Karaoke Forums

It sometimes takes awhile before certain points crystallize in my mind. And it has finally become clear to me that not only are there two types of Singers (See "Karaoke Thread" with poll for type "A" vs "B" singers), but there are probably, in general terms, two different types of KJ's.

One type of KJ is fixated on attracting good singers and uses that criterion as the benchmark for determining his/her success. To accomplish that, they insist that they must have the best of everything and refer to anything less as "Junk" and/or "garbage". Meanwhile, I don't believe any KJ here has, in fact, the best of everything!

The other type of KJ is fixated on "entertaining" the entire venue and trying to maximize the fun experienced by all. This type of KJ is a little more tolerant of using gear and discs that are often rated as "junk' or "garbage" by the other type.

As I stated in a recent post regarding the SGB collection, it appears that the people who are quick to rate something as "junk" or garbage" deem themselves to be the arbiter of what is "no good", "acceptable", "okay", "good", "very good", or "excellent". If you say something is "good" and they say it is "junk", you're wrong!

Now, as a singer, if I like a track manufactured by SGB, and you tell me it's "junk", I finally feel compelled to ask the following:
ARE YOU DENIGRATING MY TASTE AS A KJ, OR AS A MUSICIAN, OR AS A SINGER, OR AS AN AFFECIANADO OF MUSIC, OR AS A HUMAN BEING?

How many of you own and drive a Mercedes? Well, how would you like me to tell you that intelligent drivers only purchase Mercedes and anything else is "junk".

Now, back to the main point. If you rate your show by how many good singers you have.... and you feel you can only attract good singers with the equipment you have, remember that there are many shows in this country that are attracting good singers with lesser equipment and some are using what you might consider to be "junk". And I invite any of you who doubt this statement to personally share with me what I am describing if you're visiting here in S Florida. I believe that Mcky57 can attest to what I say based upon his experiences here!

If you rate your show based upon how many people are having "fun", then you have focused on attracting and keeping people coming who are enjoying themselves. I have never stopped attending a place because its karaoke collection is 80% Music Maestro. I have never stopped attending a show because it uses a Fender Passport. I have never stopped going to a show because there were too many "poor" singers there!

I have stopped going places where I wasn't having fun, or the rotation was screwed up! One show I went to for quite awhile was remunerated on tips and used a Singing Machine unit as a player. But we had fun!

I'm sorry for knocking SGB, as far as I'm concerned, it's all good. I was being sarcastic, or maybe over critical....again, and I'm sincere, it's all good. Now as far as attracting good singers, it is much better to attract females, when it comes to making money......jmho.....

You know, I can't honestly say why we attract incredibly good singers - probably a combination of having what they want to sing and the quality of our sound reproduction. In any case, I have never intentionally set out to ONLY attract good singers; in fact, I probably try harder to attract newbies. It's just nice that when a person does this as long as we have that the good singers are very appreciative, and it makes it infinitely easier on our ears, too! I certainly never suggest to a patron that the music they are bringing me is crap. I don't think I've ever spoken aloud any opinion about manufacturers, other than when asked by a singer who wishes to sing the version closest to the original, in which case I am happy to oblige them.

I just do my job to the best of my ability with the best equipment I can afford, buy the music people want, and treat everyone as if they are the only person in the world that matters at that moment. Seems to work great so far.

I kind of like the combination of a well run show where the priority is FUN, PLUS quality in the host and equipment. I like the idea of having all versions available in the book for the SINGERS to choose the "best" version.

I guess that's why I usually end up with a good crowd, but a true mix of good AND less talented singers. I believe that stressing the "fun" aspect helps to make the less talented singers more comfortable, making for a happier and LARGER customer base.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

To me, the success of a show is if the place is filled and if they repeatedly come back and the venue owner invites me back.
THAT is success. If I happen to have good singers and everyone has fun at the same time, then great!
There is no set "type" of KJ, just as there is no set "type" of singer.
Why try to pidgeonhole everyone?
Are you that fixated on a label?
We are people doing our jobs and /or having fun.
Human people!
That, in and of itself, precludes categorization.

Ericlater, I don't know how this is possible, but my thread on forget about being a kj, ALMOST completely coincides with your post. Only, I'm ASKING which show people would rather attend. Good post.

Rosario

I ditto this almost verbatim. Just because a singer brings in a disc that is less than average, I wouldn't tell them that it is crap either.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Diafel

I probably should have used the term "focused" rather than "fixated"

A I am NOT about labeling, I am just asking questions that have come to mind after experiencing various opinions on this forum over the last two years.

For one, I am taking issue with those who think theirs is the only valid opinion regarding what is an acceptable level of quality for a karaoke show. I say let the audience vote on that with their wallets!

I am taking issue with those who believe that having "good" singers at their show is a reflection upon their choice of the equipment and related material that they have purchased. More likely, it's a reflection upon their personality and skills!

I am taking issue with those who believe that anyone who accepts lesser quality equipment than they accept is on a course for failure --- Not so!

I am taking issue with those who denigrate the opinions of another KJ, forgetting that most of us KJ's were singers long before we hosted our first show. And, as singers, we are/were the people every KJ wants to accommodate and satisfy! IN short, I know the elements that make up a good karaoke show for my enjoyment!

So, if someone wouldn't go to a show that has, or doesn't have, a particular type of equipment, ask yourself how many other people are attending that very same show? And what about the opinion of the KJ who uses that "undesirable" equipment? I guess he uses it in spite of the fact that no one likes it other than himself?

Ericlater, I assume since this is what I posted above that you are referring to my comments:

I am taking issue with those who believe that having "good" singers at their show is a reflection upon their choice of the equipment and related material that they have purchased. More likely, it's a reflection upon their personality and skills!


Imagine if I got on here and said, "You know, people are so amazed by my bubbly, engaging personality and how well I mix for them -- that's why I have great singers coming to my show. Heck, that's why I have had followers who have come to my shows since 1997."

I can say unabashadly that having done public relations for years, I am adept at making everyone feel comfortable, making them feel that they're totally accepted, and that no matter what their level of performance I appreciate their presence. So yes, you are quite correct in your assumption that it is directly related to personality and skills as well...but I think I summed that up in my last sentence, which is that I do everything in my power to make everyone feel very, very special at my show. Frankly, it's so horribly embarrassing for me to even read this, even though it was done in jest....

You can be as bubbly, cute, personable, and likable as you want to be. If the sound is crap, my bet is you won't get good singers. Where I live, good singers tend to follow good equipment. They are almost never found as regulars at shows with bad equipment.

We have three shows in Cincinnati (and no doubt more) where the singers are significantly better than average. The equipment at those shows is significantly better than average around here. (Yorkville, EV, Peavey SP5 speakers, separate amps, effects processors, compression, monitor speakers, Shure/Sennheiser mics).

I know of zero shows with bad equipment that have regular good singers. I have been to about 200 different karaoke shows all over, and can think of one or two cases where I saw more than one good singer at shows with crappy sound. I can think of many that had multiple good singers where the sound was professional level.

I do tend to see a funny coincidence --- good hosts tend to have good equipment. So you could see some correlation of good host to good singer. But I think you need good gear too.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

The secret to KJ'ing is this.....shhhh

You have to learn to adapt to your enviroment. I doubt any KJ started a new show with the idea of only having GOOD SINGERS although there show might evolve to that. I've hosted shows where the GOOD singers flocked ...not only where they good singers ..they were the local Karaoke GODS.....You know the ones they attended 4 or 5 shows a week all over the area ( not just 1 town but up and down the state) ....... Then other shows where singing was secondary to having fun.
I learned to adapt my style of KJing to the venue and the people. AND THE REAL SECRET IS THIS ...... IT MAY CHANGE FROM WEEK TO WEEK AT THE SAME VENUE

What good is it to have the best singers in the world if no one is having a good time?

Karaoke is supposed to be about having fun. At least it is for me.

Good singers *are* typically fun. We have a great time at the two shows we go to that have much better than average singers. The audiences are great, everyone is friendly, and the singers are entertaining.

Perhaps you find dull and lifeless fun? Or is it frenetic and overbearing? Or is it the fortieth week in a row when that special bad singer sounds like a baying hound doing "Release Me"?

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

When people get up and are laughing and having a good time, it makes other people want to get up and do it themselves. The more people participating, the better.

This post further helps to support why I started this thread! Why do I say that? Because....

1) Where is it written that you need good singers to have a good time at karaoke?

2) Where is it written that you must have good singers in order to have a good karaoke show?

3) Where is it written that good singers know more about sound equipment, karaoke equipment, karaoke discs and the like than bad singers?

4) Where is it written that good singers, by definition, always have fun singing with other good singers?

5) Where is it written because things are a certain way in one locale, that they are the same all over?

My experience is completely unlike what the above poster has suggested is their experience!

If nothing else, for example, I've posted several dozen times over the years that the person with as much experience as anyone else in S Florida and who has the best equipment around has virtually no following and I avoid his show. Furthermore, I've also noted that there are KJ's with lesser quality gear who attract many good singers! I am willing to take any visitor to various shows to prove my point. However.... because this is the reality in a metropolitan area that offers so much diverse entertainment, doesn't mean it's the same for a burb that offers little more in the way of entertainment than "good singers" at a karaoke show!

And let's not forget... there are actually "Type A" and "Type B" singers. And if someone understands that they are a "Type B", why do they foist their opinions on those who don't make the same demands of a Karaoke show as they do?

Yes, Virginia, it is only karaoke. What does that mean? Sometimes there are people in attendance who have never done karaoke before. Sometimes there are people in attendance who are there by accident (they came for dinner, found out there is karaoke and stayed), sometimes there are people in attendance who don't know one disc manufacturer from another (I didn't for years). Sometimes there are people in attendance who just chose to go to karaoke that day "on a lark", or were "dragged" out by some friends.

Lastly, after having done live band karaoke last year, I find that there is no other karaoke experience that can come close to it. So why don't the rest of us just close up our KJ shows since we can't compete with the live band experience?

To heck with "good" singers.
I could care less how well they sing.
What I'm interested in is good spenders. If they happen to come in and sing terribly, but spend their money at my venue, thereby making my venue owner happy, then I'm all for it!
If they have a good time singing, no matter how well or how bad they are, and want to return, then that's all I care about.
Bring on the crappy singers!

Bravo, Diafel:

It can't be put more succinctly or more accurately than expressed by you!. Give me one good spender who can't sing a lick, over 5 divas who slurp water all night because alcohol will "destroy" their vocals!

Karen

Don't be humble. People come to your show because of you. I never went to a show because of the equipment and I never returned to a show where I didn't like the KJ, regardless of the equipment and/or library of songs!

As I just posted and have said many times in the past, the most well equipped show in the area is intentionally avoided by many because of the the KJ.

I have no doubt, as I mentioned in a post sometime last Fall, people go to a Karaoke show because of some "X" factor and it is usually the KJ who is responsible for providing/creating that "X"!

Take credit for what YOU DO! Not the equipment or discs you have selected!

I have to disagree with your post here.... not so much about what you said, but how you relayed it. Define "Good Equipment" vs "Bad Equipment." I don't think it's necessarily the equipment that the KJ uses, but how they use it that makes a BIG DIFFERENCE in whether I might return to their show in the future.


I have been to many shows with equipment that you would probably label as sub par (based on what I have quoted from what you listed above). I have seen many KJs use (what I will refer to as) standard issue equipment --- Standard issue being 2 speakers (not home stereo speakers) and the VocoPro 7000 (I think that's the model) as their amp/mixer. The problem that I have seen (in some cases), is that the KJ doesn't know how to operate his/her equipment correctly. I have seen some KJs who have low-end equipment, and they get great sound out of it, and then, I have seen other KJs with top notch equipment, and they get too much feedback, or their sound is too tinny or muffled, etc...

When I go out to a show, the draw for me isn't what kind of equipment the KJ is using. It's several things factored together.... Can I (and the other singers) be heard clearly when performing? Is the place crowded or practically empty? Is the Audience supportive (do they applaud for everyone, or just their own clique)? Is the place reasonably priced? Do they give buy-backs (this is a NY thing)?

IMHO, Who gives a crap about good singers?

No matter how good we are as hosts, or what the music selection, or the equipment (I'd say 9 of 10 guests here dont know the equip anyhow). Bottom line is you're guests have fun, they #1 spend money all night, and #2 come back again.

It just came to my mind tonight watching American Idol, they have 100,000 or so mediocre to awful singers, and maybe 125 good singers go to Hollywood. I'm just playing the odds, but I'll cater to my awful ones. I bet it keeps your bar owner happy.

FUN, FUN, FUN, FUN, FUN!

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