many places don't sell bottled water, and I feel bad excepting a free glass, though I tip the waitress seperately for it.
When I work, I drink water, which the bars really like, because my tab is usually free. I've seen many KJs take advantage of the free tab, and their KJ skills sure go down hill in a hurry.....I personally can't drink, and keep my brain functioning at a optimal level.......

Airgtar

I am going to try to respond as concisely and comprehensibly as possible to your question. Before doing so, let me say that there have been many debates on this forum regarding this matter.

You, as many before have, mentioned the profit (percentage) made on soda. Understand that absolutely no one is adverse to someone not drinking alcohol beverages at karaoke shows; the problem is when a patron is not spending enough MONEY to add to the establishment’s profit. If a bar, in fact, charges $2.50 for every glass of soda, that’s the same as selling a draft beer. However, from what I have experienced in many different geographic area, the pricing policy of bars rarely considers that someone would show up to be entertained and not spend on food and/or alcoholic beverages. As a result, it the exception when a place charges $2.50 for every glass of soda; most give free re-fills!

Others who have reflected thoughts similar to yours have made some of the following comments, which I consider to be virtual excuses for non-spenders:

- Designated driver
- Comes with companions
- Good, entertaining singer
- Gets the karaoke show started as an early arriving and much enjoyed singer
- Is recovering alcoholic
- Can’t drink due to a medical condition

Some, furthermore, find it justifiabe to entirely excuse the behavior of non-spenders when a bar doesn’t serve food and the non-spender has a “legitimate” reason for not drinking! While I don’t question the “legitimacy” of said reasons, I must wonder:

- What is a person, other than a designated driver, doing in a bar who doesn't drink?
- Does the same person who doesn't drink, frequent the bar when it doesn’t offer karaoke?
- Why is my wait in the rotation, as a paying (contributing) customer of the bar, lengthened by those who do not spend (contribute to the shows success)?
- Why is it that the people who don't spend money in bars are the very same people who don't spend money when they go somewhere that offers food?

Some have said that just because an individual doesn’t drink, it doesn’t mean that his/her companions don’t drink. That’s true and I’ve always recognized that possibility. Furthermore I don't believe I or anyone else has ever suggested that the spending habits of people who come in groups is a concern. However, please don’t tell me how that people that don’t drink come in groups; some do, some don’t!

I have described scenarios in past postings in which non-spenders come alone to karaoke shows where they are REGULARS. I explained how common it is for a Florida venue to have very few regular singers (a dozen or LESS). And, furthermore, the attendance at most of these venues is comprised mostly of those who are there to partake in the karaoke. And, obviously, a non-spending “loner” sticks out like a sore thumb under such circumstances! And we have plenty who do just that - karaoke “loners’ who spend virtually nothing, nada, zilch! Some even “show hop” to minimize the obvious nature of what they are doing while they simultaneously maximize their turns at singing!

I’m done. Now I wait for the flaming from the same “know it alls” who have told me in past threads that what I have described hasn’t been part of their experience(s) after thirty years “in the business”. I, of course, can’t help it if they have had a “sheltered” existence with only positive and profitable experiences with karaoke. Venues here that offered karaoke fail regularly.

In closing, I just don’t understand how it has come to pass that karaoke singers, many of whom are fanatical about karaoke, don’t see a need to spend money that supports the venues where they go to sing? And why, once again, are there those of you who excuse such bad behavior?

There will always be people who try to take advantage of any situation. Some people take advantage by going out to a karaoke bar and they don't spend any money. Some people go to karaoke and try to recruit as many duet partners as they can to maximize their song total for the evening. I don't differentiate between the two. I'm not talking about the person who sings one duet in the course of an evening. I'm talking about the guy/girl who sings 4 or 5 times in every rotation but never seems to sing a duet when it is HIS/HER turn. It's also not a situation where the guy/girl is such a great singer that everyone comes running to him/her begging him/her to sing with them. I'm talking about the guy/girl who works the bar asking other people to put in a song so they can sing it together.

A cheapskate is a cheapskate, whether they are nursing a beer, a pop, a coffee. It is up to the bar what they want to do with these people, not the karaoke host.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

With the drunk driving laws, many bars serve sodas for free which makes it difficult for a non-drinker to spend the money. Some solve this by charging for sodas when that is the first drink ordered but not after a person has been ordering alcoholic drinks for the beginning of the night and then wants to sober up. But I know of two different instances where people come to a bar and just ask for ice water and don't spend. One bar solved this by getting in fancy bottled water and charging for that when a person just wanted to order water.

The days of 20 drunk singers are gone.. I can take 6 good sober singers and take over most gigs. If your bar's profit is suffering from a few water drinkers then they have other problems as well.

Why Do You Want Your Singers Drunk??????? Thats like saying people cant take part in the pool or dart tournaments unless they are drinking. Do you actually have gigs or are you living in a fantasy land? This thread blows my mind every time it comes up. And my bar owners or singers would laugh.....

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There is no problem if they are paying for their coffee/water/soda, the problem is if it's an entire bar full of them. Spending or not, this will not pay for the cost of the bar. A handful of them is not going to hurt the bar, just pay for each drink for the support of the bar. Yes there is a bigger profit margin with soda, but since most bars don't charge more than $1-2 per drink, this isn't a supporter.

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How about don't drink because it's poison? You think wanting to drive sane and sober is a "virtual excuse"? Or not wanting to die? Because that's what alcoholics do when they drink, you know.

"Virtual excuses"? Ridiculous. Unbelievable. If it were a bar owner stating such opinions, I would ask the liquor control board to yank their alcohol license.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Does your venues require people who participate in dart or pool leagues to drink also?


BTW we get $2.50/draft and $3.00 per bottle of beer. Non well drinks are more. With 150 seating cap our till runs 2-3 grand on a constant basis. And we have singers that dont drink. They are entertaining the crowd. They have to pay to do this? You people are insane and dont know the bar business.

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If you don't drink, why go to a bar. Well let's see. Maybe to socialize with friends and family?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Karyoker,

You're probably right - if a bar is having problems with the fact that people who attend karaoke are not spending enough, they probably DO have other problems. And, perhaps that's why they hired the karaoke show in the first place, to help stimulate business? So.. does management need a bunch of deadbeats frequenting the show while they're struggling to find ways to make a profit?



Those are, in fact, very real concerns with which I would never argue! Are you suggesting that I have stated that people must drink alcohol or that drunk driving is okay? No matter how you may try to put words in my mouth as you love to do; I'll state very clearly: I'M AN NOT ENCOURAGING ANYONE TO DRINK ALCOHOL OR DICTATING HOW MUCH THEY SHOULD DRINK!!! Rather, I am encouraging those who don't drink alcohol to stay out of bars; especially if they're recovering alcoholics. But I still don't understand why anyone would go to a bar if the bar does not serve food and the patron doesn't drink?



You would? Actually, with no reason to be at a bar you have no right to be there. And attending karaoke is not reason enough, if you do not drink! And any bar owner would be well within his/her rights to ask you to leave because those who hang out in but do not spend money are LEGALLY loitering!

Again, if you don't want to drink- DON'T! But don't go to a bar NOT TO DRINK. Stay home and don't drink! Or go somewhere for karaoke where you CAN spend money without drinking!

Without any further explanation having ever been provided to me in this regard, I can only come to the conclusion that some people who have a desire to participate in Karaoke believe it is a right that they have and they should be able to go wherever they want in order to participate. Well ---it is not a god-given right. If you can't/won't spend money in a bar - stay away from the bar! If you can't find anywhere else to sing == stay home! Or perhaps you could go to the bar owner and offer him $10 cash in light of the fact that you're not providing any other meaningful source of revenue to the establishment!

So according to your logic, unless you are a 'real' designated driver, a person should not go into a bar unless they drink? Maybe they enjoy the company of their friends that hang out there? Maybe they enjoy the entertainment? Why does one HAVE to drink alcohol in order to go to a bar? I agree one must spend something to earn their seat in a bar, but it does not have to be alcohol. But on the flipside, an entire bar of non drinkers would not work, a handful in a crowd of drinkers is not a problem.
Would a person frequent the bar when not having karaoke, maybe not, maybe so if their friends hang out there.
So a the wait of a persons singing time should be determined by how much they spend? Whether the are paying for the coffee/water/soda? The are still spending? Again if this was all that was in the bar, then the bar is not going to make money - bottom line. I know several people that cannot drink due to health reasons, I myself can no longer drink alcohol because I have become allergic - I break out in massive hives & my skin burns when I do. So am I no longer allowed in the bar to sing if I pay for my sodas?
Is the last question referring to the same bar if they offered food or the way I see it going someplace else that offers food. If they aren't spending anything at all, this is loitering & the bartender/manager should ask them to leave. If they are purchasing their dirnks (even non-alcoholic) then they are spending in the bar. Now that the place offers food, one must eat in order to go there? I have been to several places that serve food, but didn't eat. Still ordered drinks.
I'm not seeing your logic here? If a customer is not spending a dime in the place, then the staff should get them out of there - bottom line. You ARE in an establishment that relies on money being spent to survive, even if it's non-alcoholic. That would be rediculous to totally shun those that do not drink simply on that fact alone. If they spend in the bar, then they are paying customers. The bar should be charging for every drink, no free refills.


Again, it is the bars own fault if this non-spending loner is sitting in their bar not spending anything. Chalk that one up to stupidity on the bars behalf, but if that loner is drinking something - even no-alcohol - paying for it they are no longer a non-spender. And again if the bar is giving free refills, once again chalk that up to stupidity on the bars behalf.


Well i'm no where near 30 years in the karaoke business, only been in business 16 years 7 nights at the same place during that time span. Have seen alcohol drinkers & non-alcohol drinkers. When it became a problem for the bar in the mid 90's, they raised their soda/coffee prices from $1 to $1.50 for coffee & $2 for soda and charge the same for refills, no more free refills. Water is now the same as coffee. And they do not allow people to sit in the bar if they are not drinking/spending anything.

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Again someone who doesn't drink shouldn't go to a bar? Nothing was put into your mouth, it's pretty loud in clear, either drink or don't come in - according to you. I have an entire group of recovering alcoholics that come in every Thursday, they buy soda & Red Bulls all night. Since the bar charges $3 (or $3.25 can't remember) per can, they are spending money without drinking alcohol - but they are non-drinkers so again according to your logic they shouldn't be going into a bar because they are recovering alcoholics that don't drink.


But if they are paying for their soda, they are paying customers and no longer loitering.



Since karaoke is in bars say 99% of the time, should the non-drinkers stay home completely? Maybe organize their own karaoke parties at home and invite their drinking friends to their house instead of going to a local club to support a show? Or should non-drinkers & drinker be completely segragated. Non-drinker karaoke parties & drinking karaoke clubs? I'd rather have the handful of non-drinkers come out with their drinking friends rather than having them all go to private home parties not supporting my shows. But that's just me.


I agree with you whole heartidly, if you do not plan to spend a dime, don't go out. Buy your soda (if you don't drink) & become a paying customer.

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