Karaoke Forums

As one who has serviced bars in many trades and one who has formed pool and dart leagues I bring a warning to many here. It got to the point where pool league rules required a book 3 inches thick. It was no longer fun and the camraderie and initial purpose died. I saw the same with dart leagues. When greed and money became the primary objective the overall effect killed it and what money bars were making gradually dissipated.

I see the same trends here. Everything regarding karaoke must have rules. Only this time it is very analagous to a cult.I cant believe some of the passions displayed here regarding certain rituals of doing things and it must be written in stone.

It is not a flippin religion and what works in your venues or area will not work here. I can take over any venue break every rule and increase the till. When I do go out I want to relax and not take part in rituals. I really dont care if I sing every rotation or whether Sue is bumped ahead of me. I am there to party and make friends and regard karaoke in the same way as leagues. They are only an excuse to come and after awhile are secondary to reasons being there.

You can rant and totally disagree but for over 4 years I have been ahead of all on this forum and have predicted trends. My predictions have not failed yet. Loosen up forget about the childish ways and start putting on a professional show.

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

We try to run a fair rotation because it seems to be a hot button with many people and we don't want to hurt feelings by skipping anyone. But I, personally, am with you as far as being there more for the fun and party than getting every possible turn to sing. But then I'm not a serious singer.

But it seems that some people are so adamant about their turn that not only will they walk out if they feel skipped or slighted, they will try to get the KJ fired. One guy made a huge fuss at our freind's show because she let some newcomers slip in at the end of the line before she started the rotation over. That's how she does it. He complained to the bar owner and now the bar owner gets upset if he sees her doing it and comes up and checks her list and wants to know why newcomers are singing when he should be next. He never gives up a turn, even with a crowd. One more person complained about the same thing months later and the bar owner asked if we would be able to replace the offending hosts.

My boyfriend told him that he was insane. He said that the other hosts had worked for him 7 years so why not talk to THEM if there was a problem. He also pointed out that they bring in twice as many people as we do. There is more of a wait for their show because they have a bigger crowd, not because we are better at rotation. But rotation insanity seems to trump everything.

The thing that gets me is the people who complain the most only show up intermittantly and often are so focussed on their own turn that they don't give other singers much attention. Whereas the people who come to be with their friends and have a good time are more good natured about slip ups and aberrations and cheer on their friends just for having the guts to get up there. They also know that the congestion comes mainly at the overlap between the early and late crowds but if you come early or stay late, you will probably get lots of chances to sing.

The other thing that has been mentioned here before is that you can't get a good paycheck with just singers. And it is more fun for the singers to have a crowd but not have every single person there be in line to sing. So as a former audience member rather than singer, I went to be entertained and people bitching about their turn to sing was never part of what I remember as the fun. In fact I don't even remember being aware there was such a thing as rotation.

For me Karaoke is Fun and I try to keep it that way. I have fought the temptation to list the "Rules" for my karaoke show.

I have seen many shows with various "rules" for the singers many of them good, a few bad. Most of them are obvious, or just common decency. I prefer to not list them because it can make the singers feel like they are being treated like children.

As for rules as a host, and rules for the trade, it is pretty simple stay legal to the best of your ability, that means no pirated songs, and pay your taxes and fees.

As for rules for your show, do what works. Sometimes it is different from what works at other shows. Observe talk to other KJs, and get the feel of the crowd.

It all boils down to common sense and fair play. I agree when KJ's and there shows become so STRICT and allow no fluctuation for changes on any given night ...it is sad. Everyone from seasoned KJ's to virgin singers would probably agree that a FAIR rotation is a must for repeat type business. This doesn't mean if a singer is made to wait an extra singer or two for their turn ( for whatever reason) they should CRY to their friends or the bartender or the owner or KJ. Whatever happened to the friendly karaoke family? Too many shows have their regular clicks and outsiders are not welcomed or made to feel inferior. LIGHTEN up people
relax and have some fun !!..... NOW THE FLIP SIDE is those horrible KJ's who share no sense of fairness and allow familiy and friends to sing before others who have been patiently waiting their turn in the rotation. KARAOKE is more than just ROTATIONS ---SONG SELECTIONS - AUDIO QUALITY - SHOW FORMATS it's a compilation of all of them and all must meet certain minimum requirements for a decent show.....But if one doesn't -- relax and have some fun ..If you had a good time --Go BACK if not ..Find another show. It amazes me the amount of people here that say they WALK out of this show and that show ....How do you ever find a show that you call HOME?

Karyoker,
Well said, obviously I agree totally.

_________________
#####################################

You know, Karyoker, you are right! It is SUPPOSED to be fun! And that IS the most important thing. I think what happens here when all us KJ's get together is...we have to b*tch about how the customers complain. They constantly bug us about 'when am up', 'so'n'so went before me' yada yada yada. We've made rules to try to keep everything fair so as to protect ourselves from the complainers. If someone complains, we just send them to the rules and prove that we are doing our job correctly!

AND the worst complainers...are those that usually sing poorly and don't drink and don't tip! I have one guy, who is hard of hearing, sings poorly, doesn't even drink a plain coke and complains to me about everything from the lineup to the volume on the monitor (he's deaf! I can't win!!). Then he'll go to one of our other shows with one of our other KJ's and come back to me and complains about THEM! *whew* gets old! I'm happy to have this forum to chat it out with...my poor hubby has heard it all too many time!

But in an effort to avoid ANY customer being unhappy...we make rules... it is sad isn't it?

I think any good KJ will admit to bending now and then...being fair but also not being too rigid....

One sure way to tell is how the bar is doing ...good till? lots of people coming in? I hate slow nights just for that reason...makes me feel like I'm not doing a good job, then the next week it'll be slammed like usual and I'm a happy camper again!!

I guess we just all need to remember to not take the complainers too seriously...there will always be someone who can't be made happy!

and I couldn't disagree more.

The shows I've attended without rules, the singers took advantage of the kj.

No, in all things in life for the public, there are rules to follow to assure the smoothest usage for everyone.

Don't like it, don't come to my shows! VERY simple.

This comment is not towards any one person, but directed to those that complain about too many rules...

But don't spout off this trash as I'm some kinda nazi. Do you work a reagular job? Do you tell your boss how you're going to do your job?? pfsheeeit!

As always, we can agree to disagree. I stay loose and fun. Just because you have regimented rules doesn't mean you'll be taken advantage of. Rules are fine, but can be loosely applied. I personally don't get taken advantage of, I think people accept and respect certain things in a KJs personality, whether it be stated or not. The only reason I ever make posts about other KJs rules or policies is just because I'm curious and it is tyically representative of their personality. Sorry, my psych degree just makes me over analyze. Its always P O'ed girlfriends too, go figure.

Knightshow, as always your opinion is insightful and appreciated. Its always good to have a counterpoint, keeps ya grounded.

_________________
#####################################

Whether you like it or not, there will ALWAYS be rules and some form of regimentation, be karaoke gig, at home, in the work place or even in your love life. Most are not written, but that does not mean they don't exist.

You have rules on rotation and duet. ......as an example.

[/i]

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Personally, if I decide to go to a place with karaoke, I go because I feel like trying out some songs I don't normally sing, which is my idea of partying,and making friends, while nice if it happens, is not my main reason for being there . I wouldn't stay at a place with no defined rules.I don't expect, or want, special treatment, but would walk if others got it and it was a pattern rather than just a mistake. I might even let a manager know why I am leaving on my way out.(I wouldn't make a big deal about something like being skipped over if it only happened once , or someone being put in before me on a busy rotation, though. )

Rules,laws are part of civilized people...COMMON SENSE needs to be applied for each rule !! It's the KJ who does not apply common sense to "their" set of rules on each and every ocassion who are WRONG

RULE #1: NO jumps in rotation(everybody waits their turn)
Situation: 90 year old woman just finishing here birthday dinner is getting ready to leave and realizes there is karaoke in the bar and asks if she could sing a song to her family before she leaves .... Do you tell her NO she has to wait 90 minutes ?
or do you look at the rotation and put her up next ?

Now you can't put every SOB story up next because the system wouldn't work --COMMON SENSE people ..that's the tough part of being a KJ ..standing by your princicples against the WAH WAH COMPLAINERS who would have a problem with a 90year old woman singing 1 song. Rules should be GUIDLINES on how the show is run ..this post is about the KJ's whos say they NEVER BEND OR BREAK THEIR OWN RULES......I say BS ..you've all bent your own rules once or twice.

But don't spout off this trash as I'm some kinda nazi. Do you work a reagular job? Do you tell your boss how you're going to do your job?? pfsheeeit!

NO..but a good employee should discuss things with their boss, RULES and POLICIES are fundamentally needed in society. A good BOSS should hear an employees IDEA that might bend or break the rules THIS ONE TIME. If it makes SENSE .........break or change the rules. It's good to say ..RULES ARE RULES and post them ....This way people tend to follow the rules ...but you can't be so closed minded to think that some rules will need to be BENT from time to time without out causing MAJOR harm to others?

I believe some rules are beneficial because even though *you* know what is common sense in karaoke, not everyone will.

To me, things operate smoothest when everyone's expectations are in alignment. One way to communicate so that everyone's expectations are in alignment is to have rules. You can call them "How we do things", "Friendly Message", or anything else. You don't even have to have them written if you communicate them *consistently* to all of your regulars so that they spread the word.

I don't have a written rule sheet at the venue. I do have one for my hosts. They know how I want the rotation run, and I know that they have put it in place because all the regulars know what to expect.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

mcky57 - agree --Rules are needed for those idiots without common sense
But I think the spirit of this topic was those who choose to live by the written rules without exceptions or deviations. The ITS MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY attitude
whether for s KJ or a singer

Never said I was close-minded... certainly not like the beginning of this thread!

I don't know this for sure, but maybe someone who shares our style/method of running a show may have established some 'rules' or 'laws' previously because I have NEVER had to describe any rules to anyone, ever, at any of our shows. We do a fair rotation, rotation jumping is not possible, and I think foremost we just use COMMON SENSE (which I hear today is not that COMMON). Exceptions are just that, exceptions. A pretty well known host from years ago did himself out of the show circuit altogether with his karanazi attitude. He has a MASSIVE amount of equipment stored somewhere, a huge selection of music, and no gigs because the first thing he did was spout off his 'rules.' Great...is this an SAT exam or karaoke?

It could be that many of you are dealing with unruly, heavy drinking 20-somethings (or 30-somethings, or whatever) who will push the limits of everything they encounter. The majority of our singers fall more into the serious singer category. Nobody disrupts THEIR show... saves a lot of time and energy when we don't have to be dealing with situations constantly.

We put a rules sheet in our book with the basics like "no heckling," etc. but we don't make a big deal about calling attention to it. We put it in there for ONE singer only--a former KJ who comes to our friend's show and tries to get them fired over rotation policies. We wanted to have something to point to if he ever shows up at ours. (He believes if he comes early than people who come after should have to wait hours to sing and that a good KJ gets the people who got there first up once every 15 minutes.)

I want everyone to have fun and it is no fun if there aren't rules to keep things fair. I would rather have the rules than utter chaos. That said, the majority or my rules is a fair rotation and allowing the singer their moment in the sun. I have only had to ban a singer from one of my shows for violating the few rules I have. But that was for doing something blatent and over the top where it ruined the fun everyone else was having.

_________________
The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

If you think you can control that, well I have a brother and a child you could work on.....

Seriously, you can't stop people from being the way they are. I try to be flexible and accommodate people where possible. I won't do it if I think that is going to cause problems for others. How far can you open your mind before your brains fall out? That's the question.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I'm going to agree with Knightshow on this. The rules are what allow people to have fun. You don't have to worry about having all these mysterious little political exceptions coming up. And there are certainly KJs out there (my favorite, Erica, for instance) who enforce rules in a polite, no-hassle way.

_________________
See/hear the serial version of Michael's karaoke novel, "Outro," at outronovel.blogspot.com