Karaoke Forums

Before I begin, I'm asking these questions fully understanding how this device operates sonically (by utilizing phase cancelation), and that it only works with a handful of tracks (those with vocals, reverb and delay dead center and instrumentation panned in high degrees left and right).

Also, I'm not a KJ but I figured this might be the most likely place to find someone with extensive experience with this device.

I currently own a Thompson Vocal Eliminator VE-2+ manufactured in 1986 and have a few questions about the Alesis unit that any owner should be able to answer for me:

1) On my VE-2+, unless the power switch is pressed, audio passes through untouched, with no cancelation or effects as if the unit were not even in the chain. Since I have my VE-2+ between my DJ mixer and my mixing board I need a quick and easy way to defeat it. The Alesis unit doesn't seem to have anything as simple as this, am I correct? I understand that the effect can be defeated, but the master volume control on the unit remains active, is that correct? I'm asking because I do not want three master volume controls (my DJ mixer, vocal zapper, and mixing board) in the chain. With the VE-2+ that's not a concern; when it is off, it's completely out of the chain.

2) My Thompson unit is completely analog while the Alesis unit is digital. Since the Alesis unit is digital, is there any processing lag between the input and output? If so how much? Is all sound, even with the effect defeated, being routed through an A/D, D/A converter?

3) The VE-2+ has some neat controls to fine tune cancelation. You have one main cancelation control, one for symbience, tone and amplification controls, a noise reduction control, and a pseudo-stereo effect control. How does the Alesis unit's presets compare to this in versatility? If you've used a Thompson unit, how does it compare overall?

I bought my VE-2+ second hand and when I received the unit it was not working properly. I opened it up and saw a chip not seated quite right, pushed it down, and everything has been fine since. Still, I'm dealing with vintage equipment and if a modern (inexpensive) alternative of equal quality exists I'm interested. Thompson makes a newer model (for $1800 -- insane for a device that does nothing not much more than phase inversion!) so that's obviously not a option.

Before you recommend software solutions, let me explain what I use this for. I listen to a lot of 60s and 70s records that phase cancelation can work pretty well with. Sometimes I just like to play a track front to back, in real time and listen to it while adjusting the VE-2+'s effects. If I find something that works right, I sample it into my MPC, chop it, and have some fun. Once you play around with filters on the unprocessed signal and put them on top of the VE-2+'s sample you can get some nice results. I work primarily on hardware, and only use my computer for recording -- so I'm not interested in any software possibilities (they wouldn't go well with my workflow).

First off, ALL vocal eliminators work on the same principle. They look for the same frequency patterns (center panned such as vocals in many recordings) in both channels & cancels them out. While this is simple enough it seems, it also often includes many instruments - especially bass guitar, kick drum, snare drum, sometimes keyboard, lead guitars among others - leaving a ghost track of vocal effects that are usually panned off center. When the vocal eliminator is engaged, it will also kill those instruments. Some of the hardware (and software) will come equipped with some eq'ing features that will help aid in restoring those instruments - sometimes at the cost of bringing back the vocal frequencies as well.
I have heard some of the demo's even the Thompson eliminator sends out and they will always send out the demos that work the best. 1 that was also included was one that took out some instruments & you could strongly tell when they engaged & disengaged the unit to make it work.
Any mono recording - especially those of the 50's & 60's will not work in any manner since all the frequencies on both channels will always remain the same.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Emm, yeah. Did you even read what I wrote before posting that?

Basically what I was getting at is the Alesis isn't going to be much, if any, better than the Thompson you currently own.
While I don't own one, I have played with one & the Alesis does as good of a job as my MTU software - which is actually pretty good for a software based system.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I'm more concerned about points 1 and 2.

bedouin,

Save yourself from the Headache and listen to lonman!

sw00000p

Thouigh I agree with Lonman that it's a waste of money because you're not really upgrading, I will answer 1 & 2:

1) The Alesis is not equipped with an automatic bypass. Therefore, if you want to defeat it, you will have to add a bypass line yourself. In other words, split the input so one line goes to the Alesis, and the other bypasses it.


2) While there may be a a miniscule delay, it shouldn't be noticeable IF the quality of components ( I.E. chip speed specs) are up to snuff in that particular unit. I'm not familiar with it, but the specs may be available from the Mfr. site.


Hope that's what you're looking for......

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."