Karaoke Forums

When the smaller cdg's first came out the first question was can we play these on the Pioneer player? The next remark was they only have the words and no video they will never make it. Within a few months I was one of the few ripping and burning cd's and taking them to gigs. After ripping I started backing up by putting the compressed tracks on cd's If I remember right you could put about 50 per cd. Then as hard drives got more and more capacity that became the standard.

It became apparent that computerized systems were in the future. At that time I had a 650 cpu, Win98SE. My first purchase was Cavs SP player which could play cd's in the plextor or play ripped files. Also the decoder and encoder for ripping and burning. There were no forums such as this and most of the time it was experimentation. We actually ran a few shows with the above setup but it still had bugs and problems.

When Win 2k Pro came out and with a 1.2 cpu it was more dependable and viable to completely depend on. I think hard drives were up to a whopping 40 GB and with a library of 3500 songs they were adequate.

In those days there were many who were screaming it's ILLEGAL!!! At one time I had a ripping page ripping and modified when needed. At one time I was getting 50 hits a day on this page as people world wide were converting.

To date no amendments to copyright laws have been passed to regulate this. BTW RIAA or ASCAP have no authority concerning federal copyright laws and if confronted by them I would tell them to bug off or I will call the cops now. It would cost billions of dollars for the FBI to investigate and prosecute all the KJ'S They spend thousands on initial investigations for each case gathering evidence before arrests. I think it is here to stay until something else comes along and I do think that is sooner than we think.

I have run shows with Cavs, Winamp, and to play zip files I changed to Sax-n Dotty. Yes I have used digital karaoke for about 8 years...It has been a ride...

Think I was kidding? old backup

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Justice Department Announces First Ever Conviction For Infringing Copyrights In Karaoke Sound Recordings
WASHINGTON - A Minnesota woman today pleaded guilty to conspiring to willfully reproduce and distribute hundreds of thousands of infringing copies of copyright-protected karaoke sound recordings that were pre-loaded onto computer hard drives and then sold on eBay and other online auction sites, Assistant Attorney General Alice S. Fisher of the Criminal Division and U.S. Attorney Rachel K. Paulose for the District of Minnesota announced today.

Tracy Ann Brock, 43, of Burnsville, Minnesota, pleaded guilty to a one-count felony information charging her with conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement. The plea was entered before United States District Judge David S. Doty. Ms. Brock faces up to five years in prison, a fine of $250,000, and three years of supervised release.

Ms. Brock’s conviction is the first ever criminal conviction for infringing copyrighted karaoke music and is part of the Department of Justice’s broader initiative to combat online auction piracy. From April 2004 and continuing until July 2006, Ms. Brock, as President and co-owner of Star Music, Inc., conspired to reproduce and upload hundreds of thousands of infringing copies of copyright-protected karaoke songs onto hundreds of computer hard drives. During this time, Ms. Brock also conspired to sell these pre-loaded computer hard drives for profit through various entities and websites, including eBay.

Federal Bureau of Investigation agents identified Ms. Brock as a suspect and executed a search warrant at her residence in Burnsville, Minnesota, on July 28, 2006. Agents seized large quantities of CDs, computers, and other storage devices used to reproduce, upload, and store the pirated songs onto hard drives, which were then later sold on eBay and other online auction sites.

This case was investigated by the Minnesota Cyber Crimes Task Force, which included the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the United States Secret Service, and the United States Postal Inspection Service.

The case is being prosecuted by John H. Zacharia, Trial Attorney for the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section of the Criminal Division, with assistance from Francis J. Magill, Assistant U.S. Attorney for the District of Minnesota.

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This is a blatant case which comes under the classification of distribution and should be prosecuted. However I have googled for many hours and yet to find the court proceedings with the outcome and penalties judged. This is a federal case which is tried in a federal district court. It takes mega bucks to prosecute to the conclusion. I have worked with or have been busted by the FCC for incomplete transmitter logs and a 600 foot tower needing painting and have been interviewed by the FBI and have told OSHA to go where the sun doesnt shine. I am an American and know my rights period... With an oath that took in 1960 I will defend these rights with my life. Talk or posts here are cheap.. At a certain point I am from Missouri and not Colorado.

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I started Karaoke with cassettes and printed lyrics. Then I went to laser discs, then CD+G, tried mini-discs- went back to CD+G, went PC- went back to CD+G ( except for tiny house parties ( No debates, please- just call it personal preference.)


You are 100% correct in regard to the so-called artist's organization ( All of whom, by the way, are being sued BY the artists for the money that the groups supposedly collect for them)

Unfortunately, they can still be annoying enough for some venues to just give up and cave. In my area, some now refuse to hire cover bands, some refuse karaoke, some refuse ONLY PC based karaoke.

It's not that all downloads are like limewire, it's the lack of proof for licensing. Hell, even SC DISCS have been recalled for improper licensing.

The thing is, a disc labeled by the manufacturer removes all liability from the host. By labeling, I don't just mean the paper one, but the code on the inner circle of the disc. If there is a licensing problem, it now sits on the mfr.

Unfortunately, downloads do not come with a copy of the licensing agreement for each track, or even copyright references. This makes it a whole lot harder to prove that they aren't pirated material. An e-mailed receipt just means that you paid for it, and is not considered proof of licensing.


Bottom line: The artist groups are juiceless, but can cause problems anyway. They lose almost all of their lawsuits, AND money, but in the process lose us gigs with the irritation effect.

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" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe true story RIAA came into our bar and the owner told them. Talk to my uncle in Kansas City.. He might be your boss..... They left and never came back. If you think they are legit then I have a bridge I will sell you. The coin ops and AMOA members are aware of this concerning jukeboxes.

Support the independants on myspace I see the day when we deal directly with artists and not con artists.

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I find it amusing that people seem to quote the above news article as an example that pirates can be and are prosecuted.
Generally, it's also quoted to try and scare those of us who are computer based.(not saying that's the case here, but I've certainly seen it elsewhere).
Bu they're missing the point and we need to take a look at what REALLY happened with that case.
From a legal standpoint, that case had to meet several criteria in order to be prosecutable.
First, it had to be on a relatively massive scale.
Second, the suspect had to be distributing the items.
Third, she had to personally profit from it.
Last, she had to know that what she was copying was copyright protected.
How many of those critera would the local KJ pirate, multi-riggers included, meet?
Probably only one or two at most.
Those four criteria are going to be the standard for KJ piracy investigation and prosecution. I would have to say that most, if not all, KJ's who happen to be pirates will fail to meet even 3 of the four.
An interesting thing to note about the whole case is that it was not the artists who brought on the investigation or even the karaoke manufacturers. It was EBAY, in an effort to combate online auction piracy. The reason being, is that they were getting so many complaints from purchasers about fake goods, and demanding their money back, that they were, in a way, forced to do something about it.
The scope of what eBay was combatting included pirated designer jeans, hand bags, jewellry, videos and a whole slew of other things, not just music. This woman just happened to be caught in the net.
Unless a giant like feebay gets involved in such things, most of these will go unnoticed and certainly unprosecuted.
Now how many local KJ pirates will meet THAT criteria?

Diafel, sorry you are wrong on some of those points.

1. It has to be on a relatively massive scale. Wrong, nthing in the legislation state that.

2. Distribution. You do not need to be distributing (ie selling copies) to be prosecuted under the act. Distribution is one of the violations, not the only one.

3. You must profit by it. Not necessarily. If I make many copies of a disc or DVD and start giving them away, I can be charged.

The reason why you don't see any KJs being convicted can be attritued to two main things.

a. they may have been given a Cease and Desist Order;

b. KJs are so low on the order in the things of importance which Law Enforcementis involved in, that they are more or less ignored;

c. further to subpara b, unless there is a complaint, they will not act. It's just not a priority.

Now this doesn't mean that it is legal or okay. You never know when some Crown Prosecutor (Canada), DA (USA) , or most likely a politician, will decide that it is time to do a crackdown (unlikely but who knows) and lay charges.

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Timberlea, you are right. There is nothing in the legislation about it and your points are certainly valid.
However, maybe I should have been more clear and stated that they most likely WON'T prosecute unless those criteria are met. It's simply not worth their time and effort otherwise. I should have stated such, as opposed to having look like I was quoting law, which I was not. What I was quoting was the most likely scenario of criteria that will prompt an investigation and subsequent prosecution.
My bad.

Hilarious!
I'm sure that's the same page I found way back when, that taught me how to use my non-compatible drive for ripping.
I must thank you for it. It was great information and very useful.
Small world.

Does that woman really live in a town called BURNS-ville?????? That is too funny.

I didn't catch that. Thanks for pointing that out.
That IS funny!

In all the amendments that at pertain to copyright laws . Use the find all function under edit.

Show me the word karaoke, cdg, format shift, hard drive or anything related to our case. You will not find it Australia has addressed this issue but our reps are still catering to corps and big interests. The present copyright laws do not address laws regarding second generation copies of artists works. The artists have no say in the matter at least most of them. Until they pass a law that says I cant put my library on a hard drive there is not a federal judge that will twist archaic laws to prosecute a KJ. I will argue this until the cows come home and will defend any hard working KJ with every thing I have including my life. You are full of BS and promulgating rumors which have no substance. These rumors were started by corps that need to make money before the truth hit and the economy is totally destroyed by corruption. As an elder I will stand and I will say NO!! Either you have the guts to stand with me or melt like a child. But do not attempt to deceive me with rumors. You will have one hell of a battle on your hands. And I do not hide behind a small pic. Everybody here knows me inside and out where I live and where I work. Take your rumors and fantasy laws and put them where the sun doesnt shine. Give me a federal judges opinion that what we do is illegal.. Do you actually consult attornies before posting
? I am fully tired of this BS.. Come bust me I will sue you for everything you have.

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karyoker, to whom was you last post addressed?

Sound Choice discs state: "Warning: Use of the pre-recorded material contained herein in any manner for the reproduction of recording for sale, rental or distribution without the prior written consent of the copyright owner of the rights therein is a violation of the U.S. Copyright Law and is strictly prohibited. Unauthorized public performance, rental or broadcast transmission in part or in whole is strictly prohibited. All rights reserved."

The last line there...public performance...kinda saying that just by singing to their music in public you're (or the singer is) breaking the law?


Just wonderin'....

To anybody that accuses me of being illegal. Call me a liar or crook and you will have an angry scot/apache in your face. I am not a violent person but do not push it unless you are fully prepared to take it to the limit. I am a gentleman and a man.. My word is good as gold. From my father and grandfathers I adhere to very strict standards. This is the basic part of me. My spiritullism is another story. I am a shepherd. I am a teacher and counselor and children look into my eyes and profess their love and trust which I return freely. I am a psychic and have experienced spiritual highs which only old souls can obtain. In my Fathers house are many mansions.. I use music as a way of setting souls free for a few minutes. I am free and do not need secular laws which someday will turn into dust and the natural and spiritual laws will govern again. I have a coat of many colors but do not play roles. You can look into my eyes and there are no walls. I am what I am. I LOVE YOU UNCONDICIONALLY..

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Notice that when it speaks about public performance, it does NOT mention any law, but the preceding statement about copying and distruibution mentions US copyright law.
Funny that.
I can make a cd and print on it that playing it on Sundays is strictly prohibited.
Doesn't mean any law is broken if you do, though. Also doesn't mean it's prosecutable.

"Unauthorized" public performance. As long as the club is paying the ASCAP/BMI/SESAC fees, this would authorize the public perfomance.

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Great point, Lonman!

Ironically, an insurance company (not agent) that we once used for my wife's business was out of Burnsville, MN

Sound Choice...them there's sly devils