Karaoke Forums

Speaking from the experiences I've had in my area, (as I stated in another thread), there are sooo many shows that BOAST of having EVERY song you could possibly have on disc, they feel no need to also have a player . They are putting out DUMMY BOOKS, because karaoke singers LIKE to have a book of songs to choose from. This is what they're used to. Books also help, because, you can NEVER think of what you want to sing when you get there. The kj CAN'T possibly print a book of all of his songs. Hell, he CAN'T even print a book that lists all of his "DISCS" for that matter.
When you have AT LEAST 100,000 songs, you'd need a library to fit all of your songs, not to mention how long it would take to print, hence the DUMMY BOOK.


Rosario

So, I take it a "dummy" book is simply any book that doesn't provide a 1:1 representation of the "discs" the show owns?

-or-

Is a "dummy book" simple a book that doesn't provide a 1:1 representation of the tracks in the show's computerized data base?

And if the purpose of "dummy" books (whatever they are?) is to CYA, in what why does a "dummy" book accomplish that?

Eric, I don't know how many discs these guys PHYSICALLY own, but in order to have 100,000 songs, I'd say it has to be an awful lot @ 15 songs per. IF they have discs. I think a DUMMY book (in my opinion) is a book that doesn't reflect the actual 1:1 ratio of harddrive tracks the kj has. The ones that are printing books, are just doing it because alot of karaoke singers WANT A BOOK to look in to pick a song. They may not always know the name of the song, or who sings a certain song, or what they want to sing, and they want to look it up in the book. The kj always announces "if you don't see your song in the book, just come up and ask, I'll probably have it". In no way is it a CYA, because in no way does it CTA.


Rosario

Then I run dummy books, I only list 1 listing of each song (with manu code). If you want a different version, then you may ask, but what you write down will be what you get.

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Maybe that's how these guys figure out what to put in the books, maybe they are listing 1 version of each song they have. I'm speculating, I don't really know, but I do know that they CAN'T list 100,000 songs. I don't know how many songs you have, your reasoning may be TOTALLY different than theirs.

Rosario

So, again I find myself asking why have there been over two dozen posts discussing a topic that at very least, I can't "get my arms around"

Why does it matter if catalog may have less songs in it than the actual library? Many shows don't re-do their catalog after every purchase?

But... an erroneous catalog could raise reasons to be suspicious if it has many more songs listed than the actual library contains! Up till now I've played the "Devil's Advocate" in expressing confusion about what a "dummy" book implies. I can see a why it would be a "problem" and the reason is actually in line with Timerbelea's thoughts. In effect, the "dummy" karaoke catalog, just like a "dummy" set of accounting books, is designed to mislead people!

Consider the following:

A) "bogus" KJ goes to a proprietor and uses his "dummy" book to impress the proprietor with the size of his library - meanwhile - half the songs in the catalog aren't in the actual library.

B) "bogus" KJ tries to impress his audience with the bogus catalog, hoping no one asks for tracks that he/she actually doesn't have.

Eric, I've run into those kind of kj's also, where you request a song THAT IS IN THEIR BOOK, and they say "oh, I don't have that song" What the heck does that mean? When asked, the kj says, I just switched to computer and no longer bring my discs, AND I don't have that song on hard drive yet. What's worse, is you pick ANOTHER song, and (take a guess), same answer. At that point, I just ask "why don't YOU pick a song for me, because I can't seem to find one that you have." Needless to say, I never made a return trip. I think this is the type of kj that the OP ran into which caused this thread.

Rosario

Here's something. I went to another KJ's show and the KJ had a problem with his hard drive. He made 1 phone call and within 15 minutes, one of his buddys brought him a replacemet. tisk tisk tisk. Well, that's another ball game.

I am in the process of becoming a 2 rig operation. To stay legit there will always be an original physical CD (or download receipt) for every song that is on the hard drive for each rig (same disc on both rigs means 2 CDs bought and paid for!). There will end up being songs available in one rig but not the other and vice versa. On nights when there is only 1 show then I can combine the collection into one (just hook up the second HDD). The songbooks has been a question that I have yet to resolve since I don't want to have to print multiple versions of songbooks but equally don't want to have songs listed that aren't available.

In the end I think I'm going to end up with what might be called 'Dummy' books depending on which rig is in operation at a given show. I can always move (move, not copy!) files from 1 HD to the other so if I don't have it one week it'll be there the next. One rig may have Sound Choice, the other Chartbuster, who knows.

Finally, if the location has t'internet I may be able to download at least some version of the song and all will be well.

I figure a well placed disclaimer in the front of the books (like the rotation explanation and other top tips) will be enough.

Not saying this was what the other host was doing, but at my shows sometime in the future, this is what will happen.


- Jonn

Your best bet would be to have two separate books, but also make two smaller books with the additions from each rig that you can set out in addition to the full book.
For example, rig one has 2000 songs with 100 of them being unique and not on the other rig. Rig two has 2000 songs with 50 unique songs. Make an additional small book to hold the additional songs from rig one and the same for rig two. It means you would have 4 books, but the cost of the 2 smaller books will be negligible. That way you will always be covered with no missing songs. As a singer, if I chose a song and it wasn't available, I would be disappointed and if it happened more than once in the same night I would be a little on the PO'd side.


I'm not sure this will help you at all. I know for a fact that most singers won't bother to read your rules, rotation policy, or song disclaimer. They head straight to the meat of the book looking for the song they want to sing and won't bother with the other stuff.

If it was my show, the same thing would happen. I keep a backup hard drive in my karaoke tool box that is NEVER used. It's there for emergency purposes only and is ONLY used for backup.
The reason is that I had a hard drive fail on me quite some time ago and I lost everything. I will NOT repeat that experience!Thank goodness I had no shows at the time, but if I had, I would have missed more than a few weeks worth of shows. The time would have been spent re-ripping and renaming my whole library and I could have lost the gigs altogether.
As it stands, if it should happen again, all I need to do is reach into my karaoke tool box, pull it out, and hook it up. I know that you're supposed to only have one copy, but I'm sorry. I'm protecting hours upon hours of work and nothing anyone can say will make me think twice on it.

Why would you have lost a few weeks of gigs. If worst came to worst, run on discs while you are redoing the hard drive. No it's not as convenient, but you wouldn't need to lose work simply because you wouldn't want to bring in discs & a player.

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Because the only player I have is a cheapo home player that is TERRIBLE. No way would I be able to use it for any length of time.
I didn't set out to be a KJ when I started collecting my discs. I started buying them for the express purpose if bringing them to karaoke shows for my own use.
The show I used to attend would update their library by telling you to buy a disc and bring it with you. Incidentally, they are still doing it that way and driving more singers to my show!
Originally, I had the discs and not even a player to play them in. I used to play them on my regular CD player and practice with a printed sheet of lyrics.
Eventually, I saved up enough to buy the cheapo player, but then, shortly after, discovered the computerized way to do it. So the player is relegated to a storage closet.
Honestly, I'm not sure it could withstand a full night of hardcore karaoke.

So THAT'S why I could lose my gigs.
Not something I want to risk.
Besides, do I really WANT to spends hours and hours sitting in front of my puter for weeks on end? In short, NO!
I did it once already and I have better things to do with my time. As I said, the backup drive has NEVER been used and I hope it never will be.

Didn't the Teamsters start computerised karaoke? A kj had on his website that he played for for the International Teamsters Union. I doubt that. That's how, I believe all this computer stuff got started.

Absolutely, have a backup drive, either at the show or at home that's just common computer sense. If we all go with the one-to-one ratio interpreted as one physical disc for every rig it's available on then no harm no foul. Now, I 'could' use that second drive at the same time, but I 'could' also stab you with a kitchen knife. You can have as many 'kitchen knives' as you feel you need as long as no two are in use at different venues on the same night.

Thank you, Classic Karaoke, for putting the reasoning behind it so simply.
Of course it makes sense.
I've been under the impression that no matter how much sense it made and no matter if I use it as I am, (NOT multi-rigging) that I would be labelled a "pirate" for it.
Well, I'm here to say that I'm NOT a pirate and it IS a legitimate use of the product.
As stated on another thread, it looks like the right to format shifting will win the day.
I know in Canada, it's perfectly legal, no matter what Sound Choice (or any other manufacturer) says.

Diafel, please show me the Canadian legislation that says you can format shift legally for karaoke. I haven't found any yet. The closest I've seen is Avla and karaoke is not subject ot an AVLA licence as it has the visual subcode (ie lyrics). The extra fee we pay on blank media is for private copying use and not commercial.

I personally don't care if a KJ has one to one or harddrive as long as one copy one show is used. However, I believe proper information be given on the laws as written.

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As per long standing Canadian tradition, UNTIL there is a law written on the books addressing the situation, it IS legal.
If there's no law against it, how can it be illegal?
What contravention of what law would you charge me with?
Canadian law books are not full iof laws that say what you CAN do. It's quite the opposite. Full of laws that say what you CAN'T do.
Now you show me the law that says it's illegal.

Hmmmm. Why is this being left alone?