Karaoke Forums

This is a spin off of Bill H mentioning that he is trying to bring some younger people into the Elks Club karaoke.

1. Other than, "No Obscenity," do venue owners ever tell you to gear your song selection to only certain types of music? For instance, "This is a Country Bar." If you are trying to play at more than one venue, it really doesn't make sense to have too many seperate sets of books so I tend to be of the, "If they are spending money, their song will be over in 3 minutes anyway so let them sing it," school.

2. BUT... some of the old cowboys aren't too happy hearing Godsmack in "their" bar. (Sweet young things dancing to it mitigates it somewhat.) Bottom line is, when more people come in, more types of songs are sung. How do you smooth these transitions and blendings of crowds?

Other than the profanity & F bomb songs, anything goes in my current bar. I have worked some country only bars in the past & made up separate books for that bar that consisted of all country & some rock that was considered crossovers - SOuthern Rock & the likes.
I have no problems working with the clubs request, if they don't want something in THEIR club, then do it IMO! By no means i'm saying let them dictate how you run your show, but they do by all means have the right to say certain types of music isn't allowed.

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Smoothing transitions between singers. I do it with, yeah, the filler music. If I'm in a country place I use a lot of upbeat country songs between singers and let the singers sing what they want. So long as the music you choose fits the venue most folks don't get to antsy about it.

In Dallas we have the Red River shootout, University of Texas vs Oklahoma University, and the crowds we get in town are quite diverse. In my normal rock and roll bar we'll get big injection of country music singers. So long as I let the AC/DC play for a few seconds before I call up the next singer it seems folks have no problems with it. I just keep an eye on what the folks are bopping to and let it run a few seconds longer. Not a full song but more than 10 seconds worth.

This seems to work for me, no complaints and generally get compliments on it.

I've found that's the best way. It's easier to target the fill music to the age or favorite style of your crowd.

Luckily I've never gigged at a place which put restrictions on what songs are sung. Crowds tend to be self-selecting...I have many more country songs sung in my current venue because it's a country bar. But those songs have always been in my book.

I wouldn't take a gig where I had to print special books...that in itself indicates the owner is too controlling. My show is my show.

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I, too, have not had a gig in which the owner dictates music to me.
Like Dan, I wouldn't take it if they did.
The only exception might be a situation which may come up in the near future.
My son-in-Law-to-be is the pastor's son of a local church. They have a youth/young adult group every week with varying activities. The group is rapidly growing. If they wish to have karaoke (likely because SIL LOVES karaoke) on a regular basis, I would consider printing books with the off color songs deleted. But ONLY as a personal favour.
I wouldn't do it for anyone else.
Just because.

The owner of a venue runs his/her business, I run mine- period.. On the other hand, I try to make sure that my music IS appropriate to the venue.

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But you are hired by the owner, they have the right to request what goes in THEIR bar.

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Certainly there are owners who insist on getting too involved in dictating how a karaoke show is done. I think perhaps a lot of them have been stung and perhaps are trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. The smart owners allow the host they hire (provided they have found a great host) to determine the best way to run the show in their establishment, including things like disallowing x-rated, using transition music, how to work the rotation, etc., etc.

There has to be a certain amount of cooperation between owner and host, though...and a level of trust extended by the owner to the host. I can't think of anything that would bring out the 6-year-old in me quicker than an owner dictating exactly what kind of songs I could or couldn't play. Thankfully I've never had to deal with that.

As far as modifying books for certain groups - particularly a youth group type of gathering, that would certainly be a labor of love on your part, Diafel - I'm sure those kids wouldn't sing inappropriate songs but dollars to donuts they've heard the songs you'd be deleting from the book. I'm always amazed at the level of familiarity even young kids have with off-colored music.

For the few gigs that I have hosted over the years, I have never been told what type of music is acceptable or unacceptable to use at my show. I would never work in a place that would dictate that. I don't believe in censorship for any song that's out there on a CDG. Of course, I would use some common sense depending on the situation.... like, if I were to see children around, I wouldn't let someone sing something like "Blow Me, You Hardly Even Know Me."

Even if you go to a strictly country bar? I don't see the need to turn down any gig that wants strictly what fits in their bar.
Like I said it only happened in one bar I worked, plus I do special books for kids shows taking out anything with swearing or suggestive lyrics - don't matter if they have heard it or not.

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Since I have never gone looking for a gig at a bar or club that is specifically themed for certain types of music, your question does not really apply to me. As I said before, I have only done a handful of gigs over the years. I am not actively looking for a gig because my regular work schedule makes it extremely difficult for me to do something on a regular basis. I'm not complaining about that... I'm perfectly happy with the way things are for me.

I'm not a KJ, just a singer, but if I were to go out looking for gigs; I certainly would let the owner of the bar hiring me to dictate what kind of music he would prefer. However, if someone came in with their own CDG disc, I would let them sing whatever they wanted and let the owner deal with it. Some bar owner may decide that he doesn't want any Hip Hop music or Rap music to be sung at his business establishment. Who am I, as an employee, to disrespect his wishes? If I were the bartender and the owner gave me a bunch of money for the jukebox but told me NOT to play any Hip Hop or Rap music, I'd be a fool to play any Rap or Hip Hop music. If a paying customer wants to hear it, who can stop him? The bar owner should just tell the jukebox company not to put any Hip Hop or Rap music in the machine. If someone came up to me and asked to sing a song that was on the "do not perform" list, I would direct that person to the bar owner for an explanation. I wouldn't print up special books. I would just tell people when they handed me a slip that the owner doesn't allow certain types of music to be sung and if they could get the owner to OK their song choice I would happily play it for them.

If it was a long lasting gig you would. I have been at the same bar for 15 years & it got a little tiresome trying to explain to people & sending them to the owner after the first couple years WHY certain songs were not allowed. Get rid of them out of the books and there are no problems.
However that opened my eyes & any gig I got after that I worked with the bar - not against it. It is THEIR bar, not mine. They are paying me to do a job, but it should still be in accordance to their format if they wish.

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The bar owners do, of course, have the right to determine the type of music they want in their bar, as well as how rotations are run, how the host dresses, whether or not there is fill music, etc. You also have the right to not work there if the owner's rules don't suit you. It really would boil down to: how bad do you want/need the gig?

I myself have no problem with a "no profanity" rule, but I wouldn't work at a place that refuses to allow certain genres of music out of hand. I would remind the owner that it's not ME choosing the songs, but their customers. However, I might have a completely different attitude if I really needed the gig.

As far as being an "employee", I am not. I am contracted to do a specific job. Employees expect to be told what to do. I expect to be allowed to do my job with limited interference.

Please, let's not split hairs here? Whether you are an hourly employee or a "private contractor" your continued "EMPLOYMENT" at a particular venue is based on making the "EMPLOYER" happy. For most people, bar owners don't seem to be banging on their doors to hire them at top dollar prices so if you have a good gig, you might as well try to keep it. These are some tough financial times for a lot of people so I think it would be wiser to make the "BOSS" happy.

I think you said it all right there. The owners/Managers DO have the right to dictate what you play, and how to run your show, and it is your right to say that you will not compromise how you run a show.

I've been in that position once... The managers of one place asked me to play dance music at Midnight for 20 minutes or so (for the non-singing regulars). I told them that I would not do that as long as I had people there waiting to sing (which I did... more than 10 people waiting for their turn/s). We discussed it the next day, and I told them that this is how I run my show (YES! I use the term MY SHOW... they hired me for my services which I laid out for them in the very beginning). I told them that if they didn't like the way I ran the show, they could hire someone else. I made it very clear to them that I was not desperate or dependent on this job. Two months later, they did replace me with someone else who was willing to give them Dance Music breaks, and I had no problem with that. I don't make it a habit of going to shows that do Musical/Dance breaks when it's advertised as a Karaoke show, and therefore, I do not offer that at my show (unless I have nobody waiting/wanting to sing).

I applaud you for your karaoke integrity, Cueball. I wish more KJ's would refuse to play that dance set for the few people that are afraid to sing but want to take over karaoke night and turn it into disco night. I can't imagine a karaoke singer walking up to a DJ at a dance club and insisting on singing for twenty minutes and getting away with it. If I wanted to watch a football game, I wouldn't go to a tennis match and insist that the tennis players start tackling each other. I would go to a FOOTBALL game.

Bruce, I love your football - tennis comparison, very good.
Although I do have a separate set of books for events involving kids (school events). When it comes to bar gigs, I do try to work with the owner. I discuss all these points up front before accepting the gig. Sort of interviewing the person if you will.
In a bar setting I do run a more adult oriented type of show, and do have all the songs with profanity, but I do not allow them to be sung before 11 p.m.
As far as genre goes I let the crowd dictate that. As a DJ as well as karaoke host, I have several playlists set up by genre of non karaoke music, I use this to start the night while making intros, waiting for song slips etc. In a new venue I try to read the crowd to determine what genre to use, I always check the jukebox, or if it's playing while I'm setting up, or I do ask the owner what they like, but I feel that if it's a bar, and people are coming in, and spending their money, they should be able to listen to, and sing what they want. It's not about what I like or what the owner likes, but what the people spending their money like.
While I am not an employee of any venue, and technically the owner is not my boss, I think the customers are the boss, because in a roundabout way they are the ones paying me to be there.

I do some fill in work at a local pub every now and then. To say that this pub is a country bar would probably not do it justice. Even though a lot of the men that come in seem to be bib overalls. Recently the service that the owner uses to update his music loaded him up with a lot of rock songs. When I first saw the new pages I thought to myself, "these is no way this will ever get sung in this pub", especially since the average age of the patrons is probably about 35-40.

Imagine my shock this past weekend when several of those songs were done. Nickelback, Alice In Chains, and Incubus, just to name a few. They received a great reaction out of the crowd.

Now imagine if the owner, who comes in most of the time in his own bib overalls, had told the service that he had a country bar and didn't want those songs in his bar. He would have missed out on a new set of customers.

While it is his right to do so, at least he had the foresight to realize that it might just bring in more business for him. I salute him for putting his personal music favorites to the side and allowing a more diverse set of songs to be sung.

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Mongo ain't exactly a "who," he's more of a "what".

I think "one" major point is being missed in this thread, OR, it isn't being put across DIRECTLY ENOUGH. So I'll try to sum it up like this, If you are in SOMEONE ELSE'S PLACE, be it their BAR, HOME, or WHEREVER, you MUST go by THEIR rules. Just because you are the "PROFESSIONAL KJ", doesn't give you the right to DISRESPECT your HOST. YES,I SAID "HOST". Let me explain what I mean, as I kmow some of you are already "gnawing at the bit" to get to me. You as the kj, have a RESPONSIBILITY to the OWNER of the establishment to RESPECT both him, and his PATRONS, GUESTS, WHOMEVER. YOU, (might have) a FOLLOWING from a DIFFERENT VENUE, and, at THAT VENUE, the "SINGERS" are a bunch of LITTLE "FOUL MOUTHED JERKS", who just LOOK in your songbooks to find ANY SONG, that has SOME KIND of "filthy" unexceptable lyric. It doesn't have to be just SWEAR WORDS, but it could be SUGGESTIVE CONTENT, or WHATEVER. Which is ok to be sung at THE VENUE THAT THEY ARE "REGULARS". (BUT), Now they come to YOUR (OTHER) venue, where the croud is more mature, and they are INSULTED by these (SONGS). Just because you have those songs in your songbook, doesn't mean you have to let them sing it at THIS VENUE. And the OWNER shouldn't have to be the SCAPEGOAT for a "PROFESSIONAL KJ" who doesn't have the nerve to tell the "SINGER" that he CAN'T sing a certain song at THIS PARTICULAR VENUE.
You MIGHT just tell (him or her) to come to YOUR OTHER VENUE if they want to sing it. BOTTOM LINE, "WHEN IN ROME, DO AS THE ROMANS DO". Because at the venue, there is but one CAESAR, and that's the person who SIGNS YOUR CHECK. If you don't like it, you only have two choices, GET OVER IT, or pack up your s***, and GET OUT.
"THAT" decision IS completely up to YOU.

My 2 cents.

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