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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:09 am wrote:
The power rating on it is pretty low, it actually only pushes 150 watts into 8 ohms. The 500 watts is PEAK into 4 ohms. Other than that it's a great little mixer/amp.
As far as effects, yes it has them - digital multi effects, key change is usually done through the software or player. Not needed on a mixer for karaoke.


I'm letting my ignorance show (but working to overcome it). I have to remember to read all the specs before accepting things. I'm fortunate to have a friend who vets all my equipment but using Lonman might just suffice were he not around :)


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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Wow, now maybe I should just have the old Mackie serviced for the long haul. I'm still going to look at the new one but with a closer eye. I like mixer/amps, so that will be what I'm looking at. Are there other US made Mixer/amps out there that I should look at? Trying to keep this under $700.


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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:19 pm wrote:
Sevarin @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:57 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:09 am wrote:
The power rating on it is pretty low, it actually only pushes 150 watts into 8 ohms. The 500 watts is PEAK into 4 ohms. Other than that it's a great little mixer/amp.
As far as effects, yes it has them - digital multi effects, key change is usually done through the software or player. Not needed on a mixer for karaoke.
Lonnie, where did you get that information? I try to get the same kind of information for the bigger Mackie Mixer PPM1008. Sorry for hijacking...

Just go to Mackie, click on your mixer & the specs. It should also be in your manual under the specs section.
http://www.mackie.com/products/ppm1008/ ... _specs.pdf

The 1008 pushes about 250 watts per channel into 8 ohms, & 400 watts into 4 ohms.

One of the specs refers to Speed which is listed in knots...WTF? Excuse my newbness, but what does that refer to.


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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:34 pm 
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If weight is the issue why don't you give the Yamaha EMX512SC a look. It appears to be what Mackie has modeled their PPM608 after. You get the Yamaha quality and comes in at only 22 lbs. It's also rated @ 350 watts per side @ 8 ohms. The only thing I see is the Mackie might have some more patching options but if that isn't a major issue for your application I would think it would be a good choice. I use it's baby brother (EMX212) as a keyboard mixer and it is a little monster and less than half the weight of the the mixer head it replaced.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... B&ZYXSEM=0

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Quote:
One of the specs refers to Speed which is listed in knots...WTF? Excuse my newbness, but what does that refer to.


I think it's suppose to be a joke. I have seen little attempts at humor in prior Mackie publications.

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:58 pm 
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Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:10 pm wrote:
JoeChartreuse @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:48 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:09 am wrote:
The power rating on it is pretty low, it actually only pushes 150 watts into 8 ohms.
As far as effects, yes it has them - digital multi effects, key change is usually done through the software or player. Not needed on a mixer for karaoke.



First, good catch on the power rating. I completely missed it. :oops:


Although many CDG players now carry onboard effects, they don't carry all of them. Keychange is on music ONLY, for example. Echo and delay work only if one runs the mics through the player (not gonna happen- direct to mixer). A good karaoke mixer SHOULD have everything you need ( although PC shows CAN mix with software). This doesn't mean that mixers without effects are bad, just means that you should add a separate board for full control.


Completely disagree. I have never needed a mixer that had to have key change ability. Since music is all you will be changing, there is no need to change mic key - it would be impossible to sing. Most cdg players & karaoke software today have a key change ability of some sort built in. I MIX with my mixer not software. Why would I need a separate mixer with effects that I don't care for? I use an outboard Lexicon & Alesis effects processor, but have used the internal on my Mackie CFX12 and they are fine. I see no need for a separate mixer on top of another mixer.


First, on board effects on most players bite. Second, it is my semi-humble opinion that vocals (for karaoke) should be as well mixed as the music. This is a bit of a hijack because he just posted ( a bit late) that it's for straight DJ work, so the mixer is fine, but, as you caught, the amp is under powered.

As for vocal keychange- a tip for any interested in trying it: Use it to bring a less talented singer on key without their knowing it ( a must, because if you tell them they will, for some reason, alter their singing).

The result will be that they sound a helluva lot better. They won't know why, only that they sound best at YOUR show. THAT'S why I have vocal keychange and separate mic EQ

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:58 am 
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lordairgtar @ Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:15 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:19 pm wrote:
Sevarin @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:57 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:09 am wrote:
The power rating on it is pretty low, it actually only pushes 150 watts into 8 ohms. The 500 watts is PEAK into 4 ohms. Other than that it's a great little mixer/amp.
As far as effects, yes it has them - digital multi effects, key change is usually done through the software or player. Not needed on a mixer for karaoke.
Lonnie, where did you get that information? I try to get the same kind of information for the bigger Mackie Mixer PPM1008. Sorry for hijacking...

Just go to Mackie, click on your mixer & the specs. It should also be in your manual under the specs section.
http://www.mackie.com/products/ppm1008/ ... _specs.pdf

The 1008 pushes about 250 watts per channel into 8 ohms, & 400 watts into 4 ohms.

One of the specs refers to Speed which is listed in knots...WTF? Excuse my newbness, but what does that refer to.


Mackie tries to teach in their manuals with a little fun rather than being completely technical that is really boring if you don't know. SO their knots is just poking fun for watts. Since knots is a speed reference they are just making it a fun reference for high watts with fast knots.

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:05 pm 
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JoeChartreuse @ Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:58 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:10 pm wrote:
JoeChartreuse @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:48 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:09 am wrote:
The power rating on it is pretty low, it actually only pushes 150 watts into 8 ohms.
As far as effects, yes it has them - digital multi effects, key change is usually done through the software or player. Not needed on a mixer for karaoke.



First, good catch on the power rating. I completely missed it. :oops:


Although many CDG players now carry onboard effects, they don't carry all of them. Keychange is on music ONLY, for example. Echo and delay work only if one runs the mics through the player (not gonna happen- direct to mixer). A good karaoke mixer SHOULD have everything you need ( although PC shows CAN mix with software). This doesn't mean that mixers without effects are bad, just means that you should add a separate board for full control.


Completely disagree. I have never needed a mixer that had to have key change ability. Since music is all you will be changing, there is no need to change mic key - it would be impossible to sing. Most cdg players & karaoke software today have a key change ability of some sort built in. I MIX with my mixer not software. Why would I need a separate mixer with effects that I don't care for? I use an outboard Lexicon & Alesis effects processor, but have used the internal on my Mackie CFX12 and they are fine. I see no need for a separate mixer on top of another mixer.


First, on board effects on most players bite.

Who mentioned anything about effects on players? The effects are built into the mixer - which are MUCH better than any player could hope to achieve.
Quote:
Second, it is my semi-humble opinion that vocals (for karaoke) should be as well mixed as the music.

Yes I would agree here as well, but again, this is done with the mixer. Not following you here????

Quote:
As for vocal keychange- a tip for any interested in trying it: Use it to bring a less talented singer on key without their knowing it ( a must, because if you tell them they will, for some reason, alter their singing).

The result will be that they sound a helluva lot better. They won't know why, only that they sound best at YOUR show. THAT'S why I have vocal keychange and separate mic EQ

Vocal keychange?? Explain?? Even 'karaoke mixers' do not have vocal key changers. Are you talking about an external vocal harmonizer processor? Or are you talking about key changing the music up/down to fit a voice better?

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:29 pm 
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LondonLive @ Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:34 pm wrote:
If weight is the issue why don't you give the Yamaha EMX512SC a look. It appears to be what Mackie has modeled their PPM608 after. You get the Yamaha quality and comes in at only 22 lbs. It's also rated @ 350 watts per side @ 8 ohms. The only thing I see is the Mackie might have some more patching options but if that isn't a major issue for your application I would think it would be a good choice. I use it's baby brother (EMX212) as a keyboard mixer and it is a little monster and less than half the weight of the the mixer head it replaced.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... B&ZYXSEM=0

I'm going to look at that one. Looks like the Mackie, so I'd be comfortable with it. Do you find the quality good on your EMX212?


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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:38 pm 
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lordairgtar @ Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:29 pm wrote:
LondonLive @ Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:34 pm wrote:
If weight is the issue why don't you give the Yamaha EMX512SC a look. It appears to be what Mackie has modeled their PPM608 after. You get the Yamaha quality and comes in at only 22 lbs. It's also rated @ 350 watts per side @ 8 ohms. The only thing I see is the Mackie might have some more patching options but if that isn't a major issue for your application I would think it would be a good choice. I use it's baby brother (EMX212) as a keyboard mixer and it is a little monster and less than half the weight of the the mixer head it replaced.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... B&ZYXSEM=0

I'm going to look at that one. Looks like the Mackie, so I'd be comfortable with it. Do you find the quality good on your EMX212?


I find the quality excellent on any of the Yamaha products I've owned over the years. They have been building the EMX line for at least 25 years now, I wouldn't hesitate on trusting one without a backup. I'm not sure how much power you are looking for. They make three EMX mixer heads, the 212, the 312sc and the 512sc, but with the small price difference between the 312sc and the 512sc I would think the 512sc is the way to go.

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:47 pm 
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LondonLive @ Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:39 am wrote:
Quote:
One of the specs refers to Speed which is listed in knots...WTF? Excuse my newbness, but what does that refer to.


I think it's suppose to be a joke. I have seen little attempts at humor in prior Mackie publications.


I'd say London is right...the manual for my Mackie mixer is pretty comical in places. If you appreciate a dry/sarcastic sense of humor and don't take things too seriously!! :)


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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:59 pm 
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I second the Yamaha 512 - Just picked it up a little while ago and love it
Has enough power - its light weight - built in effects an compressor
All I need at the current time !


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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:13 am 
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I have an older Yamaha Emx66m,bought it as a set with the Br15 speakers,it is way loud.I've had it for 6 years.Never had a problem with it.
I have been considering going non powered with a whole new system but mine sounds pretty good so i just sit on the fence. :mrgreen:
I'd like to see about getting some outboard hardware like compressor,monitor but unfortunately my experience is limited and i wouldn't have a clue what to look for! :rotflmao:


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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:56 am 
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fromadistance @ Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:13 am wrote:
I have an older Yamaha Emx66m,bought it as a set with the Br15 speakers,it is way loud.I've had it for 6 years.Never had a problem with it.
I have been considering going non powered with a whole new system but mine sounds pretty good so i just sit on the fence. :mrgreen:
I'd like to see about getting some outboard hardware like compressor,monitor but unfortunately my experience is limited and i wouldn't have a clue what to look for! :rotflmao:


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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:06 am 
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The 808 in this area is to the karaoke industry as the Marlin 30/30 lever action is to hunting. I know at least 2 that have been in service for 8 years. I have shopped out a couple of them (refurbished) The parts are replaceable by generic parts available locally . Even if class B or C parts are used, one could restore to the original quality.


For further info I would consult with the engineers on the Mackie forum or call Mackie tech support. Last time I used it Loud had kept Mackies traits as far as quality control and free phone tech support.


Google Mackie 808 0n Ebay..The cheapest used one I can find is $679...

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:12 pm 
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[quote="Lonman @ Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:05 pm]. Most cdg players & karaoke software today have a key change ability of some sort built in.


Who mentioned anything about effects on players? [/quote]

Um, you did. See top.

Quote:
As for vocal keychange- a tip for any interested in trying it: Use it to bring a less talented singer on key without their knowing it ( a must, because if you tell them they will, for some reason, alter their singing).

The result will be that they sound a helluva lot better. They won't know why, only that they sound best at YOUR show. THAT'S why I have vocal keychange and separate mic EQ

Vocal keychange?? Explain?? Even 'karaoke mixers' do not have vocal key changers. Are you talking about an external vocal harmonizer processor? Or are you talking about key changing the music up/down to fit a voice better?[/quote]


I have incorporated a second mini-board into my mixer that can do anything the mixer does to music for the vocals, including digital keychange and pitch.

In other words, instead of changing the music after a song starts, I can also bring the singer in tighter by mixing the vocal input from the mic. I can change SINGER'S key or pitch.

This would normally never have to be done with a regular. You already KNOW where they sing and adjust and mix the music accordingly. MOST of the time. This technique is mainly for singers new to the show who get caught.

The thing is, I've found that when singers KNOW of an adjustment, they end up trying to compensate for some reason, usually only getting worse. So I just work behind scenes.

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:20 pm 
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JoeChartreuse @ Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:12 pm wrote:
[quote="Lonman @ Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:05 pm]. Most cdg players & karaoke software today have a key change ability of some sort built in.


Who mentioned anything about effects on players? [/quote]

Um, you did. See top.[/quote]

Um, sorry, read again. I never said anything about effects on the player. I said the mixer had effects - digital multi effects. I'm sorry the puncuation wasn't correct, the comma was supposed to mean that key change is usually done on the software or player.
As far as effects, yes it has them - digital multi effects, key change is usually done through the software or player.

[quote][quote] As for vocal keychange- a tip for any interested in trying it: Use it to bring a less talented singer on key without their knowing it ( a must, because if you tell them they will, for some reason, alter their singing).

The result will be that they sound a helluva lot better. They won't know why, only that they sound best at YOUR show. THAT'S why I have vocal keychange and separate mic EQ[/quote]
Vocal keychange?? Explain?? Even 'karaoke mixers' do not have vocal key changers. Are you talking about an external vocal harmonizer processor? Or are you talking about key changing the music up/down to fit a voice better?[/quote]


I have incorporated a second mini-board into my mixer that can do anything the mixer does to music for the vocals, including digital keychange and pitch.

In other words, instead of changing the music after a song starts, I can also bring the singer in tighter by mixing the vocal input from the mic. I can change SINGER'S key or pitch.

This would normally never have to be done with a regular. You already KNOW where they sing and adjust and mix the music accordingly. MOST of the time. This technique is mainly for singers new to the show who get caught.

The thing is, I've found that when singers KNOW of an adjustment, they end up trying to compensate for some reason, usually only getting worse. So I just work behind scenes.[/quote][/quote]


Interesting, I find it very hard to sing with the vocal key changed. Surprised it helps those who are having trouble to begin with.

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Lonman @ Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:20 pm wrote:


[
I have incorporated a second mini-board into my mixer that can do anything the mixer does to music for the vocals, including digital keychange and pitch.

In other words, instead of changing the music after a song starts, I can also bring the singer in tighter by mixing the vocal input from the mic. I can change SINGER'S key or pitch.

This would normally never have to be done with a regular. You already KNOW where they sing and adjust and mix the music accordingly. MOST of the time. This technique is mainly for singers new to the show who get caught.

The thing is, I've found that when singers KNOW of an adjustment, they end up trying to compensate for some reason, usually only getting worse. So I just work behind scenes.
[/quote]

Interesting, I find it very hard to sing with the vocal key changed. Surprised it helps those who are having trouble to begin with.[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By George I think we have a BINGO!

I guess I was trying to be too PC to be clear. This technique is used to bring crappy off-key singers closer to being in tune. It is not for use with anyone generally able to carry a tune.

It actually has TWO benefits: 1) The singer doesn't know why, but knows they sound better with me- and tells friends how great my sound is (snicker).

2) The venue's other patrons and owners don't have to sit through an earbleeder- keepning them happier as well.

The expense is minimal, and once used to it, you can do it almost without effort, so why not?

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 Post subject: Re: New mixer amp
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:48 pm 
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I would use Auto-Tune to do that and never even dare to do it manually.

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