Karaoke Forums

Hi, I run sound in my small church. I have an older "Denonet - Karaoke Key Changer" (-4 to +4 steps) that I occassionally use to shift music tracks to the vocal ranges of our praise team.

What I've noticed is that as I shift beyond +/- 2 steps, the sound quality is increasingly poor. For Example, if the source is a tape, the wow & flutter is VERY noticable and in most cases (regardless if it's tape or CD), any background vocals and/or the music tracks becomes noticably flat or sharp.

I'm looking for advice regarding the newer models of Digital Key Changers available on the market today and if the key changing technology(s) will allow a WIDER range of key changes with LESS distortion.

Any advice or thoughts are welcome.

Thanks

There isn't much in the way of external key changers that are really good. Anything past 2 up or down & you will experience what you describe. Computer based programs won't really do you any good unless you are computer based?

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I don't agree with this comment! There is one EXCELLENT digital key changer, it's call EAX Console from Creative! If you own a Sound Blaster Audigy2 audio card, it came with the software bundle... Now, of course once you go more than +/- 2 steps, you'll affect the sound but you'll NEVER get any glitch or strange rubber sound like some karaoke software are doing

If your goal is to prepare an audio track on your desire key, well, you won't find anything better, trust me, I've must of test them all

But again you are talking a computer based key changer. WHich I admitted there are some good ones. But not a stand alone external that he is inquiring about.

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Well, not sure if he really need an external hardware or maybe use a laptop or desktop to play his file I also don't believe there is a good hardware on the market but perhaps if he uses a pc or laptop combine with a creative audio card, he'll find what he's looking for

This subject really pulls my attention has I served as a beta tester for some companies who really tried matching the EAX Console and so far, no one ever came close! This programmer at Creative is a genius, he really got it right!! Now, I just wish we could get it as a VST plugin for our pro audio software or for our karaoke software

Maybe I assumed too much but I got the idea he needed an external one from the actual model he's using now & two from the line "if it's tape or CD". Which is why I asked if he was using a computer base or not to begin with.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Thanks Lonman, So you're saying that this phenomena is pretty much universal to D.K.C regardless of the AGE of my technology (??) and investing in a newer DKC will not provide much benefit.

Does tis principle also apply to the Combined Karaoke Mixers - where the machine appears to be a combination of CD(G) player; Mic mixer and key changer??

As to your Q whether I'm computer based - Yes, I do use a omputer to deliver both PPT slides AND ripped MP3 tracks to the board BUT I do also have Tapes and CDs that are brought in by visiting artists... So I may simply be SOL at this point.

I recognise that the levels of distortion are driven by the original recording and how that recording was generated - ANALOG iinstruments/vocals vs SYNTHESIZED (most likely MIDI??)

Again, Thanks for your attention...

No, maybe you did assume right I think he'll need to clarify... it's the digital key changer that made me believe he was talking about a computer

Most DKC that change more than 2 up or down are going to generate some weird digital overtones - computer or not.
I haven't heard an external unit like you have that really sounds good. The ones built into the players or karaoke mixers aren't any better either.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Ah. No they sell them external units as 'digital key cahngers' that can be hooked up to any source without needing a computer at all. The one he has now is probably approx from 94 or so when it was actually built.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I didn't know that... But, there's no cdg player on the market capable of giving good results How about the JVC's and Pioneer? Just asking...

Hi Guys, I see I've sparked some good discussions - and thanks for your input.

As I've stated, my current unit is a Denonet (I don't seem to find much on it on the iNet). If what Lonman states is true, I'm limited for the amount of key change I can apply "In Real-Time" for a visiting artist that needs this function. If what you're saying is true, IF I have the time to RIP the track to MP3 (or other computer-based format), then I can apply Key-changing program as you suggest (the key here is getting the track ahead of time to make the requested key changes)

Good discussion - thanks again. (BTW, I'm John)

The Pioneer is slightly better than the JVC, but still not much if going more than 2. Start getting a pulsing sound & the background singers start sounding like devils or chipmunks

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Yes, some great discussion Lonman is right about the +/-2 key change, it's not that the key changer can't do his work properly it's just that you're affecting too many things like the back vocals! Yes, I do suggest you prepare your track before.. Some instruments will let you adjust more than +/- 2, acoustic guitar or piano alone will sound ok with EAX Console but forget it if you have back vocals

Another question just crossed my mind - most of our discussion is revolving around DIGITAL Key Changing (this maked sense given that most of our modern audio AND video is/is becoming a DSP signal.

So the question (I promise ) is: what about ANALOG Key Changers?? Are there/WERE there - such animals?? My guess is they are largely "Prehistoric" and nowhere near as functional as todays DKCs that use DSP internally (analog-Digital- analog)

John (aka Mickyratz)

Analog key changers were nothing more than pitch wheels. The way they worked was if you wanted to raise the key - you sped the source up, slow it down to drop the key. This were built into sources like turntables, tape players like reel to reels sometimes had the ability & even a handful of cassette players, but nothing that could be added externally.

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Thanks Lonman,

So ends our discussion - Nothing exists in the Analog world as a standalone device; DKCs provide argueably acceptable key changes within +/- 2 steps.

Many thanks to both you AND to Micky for your input and guidance.

Best Regards, Mickyratz