Karaoke Forums

So now I am reading that copying your music to software and playing from the program instead of the original disks is illegal. I paid for all of my disks, I don't make copies of the disks and sell them. I keep every disk. Still illegal?

Depends who you talk to on this subject. Hang on to your panties - seems like this is a very divisive subject on this forum. There are those who believe that any and all format shifting is ILLEGAL; however, having read as much as I can find about this, and only information that is relatively current (less than two years old), the powers that be are fighting a losing battle attempting to make format shifting illegal.

Where it gets gray (and really more black than gray) is once those CDGs are ripped, they must essentially be put away. In other words, if you decided to lend your previously ripped CDGs to someone to use at a paying show somewhere (other than someone's private home), you're considered to be breaking the cardinal rule - you can't use the same set of music (computer and CDG) at the same time. So, if you use your ripped CDGs and your computer on the same night... GUILTY! If you sell your CDGs once they're ripped (and you keep the computer copies), you're guilty. And every song you have on your computer must have a corresponding hard copy somewhere. There are those that carry their CDGs to prove that they have copies; others will say you have so much time to present them as proof. I don't carry my discs but I have a legal hard copy of every single song that is on my hard drive.

Conversely, of course, there are people everywhere who have put together one hard drive full of songs (whether they actually ripped their own music or bought a pre-loaded hard drive), then duplicated it several times so they are multirigging with totally illegal libraries...and no one seems to really care.

It's really a conscience issue. MTU Hoster has information on their site about the legalities of format shifting - this is a company that has been around for a long time and they create software specifically for format shifting. They have paid for the research to be done and you can read it on their site. It is probably the most up-to-date info around. Of course, if I'm wrong about that someone will surely say so here.

Yes. No. Kinda and maybe. This topic has been talked to death on this forum and it's still as clear as mud. I suggest that you read the copyright laws and make up your own mind.

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Okay, who took my pants?

if you are looking for a definitive answer you will be looking for years. My view is if you own the originals and you rip them to your hard drive for professional or home use you are probably safe, but there are no guarantees.

You can debate this until the cows come home and still never have a good answer. As Karen says...it's a matter of conscience than anything else. Do what feels best for you and your situation.

Personally I think everyone here has grown tired of the subject.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I actully like the subject myself... If you go to " thekiaa.org " your answeres are very "CLEAR" No "Black"or "GREY" area just a simple "I bought, Paid and own "it"" solution for every single system you own. It is litrally that simple. No my karaoke company is not a member right now but I do have Tens of thousands dollars invested (karaoke music) in my company. In the United States "Piracy" is a felony it is that simple. Illegal karaoke companies try to complicate these forums because they know they are in the wrong, but Im not here to set it straight. I'm just going to leave it up to " thekiaa.org " for now because my bussiness "VALUE" relies on what happens next... and any legal karaoke company in the US should understand where there money is, is'nt or will never be spent again!

This subject always pops up ..I think the "LAW" is concerned really with the big fishes who are multi copying and selling mass quantitites of pirated material. Not the MOM AND POP KJ who just ripped there collection of cdg's to mp3+g's.
Following is a list of other illegal actvities that I'm sure everyone has BROKEN once or twice in your lifetime......

going 1 MPH over the posted speed limit
driving a car with a blood alcohol level of over .08 ( not talking about extremely drunk driving but driving after 1 or 2 drinks)--Illegal in most states
Rolling thru a STOP SIGN
Stretching the numbers on your income tax donations

Bottom line --people have been copying music ..ever since there was MUSIC
Albums to 8 tracks - 8tracks to cassettes - cds dvds mp3 ..you name it society has always converted the OLD format to the new one anytime its been REVISED
Go ahead and copy your library ..( just don't get caught)

Here is a quote from thekiaa.org site:

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

From thekiaa.org website: The KIAA definition of piracy is the unauthorized and intentional act of copying, selling, distributing, acquiring or the transferring by any method, means or manner, sound recordings that are not in the public domain or subject to “fair use”, regardless as to whether the rights holder(s) in the underlying work (musical composition) is the same as the rights holder(s) in the sound recording.

There is a licence for format shifting in the UK now which has a 'karaoke uplift' (more expensive because you use lyrics aswell). Its primarily for DJs and Fitness instructors who move their CDs onto mp3/HDD for commercial use. However, in a legal sense, it doesn't cover you at all there is no legal definition as yet. However PRS/MCPS say that KJs should have it, should be reported if they don't have it and those who do stump up the £300-£480/year depending on the amount of tracks they have will be put on their 'nice list' which PRS circulates to clubs & bars to indicate their 'legitimacy'.

This from their website.
14. What reporting will I be required to provide to MCPS or PPL?

Once you have applied for your ProDub Licence you will not be required to submit any further reporting. However, it is a requirement of the licence that you keep some form of record of the copies you make under your ProDub Licence, as MCPS may request that you send this information to them and/or allow them to verify this list.

Logistically, I can't see how this is possible. That being so, I could go buy a pirated HDD and a produb licence and I'm in business and on their nice & legit list to boot!

What if you buy the songs online?
There is no Hard copy?
And the only KJ I know has all of his music on a hard drive I doubt if he has any originals.
Not that i'm saying thats ok , i'm just saying I don't think the feds are going to be busting down your door. Myself, I plan to be legitimate about it and purchase all of my CDG+S and then burn them just for ethical reasons.

That's one reason I never bought online songs... in digital format. Always had them shipped to me on a cdr... that way I could prove ownership.

I suspect if ever questioned on it, you could show them your purchase emails and receipts... be a bigggg pain in the watoosie!

DJ, you constantly promote this site and yet aren't a member yourself. Why?
As for it being "CLEAR" on the website, as you say, far from it!

I think some of the laws here may vary by state. However, it has always been my understanding that if you have purchased the music for personal use and not to distribute or copy for sale then you have unlimited use to copy to any electronic format so long as you maintain ownership of the original. In purchasing an mp3g file etc. you must maintain hardcopy receipts or documentation showing that you have purchased through a legal means. Just like mp3 downloads, enforcement is slim, and they probably dont bust 5 % of the people that do it but you dont want to be there if they do because the penalties are STIFF!

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Thanks everyone. Any records of people being busted for it? I do have hard copies of everything I have and I prefer to keep it that way, I just wanted to know that I' m unlikely to get in trouble for ripping my cdg's to wma format as long as I can back up what I have. One of my daughter''s friends was busted earlier this year for sharing music on line, not pretty.

Thats actually the prime area where they target. People of high school and college age, especially on the college campuses. The reason thats illegal is because for a long while it was basically free for all rampant file sharing groups. It was nothing to go online and get any song you wanted that someone else had, just like googling something now. You just typed the name in of any song you wanted and there'd be 100 copies in every version you could think up (ex. Napster) but most of them are 99 cent downloads and such now. You could probably still do it if you were techie smart and knew where to go. I'm not a real tech guy so I dont know, and I imagine if the Gov wanted to get you, they would.

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I have seen cases in the past for clubs being busted for computers/copied karaoke, however it was the clubs red flag by not paying their ASCAP/BMI fees that brought the heat down originally then went & checked out if the kj was legit at the same time. There was one in Spokane here last year I believe.
I do not know of any case to date of a kj being hit simply on the premise of a legit 1:1 ratio (no multi rigging) transfer of media to computer.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I have been using several download services to purchase singles (what my customers want) and YES I keep email records of all my purchases JUST IN CASE.
Gonna make the jump to computer just after first of the year. Gonna take my chances and I will not be selling off my originals.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Thanks guys. That brings me to another question. How to take downloaded karaoke songs and reformat them to compuhost. I have more than 40 such songs that I have purchased on iTunes. I tried renaming them in my external hard drive to the format compuhost is look for, put all the dashes in the correct places but when trying to import, it doesn't recognize the music and says no new files found even though I put in the correct path to the files. Is this possible? Bad deal buying these songs at a buck a piece and I don't even have the lyrics.

Here's the problem. Most of the time, if not all of the time, when you download from itunes you get files in apple/itunes proprietary format. There may be some conversion software out there but as I'm not an apple / itunes / ipod / iphone fan I wouldn't know what it is. The problem probably isn't with the file name, rather the file extension. Like regular music files (PC based) are typically in MP3 format, or sometimes WMA (Windows Media Audio), WAV, AAC and others. I believe the file extension on their itunes music files is M4P but not positive. So look at those 40 files and see if they aren't something like PapaLovedMama.m4p or something like that. If they are, and you just have to use em, you'll have to find some software to convert the files to a usable format for your hosting program.

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Thanks robbie.