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We KJ's may entertain at places that serve liquor, but not all of them are bars.

We entertain at bars, but not everyone in attendance is drunk

While alcohol is the primary cause of drunkeness in bars, drukeness is an explanation for bad behavior NOT AN EXCUSE!

And why should my wife, who works with me, be subjected to bad behavior because we are putting on a karaoke show?

Hubby and I both work shows ... and we're always in attendance at the other's show; however, an outsider would be hard pressed to know that we are an item because we have NEVER advertised it. Not to be cold to each other for sure, but in order to do the job right, I believe, you must maintain a level of propriety. On the other hand, if hubby thinks a drunk is getting too close or improper with me, he has no problem interjecting.


I guess we do a good job about maintaining approrpiate distance from each other because I've had people mention at the end of the night often that, "Hey, that guy is a really good singer," not realizing we are 'related.' I just smile and say I'll pass on the compliment to him on the way home.

Probably another thread, but to my mind, PDAs (not the handheld kind) are totally inappropriate in a host ... make the singers feel like they're interrupting some sort of rendezvous. I went to a show where the hostess proceeded to hang all over her latest fling and it was very embarrassing to many in the room...and she did it at every show.

In my opinion, if you've been at a venue any length of time, and the owner, and the bartenders know you, and your views about improper advances, etc. After the first time the guy screamed across the bar "hey karaoke chick", if they had any cohones, they would have said, "hey pal, the "lady" heard you the first time, She's not interested." Again, maybe it's just me, but I think respect has fallen by the wayside. I'd better shut up now, I'm starting to feel old.

Bad behavior, from a drunk or sober person, is not limited to things that may be said.

They include, but are not limited to:
swinging mics
coming up to sing uninvited when its not that person's turn
screaming f-bombs

It never would have occurred to me that some people would be offended by the term "chick," or "dude" for that matter, at least in the context of karaoke at a bar. Just shows you really have to be careful what you say to people if you don't want to cause any trouble or offense.

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I agree, Tom. Those of us females who are not in our 20s anymore obviously are NOT chicks.......but I certainly wouldn't want to be called an old HEN! Either way, it is always best to err on the side of propriety. Patrons who are too familiar initially either embarrass themselves beyond belief and end up leaving and never coming back, or garner a rep with the regulars who then ultimately end up giving them the cold shoulder. Oh well....and btw, the term 'dude' to me doesn't have the same connotation as 'chick.' Chick can be used in very derogatory terms whereas dude just indicates a male.

I think the females on this forum probably relate to this ... too many times I've overhead dudes talking about this chick or that chick and it usually isn't very complimentary. All comes down to semantics and sensitivity apparently.

As a guy host I have no physical contact with the female singers unless they start it. But if they touch you first then it's usually OK if it's friendly reassuring hug type stuff.

That's kind of what they are looking for. Almost all of my regular female singers reach out for a hug either when they arrive of just before they leave. It's OK with their partners. They know I'm not hitting on them.

It's been interesting reading this thread from the female hosts' perspectives though. They face different challenges than us guys. What Babs did seemed totally appropriate given her description of the event. The guy was a dominating blowhard looking for attention.

Diafel - Very very well said !

Marble - I too use humor to diffuse situations. It gets the point across in a nonthreatening way.

Doing karaoke for as many years as I have I have learned how to deal with the men in several different ways. DangerousDan you obviously have never had to deal with a karaoker stalker or men that can misinterpret niceness as an open invitation to harrass you.

I've learned a lot of my skills from the female batenders. Believe me they don't just smile and allow it. The female bartenders I've known through the years are much harsher then me.

YOU HAVE TO SET BOUNDARIES. I'm sure us girl KJs could have a whole thread on how to deal with men in bars. One of the big rules has to do with touching. I won't slow dance with any man in the bar. That is a hard fast rule. If one person sees you doing it they all think they can and are offended if you say no. I do not want to have a bad interaction with a drunk who doesn't understand why I won't dance with him. That goes for any touching. If men see that you think it's okay to let one person hang on you or touch you, they think they can. Bartenders have the bar in between them and the customers. We don't have that protection.

My fiancee comes into the bar rarely, but when he does I try and make sure everyone knows who he is. This helps guys realize I'm not on the market !

If you let people treat you like trash in a bar they will. I have had to tell guys before this isn't a strip club. It isn't appropriate to ask me to unbutton my blouse one more button for $50. Geez !

I always have someone watch me walk to my car because I've had incidences of men waiting outside for me. I've had notes left on my car that were pretty disturbing also. I had one really bad stalker and let me tell you that was no fun !

I don't think letting some guy I don't know from adam treat me any way he wants in a bar and then just smile and turn away. Not a good idea. It is safer to let them know where you stand right then and there. For all I know this guy is a sex offender and I've just given him the go ahead that I'm a push over.

DangerousDan I can say with a %100 assuredness - You have no clue what you're talking about !

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what she said....Thanks Babs.

COMPLETELY agree. The fact that you work in a bar is irrelevant.

How would Dan feel if someone said that to his mother, or daughter? No matter where they are? The fact is, if someone says ANYTHING of ANY nature and is immediately told something along the lines of "you just pushed a boundary", they need to IMMEDIATELY back off, apologize, or they earn what's coming to them.

While we've been joking on the site about the inappropriate comments, I think most of us guys were actually appalled by the boldness of what was said... It's not like you went up to the guy and shook 'em at him enough to justify such a comment.

It was rude, and he was a rude person to say it.

There are ways to tell someone you think they're attractive, or have attractive qualities. Gal at work today told me she liked my butt, but said it rather uniquely."

"DAYUM!"

I turned around and went "What?" She just continued to star at my butt, even moving around to continue looking at it, with this big grin on her face. I laughed, and spanked myself, and the office went wild with laughter.

Now TO ME, and ONLY to me, I consider it a flattering situation. AS LONG as that's as far as it goes... if this gal had continued with comments or even a suggestion, I'd have to say something to detour herself away. BUT, in any sort of personal situation, you HAVE to know the boundaries.

Being told "you have big boobs" is just majorly inappropriate.

Next time, slap the (*&^ out of him, Babs... end of conversation!

I still think that the bar bears some responsibility for keeping people in line. Maybe they didn't know about the "boobs" comment, but (as a former bartender) you can bet your last dollar, if some "dude" was at the end of the bar and everytime he wanted the bartender's attention he'd yell "hey barkeep", the bartender would have put a stop to that REAL QUICK. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't even have to have been a "dude", it could very well have been a "chick" yelling, same result. It's not a matter of gender to me, it's a matter of "R-E-S-P-E-C-T", FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS TO ME. Oops I got off track there, sorry, I'm ok now. Bye!

Rosario

Hey! That was MY line! Lol


EXACTLY!
Just a note to the guys (ok only SOME of the guys!): It is NEVER OK or appropriate to speak to a woman about her boobs unless she is your girlfriend and you are alone where noone can overhear. Please understand this: NEVER!
We've heard it before. We know you like them.
We know we have them and we certainly know what size they are.
We live with them every day. We DON'T need to be told.
There are a ton of men out there that think that because we happened to be "blessed" that we are ok with and even deserve that kind of inappropriate attention.
Most of us didn't choose it and if you think we're "blessed", then you can try carrying them around with all the backaches and all the inappropriate comments and advances thrown your way and then tell me how "blessed" you are!
I certainly know how you feel about the stalkers, Babs. I've had my share and they are scary! The fact that they are out there is what makes me draw my lines IMMEDIATELY, hard and fast, because like you said, there are guys out there (a ton!) who seem to think if you say hello to them, even in an innocuous way, that you must be interested in them and once they start, they just can't believe you aren't interested.
Bartenders and cocktail waitress are no exception to this and I dare say are just the opposite!
I also say: Dan, you have no clue.

Again Babs, everyone is entitled to their own sensibilities. I agree that setting boundaries is important for any woman dealing with men in the service industry. And not only would I not slow dance with a patron, I wouldn't fast dance with them either! I'm not there to dance; I'm the "hired help" and I'm hired to host a karaoke show.

But there's a huge difference between saying "Hey karaoke chick!" and someone touching you. I'm sure the guy who said that meant no malice and probably wasn't even trying to come onto you. In that instance, I still maintain you overreacted. If he persisted after you just smiled and said, "You can call me Babs" rather than confronting him with "hey drunk guy" I would have just ignored him. He was obviously doing it to get attention, not to dis you.

I try to avoid confrontation with drunk people or even acknowledging any personal remarks I might find denigrating. Wouldn't it have been easier just to turn away from the "big boob" guy without saying a word? Why did you find it necessary to verbally engage him and perhaps escalate things? It would be different if after you walked away he again came over and said it again. I'm sure the guy just thought he was complimenting you.

I try not to let my past personal experiences color how I react to people. Everyone is an individual. To automatically think "all guys are the same" and to react in that kneejerk fashion is unnecessary. I've been called an a$$ho!e, a racist, a fat tub of lard and other epithets by drunk male patrons over the years. I find it best not to engage with them at all...as most are just looking to get a rise out of you. Similarly I've had female patrons come up to the stage and start touching and rubbing against me in an effort to get moved up in the rotation. Babs, I guess with your thinking I should have recoiled and gotten security to 86 them. Isn't it easier just to take their hand off and say something disarming like, "Nuh uh, no touching!" and let the show go on? when. Most times they don't know what they're saying, don't mean what they're saying and won't remember they said it.Again, another harmless remark made by a drunk guy I might respond to disarmingly with, "Hey how about if I give you $100 to button UP your shirt!"Ding, ding, ding! OK, that explains a lot. I can see why that might make you hyper vigilant and perhaps a little overzealous about shutting things down. But I still believe in the parable about the windstorm and how the sturdy oak who doesn't bend cracks in half while the pine who bends with the wind survives the storm. Treat such comments like a joke - rather than something you took seriously - will do more to disarm a guy than a loud protest. A guy will walk away and feel more embarrassed about being laughed off than about someone actively contentious which he might see as "a challenge".

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According to Karen it's okay to call a male a dude


Well then, if I said that it's okay to call a female a "chick" - it just means "young gal" - I guess that would make it okay? Right? Of course a "hen", which is also fine to use, denotes an "old gal"

And, of course, a "dudette" is a female dude, and ..............
In no way, IMHO, am I being derogatory with any of said usages!!!

Dan, you're thinking like a GUY, not a WOMAN. Go figure.
Girls CAN be confontational because guys don't see us as a threat. And oftentimes, in cases such as have been presented here, we MUST be confrontational.
Men cannot be, because they will start a fight. They must take a different approach.
But then again, when was the last time a drunk guy came up and complimented you on your boobs?
And as I recall, she DID let him know SEVERAL times, but he kept at it.

.
Again, you're thinking like a guy. They are NOT saying it to get a rise out of us (as women). Just TRY to see the other side, will you?



No, it's NOT easier. You MUST be stern the FIRST time or they WILL try again.
Dan, there are guys out there that just DON'T get it.
As someone else said, being drunk and not being able to remember what they did is NO excuse! They are aware the next day that perhaps they did things, and they are aware they don't remember.
They are in control of how much they drink and of taking that first drink.
If they get that bent out of shape, then perhaps they shouldn't drink at all.


Now THAT is what will get a man ANGRY and create a VERY dangerous situation.
A woman laughing at a man's attempts to make advances can create a volatile situation which I would NOT want to be a part of.
Again, you're thinking like a guy. A guy can laugh at another man's attempts and it's like he's a part of the "good ole boy's club". No harm done.
But a woman, especially the object of his current desire? Never would I humiliate a guy like that just because it can turn so dangerous.
I tried your way once, Dan, many years ago.
Once.

Geez, Dan, you need a serious education to the real world.

As it was said by more than one woman, this isn't one person's sensitivity... this is now an obvious thing where you as a man feel it necessary to tell a woman how to react.

Let me give you a little clue from someone that's taught rape prevention classes.

People are individuals. No ONE person is going to act like another. And what makes sexual advances so uncomfortable, even ultra subtle ones, is the whole range of human emotions. What one woman would laughingly dismiss, another would freeze or panic. The altered state of ANYONE's consciousness during adversity is why martial artists train, train, and then train some more... because you have to work against some people's reactions of nature!

You give advice in some areas, yet dismiss other problems discussed here as something along the lines of "oh get over it".

Dan - I'm glad you understand boundaries are necessary. It sounds like you have your own way of dealing with drunks and that is to ignore them.



I guess it was a combination of being called Karaoke chick, after being asked not to several times, and being yelled at from the audience (which I stated in my post).. I thought I was using humor to diffuse the situation. To me being yelled at from the audience for something when I obviously can't have a conversation that way is a cowardly way of trying to bully me into putting him up sooner in rotation because he thought I wouldn't respond on the mic. Trying to heckle me from the audience is not a good way to get your way. Maybe my attempt of trying to be funny about the whole situation wasn't the way you'd do it, but it was the first thing that popped into my mind. People laughed because he made himself a nuisance yelling it constantly.



I did turn away if you read my post. All I said to him was that is inappropriate. If you read what I wrote, he came back and appologized and we are friendly with each other now. It was a perfect ending to an uncomfortable start.



Let's not bend the meaning of my words to make a point. I don't mind discussing this maturely. I have never said I'd kick him out. I actually posted the opposite about the "karaoke chick" comment guy. I said he was a nuiscance, but didn't do anything to get kicked out.

As far as your statement about me over reacting to every situation because of my past. I stated this on the second post page:


I have only been grabbed a few times and when it happened I let them know it was inappropriate. I'm usually backed up by a regular that sets them straight. No one was kicked out.




With the guy who offered me $50 to unbotton a button, I simply told him it wasn't a strip club and laughed. He still comes into the bar regularly and tips me $20 to sing and I don't have to take off my clothes. He treats me respectfully. I guess I must have handled it ok.



I totally agree with this. Humor is the best way to diffuse a situation. Yep ! That guy who said "Hey karaoke chick" was embarrassed, but he didn't walk off the joke. People laughed and thought it was funny because they heard him yell it enough. I didn't kick him out. I just gave him a little of his own medicine.



I totally agree here also ! The part about being touched came from posts about boundaries. I think the 2 got mingled together some how. You treat every situation accordingly. Being called "karaoke chick" really isn't a big deal at all. I was more disappointed he left because that wasn't my intention. I was just trying to embarrass him into stopping with a joke. I never said any different.

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Babs I could call you a karaoke chick and when you see the lopsided grin and love in my eyes it wouldnt bother you a bit!!!

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Just shows no class at all by the indivual... You should have just said, "did you leave the rest of the horse outside?" Or "I've been called worse by better people"

But still no class by him....

You know it !

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