Karaoke Forums

Fun questions.....

What database are you using for your songbooks, MS Access, Excel, KJ Program, MySQL etc?

What is your naming convention eg:

Jam, The - A Town Called Malice
Weller, Paul - Wild Wood
Paul Weller - Wild Wood

etc.

Rotations...

New singers always added at the end of the rotation, mixed in with singers who have already sung etc?


My setup:
I'm using a MySQL db on a custom written java program controlling winamp. The db also feeds the songlist on my website. I can create pdf songbooks from this db also.
Songbooks are all 'First Last' names with 'A' and 'The' moved to the end for artists. Songtitles are exactly as they would be written on the original artist cd.
Rotation is all singers added to the end during the first rotation, then a 2 old, 1 new policy on subsequent rotations.

I'm working on releasing the program as shareware but wanted to get some feedback as to what you would like at a basic level.

- Jonn

MS Access

Listed First Name Last Name - alphabetized by last name however so looking for Garth Brooks under B not G. If it's a band name - obviously by first name - Led Zeppelin is under L.
The & A are listed at the begining but will alphabetize by the word after so
The Rose would list exactly like that under R for Rose.

New singers get inserted. First rotation is pretty much first come first served. Once I start over, new singers get inserted.

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I use MTU Hoster's songbook, but am going to move to Latshaw's program.

I do "Last, First" with bands being "Band, The" (if I have "The" at all). I have a program which has gone through and found most of the typos and have very few left (except some duets which are always a pain).

I have a first rotation, calling out "last call to get in first rotation" about 3 singers before the end. After that we insert at the 5th singer (our scrolling marquee shows four). Sometimes inserted later if very crowded.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

MS Access

Patsy Cline - Crazy(SC).zip Sound Choice



Depends upon the size of rotation and which hour we are in.

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That sounds like a lot of programming overhead that no one needs. Simple is better. Just a suggestion....

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Okay, who took my pants?

Mcky57, does the fact that your scrolling marquee shows four singers, by continuing to add new singers to the rotation (talking about the 1st rotation here), does that ever upset people to see their name on the scrolling marquee but not advancing and perhaps even being dropped off of the marquee completely if 3 or 4 new singers are added at once? I can't remember from when I tried the demo of Compuhost, but can you turn on and off the scrolling marquee, perhaps start it with the start of the second rotation, and can you designate how many singer names are shown? (I think I remember that you can)

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That has happened, but not usually. Anyone who gets bumped has already sang, and they don't have too many complaints if someone else has not. But it can get tiresome to be on the list and constantly be bumped off, which is why we close the first rotation 15 minutes before it ends.


Yes, you can do all that. And it might well make sense.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

This is a subject close to my heart as I've been thinking of posting it myself. (About rotation/insertion)

My system at the moment is surprisingly identical to Mckyj57's in that I go through the first rotation then once I've started on the 2nd run I would insert after 5 songs but not in a block of more than 1. I.E. 1st new singer then an existing singer then another new singer. As has been mentioned though it moves the existing singers down the list and I always get the moan "Singer A has sung twice and I've only sung once".

I'm constantly thinking of new ways to do it but I can't.

BTW RLC I love that signature about being the fastest and most victorious sperm !

I feel better already !!!

I used Microsoft Works database because that's what I have. Six fields:

first field artist name in first name last name format. I didn't do last name first name because it seemed like an unnecessary complication. If I know the artists last name then I'm going to know their first name too.

The hard decision was whether to enter "The Doors" or "Doors, The". Again I went with the simple solution. I realize that I could wind up with two pages of "The ####" this way.

Second field song title again keeping it simple (The Chair instead of Chair, The)

Third field disk title (The Greatest Hits of George Strait Disk 3)

Fourth field song number on the disk

Fifth field Disk number (this is useful for resorting - sort by disk number then song number puts everything back in order of entry)

Sixth field is manufacturer (Sound Choice, Chartbuster etc) not sure how useful this might be

I'm thinking about adding a seventh field to indicate a preferred version of a song for multiples of the same title.

This is for my home setup. I'm not a KJ.

I use KJfile manager to correct my file structure and names. Then I use song book creator to print my books. I have my files with the artists name as such
Elvis Presley - First Name and then Last Name. I find that's how Most people look it up. I also remove "THE" from the Artists groups. ...but I have Bon Jovi listed as BON JOVI ..not Jon Bon Jovi.

Rotations ....

When I first started I use to keep a very strict rotation, but the busier it got it sometimes I would MISPLACE a slip or put one singer in front of another by mistake. I would then have ANGRY ANGRY singers so upset because SUZY sang before he did and that was not the case last rotation. FAIR rotations is a MUST for any reputable KJ... But I have gotten off the STRICT STRICT rotation. If I have a singer who is going to get UPSET and ANGRY because they had to wait an additional 3 minutes and 19 seconds ... That to me takes the FUN out of KARAOKE and I'm not sure I want that type of singer anymore. AGAIN ... I run a FAIR rotation and now with my new software which has rotation mgt It should be a lot easier.

Thanks to you all. I understand there are many different ways people want to run their show and I want to be able to include some or all of them in my program so that others can use it in a way that works for them.

As for the system being complicated, it has slowly progressed over the past few years. The setup may have been complicated over time but now it is fairly easy to use and means my website always has 100% up to date song listings. When I want to print a new book I just load it from the website in pdf form and it's ready to go. The same database is behind the hosting program so that the song list is up to date and I can search for new songs as soon as I've added them yet before the next book is printed.

I'm working on making the system multi-rig compatible so that I can track multiple song databases from a single set of singers and the system will choose whichever version of the song I happen to have on that rig.

Why do I do all this? I like the challenge! It's very satisfying to see everything come together. I am a software developer by day and karaoke host by night!

- Jonn

The ones that complicate things are the people with different bands through the years, eg. Eric Clapton, Cream, Derek and the Dominoes, etc. Or Eric Burdon and the Animals vs. just the Animals or War or just Eric Burdon. I found a couple of these people with the same song in various places in our book because I put them in the way the manufacturers had them and they differed.

We have ours last name first but I can see the logic behind alphabetizing by the first name. Healy, Jeff Band doesn't make sense so I list them as Jeff Healy Band but then you might have Healy, Jeff on his own somewhere else in the book. Another one that comes to mind is Mama Cass Elliott. People are more likely to look for her under Mama Cass than Elliott and using Mama puts her closer to the Mamas and Papas so they are all in the same place.

How do others handle this?

Oh--didn't answer all the questions: We use Excel, last name first. Admittedly am not consistant with the "The"s and "A"s. We tend to take those off the artists and leave them at the end of the song titles but may rethink that.

Roatation so far is adding new singers at the end but we usually don't have more than 15 singers as we have just started. We haven't bought a computer program for that yet so we have a small dry erase board for the singer order and some clothespins on a sting attached to the side of the rack to keep singers slips as some like to line up all their ducks in the beginning and hand us a pile to do "in that order."

that's a good question and is valid for duets too. I think I'll probably double enter it. Put it under both Cass Elliott and Mama Cass Elliott.

I'll probably enter a duet with Merle and Willie under both names as well.

I put duets under who's album the song actually was on. Close My Eyes Forever is listed under Lita Ford with Ozzy Osbourne since it was actually her song. Picture is under Kid Rock with Sheryl Crow.

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Rotation - It's not as simple as we try to make it

Now I would be curious as to when everyone considers their first round of rotation done.?
I'll usually go an hour. Then I start from the top inserting new singers towards the end of the second round. (This is an average night)

I find on most nights I can get everyone in to sing their first song before the official end of the first rotation (an hour). People straggle in usually in the first half and hour. So as they come in I add them to the bottom.

Now it depends, if I start out with a solid 10 or 15 and no one comes in for a while. Then I'll put them at the end of the second rotation.

It mainly depends on the flow of people coming in and how many singers there are. The main goal is keep everyone happy.

If I only have 5 or 6 singers of course if someone comes in an hour later they will be put at the end. I really think the amount of singers you have determines how rotation will flow.

Some nights I walk in and I already have 15 singers waiting. I have index cards for all the regulars, so then comes the figuring out of who goes where. I know my regulars well enough to know who wants to go right away, who likes to wait a few songs, and who wants to go last. I'll put husbands and wifes next to each other with the women first. People like this. As I add new people into the rotation I try not to break up husbands and wifes. There are several reasons I do this and people thank me for it.

There is more to rotation then just when you add people. Obviously no one has a rotation that is as simple as you start with 3 people then one new person comes in an hour later and you add them to the end. People are already there when we walk in the door and slips are handed to us in bunches.

It is different for me because I use index cards. I pull peoples cards as soon as I see them come in. So if I walk in the door and they are already there I need to figure out an order. Of course if a new person hands me a slip I need to add them in also.

Okay second question -
Where is the end of your rotation after the first round?
If someone hands you a slip do you put them right before the singer who just sung? or do you put them at the end of what your original 1st round was? or do you add in new people to what is the end of that particular rotation?

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I consider the first round done when I reach the last slip that has not sang yet before getting the person who kicked it all off up again. It is usually under 15 singers, but closer to 10 on busy nights. If I have more than that, I guage the time when they put it in & once I hit a max of 15 singers, anyone putting in slips after a certain time point will be incorporated into the next round as I do not want to have a neverending first rotation. If I am on the last song or two of where the rotation would end & someone puts up a new song, they will get mixed into the next round as well.




For this amount of singers, yes I would tend to throw them in at the end as even if inserted, they typically would wait about 20 minutes anyway.



once the first round is over there really is no end especially if you get alot of new singers.
But I would consider the end to where the singer that ended it last time was to be the end.
New singers get inserted - typically about a 20 minute wait for their first song and if I get new singers all throughout the 2nd round I will usually end that round with a new singer after the one who ended it last time, then the process starts over - if there were remaining new singers from the 2nd round, they get incorporated into the third & so on.

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He He He

Even I had to read this a few times and I'm a KJ. I don't think the average punter has any idea of what goes on in the booth. I'm sure they think sometimes that we just stand there banging songs on at random and favouring our "friends" or those whose birthday it is tonight - or those whose taxi is coming in 10 minutes so I need to sing now - etc etc etc (we've heard 'em all !)

Rotation is way more complicated then people think. I try my best to make it as fair as possible, but it doesn't matter there is always someone who is going to complain.

I try to make everyone feel special, but with a rotation of 40 people that is hard to do.

I had an older gentlemen the other night who walks with a cane come in. He has been in a few times before, but they were slower nights. He came in this time on a Friday which is the busiest night. I always make sure he has a seat by the stage because of his disability. I help him onto the stage taking his cane for him and handing him the mic. I had probably 35 to 40 people in the rotation that night. He sang once and I just knew what he was thinking at this point because there were so many people, so I went down to him and let him know it would only be 4 more people and he'd be up again.

Well he leans over and says to one of the regulars "I guess you have to know somebody to sing here". She explained to him I don't play favorites and if he's noticed no one has sang twice before him. They have been waiting as long as him. He got up and left.

She told me what happened and I was so disheartened. I had been nothing, but nice to him. I get so angry with people who complain to everyone else, but me. If they would only come to me I could explain and show them what I'm dealing with. I figure it's his loss. I'm sure most KJs don't dote over him I did.

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I am a relative newbie and still learning, but I use Excel for my songbooks.

My naming convention is

(Individuals) Last, First

(Groups) As Printed, If "The" preceeds name, it is inserted at end after comma

(Duets) - Primary Singer = Last, First, then & (Second Singer, etc.) First Last

Ex. Nicks, Stevie & Don Henley - Leather And Lace

(Broadway Show Tunes) Ex: Showtunes (West Side Story)

Rotation: I use Siglos Karaoke Pro. Standard format is to insert new singers at the end, but if it is a long rotation, I will insert new singers as the next or second singer up, inserting them into the rotation so they don't have to wait long to sing their first song.