Karaoke Forums

In trying to set up and learn how to use my new monitor, never having set up any kind of monitor before, I am running is to various issues. Before I drive myself crazy I must ask: do you feed just the mics into the monitor or do you include the music, as well?

It's been so long since I've been at any karaoke venue that uses a monitor I don't remember what the experience of singing along with a monitor is like!

Ideally you want voice without any effect coming through the monitor. If you daisychain a monitor to your mains, they'll get the mix with voice and music. I used two singer monitors basically crossing over in front of the singer at previous venues. Our current venues don't require us to use monitors.

This is how I would run a monitor for karaoke.

1. Have its own power so you can controll the volume seperate from the Mains, the monitor doesn't need to be as loud as the mains.

2. Some people don't like effects in their monitors but I prefer effects in my monitor, I want close to the same mix (music and vocals) in my monitor as whats going out front.

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SERVING THE COMMUNITY SINCE LAST TUESDAY

I have read several experienced people who's opinion I respect say that only voice, no music through the monitors, but I like to hear the music so I can keep in synch with it and I prefer to hear my voice complete with vocal effects so I know how I sound to the audience. Being able to hear the music seems to help to stay on key.

I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong and I may completely change my mind a week from now.

I've noticed that when my system is set up where people can hear themselves and the music even when there is no monitor, they really like it and comment on how good the sound system is.

Any decent mixer will have an AUX1 (or mon1) output fader/knob, and you can typically send effects to the aux as well.

I also like a bit of effects in the monitor. Not a lot, but some.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

If you daisychain, make sure you are not dipping your amp below it's maximum load rating (ie 4 ohms, 2 ohms, etc.). I knew a guy who ran 2 speakers per side on his amp then daisy chained a monitor - dropping the rating to 2 ohms & blew his amp as it couldn't go below 4 ohms.

I prefer a separate monitor mix individual from the main. I can tailor it to what the singer wants. Usually I have vocal just over the music feeding to them, but occasionally they will ask for more vocal, or NO vocal, more music or no music. You can do this with an individual mix, not with a daisy chain from the main.
Agree with Karen you generally do not want any effect in the monitors, however I will add a touch of reverb into it, nothing overpowering mind you.

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When we were daisychaining we were running with appropriate power but don't use that system anymore at all. We haven't had a need for monitors for the singers due to the setup in our rooms - If someone is having trouble hearing I just slightly tip the speaker toward the stage - doesn't have to be much. Never have feedback using the powered Mackies. When I was backup singing I was never satisfied with monitor mixes - preferred to have the full mix coming through, not just my voice. I know when I was doing sound for bands, the best way to get a guy to hold back volume wise was to crank his monitor up; conversely, if he was holding back volume wise, I would drop the volume on the monitor - for some reason that was a much more successful method than riding the gain in hopes of equalizing his volume. Worked like magic! Probably would with karaoke singers, too.

The people who only want the voice without effects usually come from the music background. Most of my musician friends want their own instrument on their monitor, with just a bit of other music as a reference.

For me, Karaoke needs music and vocal so you can hear yourself in tune with the music. That's the whole point, so you can hear yourself in the mix to the front and you can adjust your vocal to match the output.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

This, as I am playing around, is the conclusion I'm coming too...please let me know if you disagree

The music is quite apparent, loud and clear to the singer through the mains; it's the vocals that get "lost" and causes a singer to "lose their place". So... I'm tempted to run only the vocals through the monitor.

Also, rather than plugging the "monitor", a 10" Peavey P10 into the monitor jack, I have concluded it works better plugged into "Group 1-2" And practicing (in my home), it appears that the vocal from the monitor "blends" with the vocal from the mains.

Does all of this make any sense?

That's up to you, as a singer I prefer both music & vocals so I would ask for that. I do not like to hear just my voice blasting back at me on stage & once this is what you are hearing, you will lose what bit of music you could hear without a monitor at all. So make sure you have the ability to add music if someone asks.

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As far as being able to hear the music from what is coming out of the mains, that's not always the case, in fact if it was, there wouldn't be much need for monitors IMO.

I've been at places where the speakers were a few feet out in front of the singer and it was hard to hear the music and therefore hard to follow along. You couldn't hear the music or yourself.

Placing the mains out past the singers is great for eliminating feedback and then by adding a monitor, if it's not too hot or the mic is not too hot, you won't have any feedback. But IMO singers are there to sing in public and they want to hear themselves as part of the experience. They want to imagine they're a star for a few minutes.

If you have a really bad singer you can turn their voice up in the monitor and turn their voice down a bit in the main mix to give the audience a break.

I tried one of my EV Zx1 speakers as a monitor the other day and it was great. It's small and compact, but puts out a lot of sound. At $300 each retail, it's kind of expensive to use as a monitor for Karaoke, but if you have a popular show and you're packing them in, it sounds great and is probably worth it over time. I saw a used one just sell on ebay for around $150, what a deal!

This is VERY much an advantage for a separate monitor mix!

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Exactly how I run it too. Fact is it helps the singer too because I can really turn the mic up hot for those folks with very soft voices and turn down the monitor mix. This seems to be a useful feedback control item I use for a couple of people.

It's also good for the drunk friend that the singer doesn't want to throw off the stage but is only screaming in the mic. You can kill him from the main completely and let him think he's really hammering it on the monitor. Evil I know, but it saves the audience's hearing

I hear what you're all saying, but please consider that I don't have the speakers "way out front". They're, at most 3 ft forward of the singer. However, they are about 15-20 feet away (on the sides). That set up, I have found, leaves the vocals on some tracks hard to hear. I guess I should add that one important consideration - it's only "some tracks" that are problematic. I haven't a problem with every song! In fact, it doesn't have a problem with most songs.

But when the problem occurs, it seems that the vocals from the Peavey "blend" with the mains and enhance them enough so that the vocals that would, otherwise, get "lost" are there to be heard!

Meanwhile, when I do add music to the monitor, it starts to sound "muddy". And when I channel the vocals and music to the monitor through the group 1-2 buss, I have no way of selectively changing the volume on any particular input for just the monitor without effecting the mains.

If I put everything through the "monitor" jack on the mixer, I still have the same problem of not being able to selectively adjust any one inputs, particularly the music, without effecting the mains!

At least, that's my understanding as of this moment on what "flexibilities" I have for volume adjustments! But, I guess, one way or another I need to learn how to have "everything" go through the monitor while changing the volume of selected inputs to the monitor without effecting the mains.

If a mixer can handle it, always have a separate monitor mix. A mon is for the singer on the stage; the mix depend on what the singer wants. There are too many variable, that only a separate mix is viable. Think:
only vox
only music
vox over music
music over vox
loud vox and music
without efx
with efx
FOH mix

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

This sounds like basic eq adjustments. If the vocals are blending with the music, then the vocals & music need to be eq'd to separate them - if the mixer has a swept mid, this is very easily done. You can even add a separate eq for the monitors to adjust them from the mains as well.
But like said, I personally would not want to sing if I primarily heard my voice in the monitors, I definitely want a good blend of music & vocals.

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We are definitely all different. I want a lot more of me than the music -- though I do want some music. I think I am getting to be a little hard of hearing, as I frequently have trouble hearing myself at shows.

In fact, it is rare these days that I don't have that complaint. One show last week had a funky little Bose monitor speaker that clipped on their speaker stand pointing toward the singer area, and there I heard myself well. Not so coincidentally, I am going back tomorrow.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I thank you all. Everyone's input was food for thought and a great help. It's now up to me to become better acquainted with how to configure my new board and to find the best settings using the various configs.

I guess what is last on my mind is there anyway to adjust the mic level separate from the music level when they are both running to the monitor, WITHOUT changing the mix for the mains? To answer that questions it may help to know that I have the Yamaha MG124cx!

Using the Aux send to the monitor amp, then you have full control over what goes to the monitor without messing the mains up.

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Lonman,

It's too late here now to power anything up and try out the following. And I don't have to tell you how many questions I still have after reading the manual.

So.. if I understand your suggestion, then what follows will make sense to you and I'll know if I've "got it"

On each channel the Yamaha has an "AUX" knob. There is also a 1/4in "AUX" output jack. The "AUX" knob, I believe, controls the level of output for their respective channels to that one "AUX" 1/4 inch jack. Correct?

Immediately below each "AUX" knob there is an auxilliary on/off pre-switch ("PRE"). When the switch is on, the output to the 1/4" jack is pre fader. Which means I could control the volume level with each "AUX" knob.

Did I get it?