Karaoke Forums

Airgtar

I am going to try to respond as concisely and comprehensibly as possible to your question. Before doing so, let me say that there have been many debates on this forum regarding this matter.

You, as many before have, mentioned the profit (percentage) made on soda. Understand that absolutely no one is adverse to someone not drinking alcohol beverages at karaoke shows; the problem is when a patron is not spending enough MONEY to add to the establishment’s profit. If a bar, in fact, charges $2.50 for every glass of soda, that’s the same as selling a draft beer. However, from what I have experienced in many different geographic area, the pricing policy of bars rarely considers that someone would show up to be entertained and not spend on food and/or alcoholic beverages. As a result, it the exception when a place charges $2.50 for every glass of soda; most give free re-fills!

Others who have reflected thoughts similar to yours have made some of the following comments, which I consider to be virtual excuses for non-spenders:

- Designated driver
- Comes with companions
- Good, entertaining singer
- Gets the karaoke show started as an early arriving and much enjoyed singer
- Is recovering alcoholic
- Can’t drink due to a medical condition

Some, furthermore, find it justifiabe to entirely excuse the behavior of non-spenders when a bar doesn’t serve food and the non-spender has a “legitimate” reason for not drinking! While I don’t question the “legitimacy” of said reasons, I must wonder:

- What is a person, other than a designated driver, doing in a bar who doesn't drink?
- Does the same person who doesn't drink, frequent the bar when it doesn’t offer karaoke?
- Why is my wait in the rotation, as a paying (contributing) customer of the bar, lengthened by those who do not spend (contribute to the shows success)?
- Why is it that the people who don't spend money in bars are the very same people who don't spend money when they go somewhere that offers food?

Some have said that just because an individual doesn’t drink, it doesn’t mean that his/her companions don’t drink. That’s true and I’ve always recognized that possibility. Furthermore I don't believe I or anyone else has ever suggested that the spending habits of people who come in groups is a concern. However, please don’t tell me how that people that don’t drink come in groups; some do, some don’t!

I have described scenarios in past postings in which non-spenders come alone to karaoke shows where they are REGULARS. I explained how common it is for a Florida venue to have very few regular singers (a dozen or LESS). And, furthermore, the attendance at most of these venues is comprised mostly of those who are there to partake in the karaoke. And, obviously, a non-spending “loner” sticks out like a sore thumb under such circumstances! And we have plenty who do just that - karaoke “loners’ who spend virtually nothing, nada, zilch! Some even “show hop” to minimize the obvious nature of what they are doing while they simultaneously maximize their turns at singing!

I’m done. Now I wait for the flaming from the same “know it alls” who have told me in past threads that what I have described hasn’t been part of their experience(s) after thirty years “in the business”. I, of course, can’t help it if they have had a “sheltered” existence with only positive and profitable experiences with karaoke. Venues here that offered karaoke fail regularly.

In closing, I just don’t understand how it has come to pass that karaoke singers, many of whom are fanatical about karaoke, don’t see a need to spend money that supports the venues where they go to sing? And why, once again, are there those of you who excuse such bad behavior?

Karyoker,



Those are, in fact, very real concerns with which I would never argue! Are you suggesting that I have stated that people must drink alcohol? No matter how you may try to put words in my mouth as you love to do; I'll state very clearly: I'M AN NOT ENCOURAGING ANYONE TO DRINK ALCOHOL!!! Rather, I am encouraging those who don't drink alcohol to stay out of bars; especially if they're recovering alcoholics. But I still don't understand why anyone would go to a bar if the bar does not serve food and the patron doesn't drink?

You would? Actually, with no reason to be at a bar you have no right to be there. And attending karaoke is not reason enough, if you do not drink!

And any bar owner would be well within his/her rights to ask you to leave because those who hang out in but do not spend money are LEGALLY loitering!

Again, if you don't want to drink- DON'T! But don't go to a bar NOT TO DRINK. Stay home and don't drink! Or go somewhere for karaoke where you CAN spend money without drinking!

Without any further explanation having ever been provided to me in this regard, I can only come to the conclusion that some people who have a desire to participate in Karaoke believe it is a right that they have and they should be able to go wherever they want in order to participate. Well ---it is not a god-given right. If you can't/won't spend money in a bar - stay away from the bar! If you can't find anywhere else to sing == stay home! Or perhaps you could go to the bar owner and offer him $10 cash in light of the fact that you're not providing any other meaningful source of revenue to the establishment!

There will always be people who try to take advantage of any situation. Some people take advantage by going out to a karaoke bar and they don't spend any money. Some people go to karaoke and try to recruit as many duet partners as they can to maximize their song total for the evening. I don't differentiate between the two. I'm not talking about the person who sings one duet in the course of an evening. I'm talking about the guy/girl who sings 4 or 5 times in every rotation but never seems to sing a duet when it is HIS/HER turn. It's also not a situation where the guy/girl is such a great singer that everyone comes running to him/her begging him/her to sing with them. I'm talking about the guy/girl who works the bar asking other people to put in a song so they can sing it together.

Many of you are apparenlty self-counscious about how little you actually spend and rise up to defend yourselves.

Lonman

Excuse my saying so, but you're just begging the quesition. I'm not the one who originally provided the noted reasons why people don't drink; I'm just repeating them.

Next, "drinking" has become the "coin of realm" because it seems no one outside of Florida is aware of place to go for Karaoke other than bars. It's as if everyone who responds only frequents bars and those bars have no food. Here we have restaurants that offer karaoke and folks buy food as well!

Now in which post ever did I suggest that buying alcohol was the only way to add to the profits of the bar. And lastly, the people who most perturb me are "Loners" that sing karaoke and I have never specifically mentioned anything about any other non-spending type of customer.

So I don't want to hear about the level of their 'friends' participation. As someone else already noted, a freeloading, self-centered, useless patron doing karaoke is just that - regardless of what excuses you or anyone wants to make for them.

And in my neck of the woods a night of karaoke might have no more than thirty patrons and a dozen singers; perhaps 20 patrons with 9 singers. If you can make economic sense out of that for having karaoke, especially if three or four singers spend nothing, go right ahead!

And I don't know whose problem such people are, but I sense that more and more of you, especially with the current economic factore, will join my beating drum!

So, Lon, you and anyone else can try to come up with the mitigating reasons for deadbeats. If I call them a deadbeat it is because they take and don't give. And when one karaoke place that they frequent closes, they're the first ones at the next place. And so on and so on. I've already reported on how many karaoke show are gone here. Regardless of the dynamics involved with their decline they are gone because of financial reasons. So, I guess there's something behind my concerns? And, surely, karaoke deadbeats isn't/wasn't the primary cause - BUT THEY DON'T HELP!

And, out of curiousity, what is your point about "Loitering". I was responding to Mcky57 who wanted to chastise and report a bar owner who might be upset at someone who comes into his establishment and doesn't spend money. Poeple don't have a RIGHT to do that and the owner doesn't have to serve anyone he doesn't want to. Is that all too subtle?

On the other hand the loner water drinker is a bit more of a no value asset for the bar.

I guess I live in a different world. The only requirement we have for our singers is that they get on the stage and give it their all. We pack in partying people and make a profit. I have never seen a bar with a bunch of sober people in my life

If the bag lady or a homeless person ( I have had this happen) wanted to sing I would hand them a mic.

Karaoke at times is not the main attraction. The waitress with cleavage or atmosphere plays an integral part. All who participate whether they are spending money or not contributes to success. If you spend more do you get to sing more? I will argue this until the cows come home for I have managed VFW clubs and I know what I am talking about. Twenty drunk singers no longer makes a show. That novelty is gone. It takes professional sober entertainment. Whether they drink water or orange juice. I do not want my singers drunk...!

But again, this is completely the bars fault for not charging for the water to begin with.

MOst of the time the only way to sing karaoke in public is at a bar. That said I qualify for four of your reasons as I am considered a real good singer (from outside sorces) , I arive early and help start the show as much as I can and because of medication I take on a regular basis I CANNOT drink and having an alcoholic in my family backgound (biological father) I don't want to take the chance that I might become one snce it does follow the genes. Grnted I believe it's been over two months since I have went to a bar for karaoke (not counting my shows).

Well,

All and any of you are welcome to come to So Florida, as Mcky57 does, and you'll be introduced to a variety of places where you can sing karaoke, spend money and never touch a drink. You can start by checking out [url]Floridakaraoke.com[/url] and from the left panel select "Broward" county. Many of the listings may seem like bars only, but most have food.

And while apparenty none of you can relate to such an environment as we have here. don't put "words into my mouth" - I never said anyone needed to consume alcohol; rather that they must spend money. Most of you assumed since you only go to bars for karaoke that I was chastising people to drink. And yes, I did reject the reasons people give not to drink - however I did so stating that they are nothing more that excuses to go into bars and not spend money!

Again, if you don't want to drink- DON'T! But don't go to a bar NOT TO DRINK. Stay home and don't drink!

Many of you are apparenlty self-counscious about how little you actually spend and rise up to defend yourselves. Now, if there is no other way to sing karaoke in your area than going into a bar, and the bar offers no opportunity to spend any serious money other than on alcohol, singing karaoke is not your god-given right. Make way at the venue for those who come and want to spend their money!

If you can't find anywhere to both sing and spend money:

move to florida
or stay home

And, actually, I don't believe that there isn't a place anywhere in the country, ANYWHERE, that people can't go to enjoy karaoke and spend money in doing so. And I don't believe the only places to do Karaoke outside of Florida is in bars!!!