Karaoke Forums

If a host got up every few songs regardless of other singers in the rotation then I would vote with my feet. The only reason the host should get out of the rotation is if they have a lot of singers qued up, my number actually is 11 singers, counitng myself, before I step out of the rotation.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

A few people here are aknowledging that not all of the paying customers are singers and that they want to be pleased, too. As a singer, you should want those people pleased also as they are helping to support the show while not adding as much to the singing line.

It is also rubbing me the wrong way that some have the attitude that the KJ is there to shut up and just spin discs. We are paying off thousands of dollars to give the customers a chance to sing. Keeping the books updated, buying new songs, pounding the pavement with flyers, convinceing bar owners to give people a place to sing, studying how to best run the equipment, hauling the equipment in and out, trying to come up with fun twists etc. adds days of work to the show that the customer never sees. Yes, we chose to do it and yes, to be a success we orient the show to serve the needs of the singers--we have been karaoke customers ourselves. But it is our show to run and we have to judge what is pleasing the most people in our particular venue. We don't start our show with an "Our way or the highway" attitude towards our audience and it is sort of offensive to be told that from a singer.

It is certainly the customer's right to not attend if a show doesn't fit their particular style. But to say that it has to be their way or it's not being done correctly seems like tunnel vision.

Fred

You can, of course, run your rotation anyway you like and make every justification/excuse for maximizing your turns singing. Doing so is not really much different than those who justified their bad behavior of not spending an meaningful amount of money in the venues where they enjoy singing.

Now you may want to profer "psycho-babble", about people finding work that they enjoy and not compartmentalizing ones life. Tell that to those just laid off - explain to them how important it is to reject job offers for positions that they might not derive enjoyment from.



And, I never saw a text book (business or psychology) that states well paying jobs are less enjoyable jobs!

Me, I'm from the school that recognizes that the customer pays my wages. And there are still some of us around that will make ourselves uncomfortable, if necessary, to maximize the positive experience of a customer. But what do I know? I'm a salesman and a former busboy and waiter. And I live in a town that lives and dies by tourism. And people who cater to tourists call their industry the "hospitality" or "service" industry. Employees concerned with their own comfort and enjoyment are not likely very hospitable or concerned with providing service to others. They don't belong in such an industry!

You may have convinced yourself, Fred, of the propriety of your position, as I am sure that the hosting family (of 3) have their own very good reasons for singing in every rotation and making sure that they sing the last 3 songs of the night.

Now, please don't tell me that I believe that KJ's should never sing. Every venue is different; sometimes every show is different! I just believe that a KJ should minimize, not maximize, their turns!

As Dean Martin said, "They can't put you in jail for what you are thinking."

Did I say I was going to ask? The reason I wonder is because I haven't asked.

Why would you go off on me like this?

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

If I recall, Dr. Fred has a huge amount of people attending his shows. He also mentioned they are mostly friends so they probably know the circumstances of his donation to their happiness. If not, a simple announcement that his payment is a chance to sing should suffice. I'm thinking that if his show is very popular and his singers don't mind him singing, why should we?

To answer the OP. I don't think, this kind of behavior is acceptable, at all. Imagining having a hosting partner and both singing a song each round is just wrong.

I run my shows alone and once I hit 10 people in the rotation, I take myself out. If it slows back down under 10, I'm back in. When were talking about 10 people, we're talking about a 40-45 minutes waiting time frame. I think, up to this point it is acceptable.

There was only one exception to this a couple of weeks ago. I started a new Monday night show. When I arrived to set up, the place was literally empty, except staff. When I was done setting up, right before I started the show, the place was packed to the last seat. All friends and regulars. So I only sang my opening song and when my name came up again, I announced that I am not singing anymore due to the amount of people attending and waiting, but I want to take a short moment to say thank you to everyone that came out to support the new show and how impressed and touched I am. After that announcement my regulars started to scream in between, things like "No, you HAVE to sing" or "Come on Alex, sing a song for us" etc. and then started clapping and chanting my name. So I did one song but explained that this is not usual routine at all and it would be my last song until the end of the night. Just to make sure, that the people that came out the first time, don't get the wrong impression.

Leopard

Since you have a strong opinion about my response to Fred's input - I will explain the impetus for my response.

The OP wanted to compare his reaction to others on the forum regarding a circumstance he experienced where partners sang in every rotation.

Obviously, any host "guilty" of doing the same as the partners did as described in the OP is going to have a "reason" for doing so. But, what about the paying customers?

Now, I don't like to play "what ifs" Leopard. I know nothing about the audience at Fred's show and I would not be so presumptuous to make any assumptions regarding them. So, what I post in response to Fred is based solely upon what I DO know - he works for free and maximizes his chances to sing!

And what I know/believe from my experience is that a KJ should "minimize" not "maximize" their "turn at bat". If there are no singers in the house, sure we as KJ have to fill in the dead air. Some of us play bumper music, some sing. If there is no one ready to sing, no one will take exception if I decide to sing to fill in the dead space! So..... no harm done.

Once there are singers, the karaoke should begin. If there is a "shortage" of singers, the KJ will likely have to sing. But... what if the KJ is not a singer (such KJ's exist), or has laryngitis? Then the KJ will have to rely on the existing guest singers - isn't that so?

So, in short, the OP doesn't need to know about Fred's special circumstances as a host. The OP was curious how others would react to the situation he found himself in AS A SINGER! And since Fred likes to sing so much, if he were a singer at the show described in the OP I'm sure he wouldn't be very happy about it, regardless of what justification those two used for singing in every rotation when it is crowded!

Now Now...so if someone calls me a 'KJ', they are calling me "common" ....ooooo them dars fightin words...

I actually don't call myself a Host or Hostess (am not a cupcake) I tend to call myself a DJ because that is what pays most of my bills.

Call it what you like, but Professional is a attitude. If you're a professional..you act professional...a good work ethic is required. A good work ethic would mean that the customers comes first. This is a 'service' industry...customers always come first in my book, no matter how much the job is paying me. I would act the same even doing a party for a friend for free! That's Professional.

I absolutely agree

I treat my self in terms of the rotation no differently than any other singer with the exception that I start off the show.

As for what I do with my time/energy in terms of how much I get paid that is up to me.

In many ways people who work without money being the primary motivation is respected. In the entertainment business and that includes karaoke.

Now you may not like it that some KJs or other jobs work for free, but it is difficult to tell who exactly that is. I am open about the fact (at least here on the boards) and that has gotten me considerable condemnation by a few. That may be why so few people admit that they KJ for free (or for less then the maximum they could squeeze out of the bar). I am willing to bet that a lot of the people who frequent the board do not KJ for pay (or enough pay to justify the effort).

Now if you have a problem with that go picket your local habitat for humantiy construction project or other unpaid activity. Many of these activities compete directly with paid businesses but provide a substantial social value.

well Lisah - Ms non-Kj - Ms Professional Hostess (do I have that right now?)

thanx for a fresh of breath air - Be Professional/act professional.


......Besides, you never know who might be in the audience?

Fred,

I responded to your post regarding how you situate yourself in the rotation and your supposed justification for doing so. No, I don't care if you pay the venue to host the show, that's your choice, foolish as it might be, IMHO. And this is more specifically what I responded to!




"NO", as I've already said, I have no obligation to familiarize myself with your financial arrangement with the venue

"NO", I don't say let the KJ sing, even if he works for nothing

"NO", a host shouldn't keep himself in a 3 hour long rotation. Doing so to me is UNprofessional! And there are some of us who believe acting professional is not a function of how much one gets paid!

And while Knightshow would like to distinguish between professional and non-professional KJs based upon remuneration, I would suggest that anyone with a 3 hour long rotation ought to be professional about the responsibility they have undertaken!

There are people who KJ for free - I am prone to offering to do things for different organizations around, particularly as it relates to children. I believe in the power of music.

As an adjunct to that, I feel fortunate that my love of music and performing, and providing KJ and DJ services, also allows me to reap the financial benefits of it. As it relates to my contribution, whether I charge for it or not, I believe that it is a professional approach to it that has allowed us great success - but not only financial success. I value what I do, and the singers who frequent our shows value us for that.

When I do something without charging, whether it is an actual show, advice on performance, setting up a show, setting up a contest ... whatever it is, I consider that paying it forward. I have been blessed with the ability to sing, to communicate well with people, and to share what I have in a way that makes people feel good. Not trying to get "psychy" here but I also am a great believer in the old "what goes around comes around."

As a KJ, I will do whatever I can to make our venues successful; if that means leaving early so they don't have to pay me for the night if it is obvious that no one will be coming in to sing, I do that; however, as a result of that, the next time I'm slammed with people it is not uncommon for a little extra to come my way...Nobody talks about it and nobody expects kudos for it.

I guess the whole point of this post was to bring another perspective to this discussion. Free doesn't mean a crappy show or someone who doesn't care, or someone who is desperate to get a show ... Free means without a money exchange, that's all. Certainly the choice of all parties involved. I do them because I want to and because someone else may gain some sort of benefit from it ... not financial benefit, but maybe an opportunity they might never have. I'm not independently wealthy and thankfully what I do as far as shows more than pays for what I invest. It's nice when we can do something we enjoy so much and get paid for it, too, but that doesn't mean I'm less than serious about my approach to it if there is no $$ involved.

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Every situation and venue is different. If you have played in the same club for years and have a loyal following of singers/friends, they don't like it if you don't sing. It becomes a fun "all involved" setting. Grant you there are places where the KJ may sing the first song to get things started and then not sing the rest of the night. This is especially true if it is a private party.

I'm curious, Fred, if you don't get paid...who supplies/repairs the equipment, keeps the library up-to-date, maintains the books (if there's no kiosk that is)

It's alot of work

In response to the OP. That is the reason that the owner of the pub I gig at purchased his own system and hooked up with some of the regulars to run it for him. The company he had running his shows before this were a husband and wife team. They each sung during each round and almost always had a "special request" that they had to do in the middle of the round. Now consider the fact that the crowd was dropping off but the "special requests" were increasing.
So when the owner suggested that I insert myself back into the rotation I was a little leary at first. I have since gotten compliments from both singers and non singers alike that the reason they come to the gig is because they enjoy my personality and songs. They always make it a point to compliment the host who works the other weekends also.
So back to what I had said in my last post.......Different situations, Different actions.
Every venue is different and every crowd is different. I don't believe that you will completely please every person that is there for the night, but if you can please the majority of them then it ends up being a good time and a good night.

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Mongo ain't exactly a "who," he's more of a "what".

I agree with you acting "Professional" has little to do with how much one is getting paid.

I disagree with you on your definition of professional.

In my opinion being professional is staying legal, and doing what works. If I can regularly get my show up to a 3 hour rotation especially with other karaoke in town with a much shorter rotation, I am being professional, regardless of your definition, my shows work.

I do not claim to be a great singer, but some people like the way I sing. AND some people come to my shows to hear me. In fact on numerous occasion I have had people I thougt were strangers refer to songs I sang 2 or more years previously.

Karaoke is entertainment. Being professional just boils down to getting people in the door to the bar and returning in the future (and staying legal). I succed. The bar where I run my show rarely had rotations that took more than an hour, when the previous KJ ran it two years ago, but for my last 40 or so shows the rotations have been over an hour at some point in the night for EVERY show.

You can add me to that list. I don't make any bones about it either. When people ask me if I make good money at it I say "I lose money at a less terrific rate", or "If I don't buy a single thing more I might pay for it all in 10 years". I regularly do volunteer gigs for charity or parks.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Actually I find it funny on the "supposed justification" method you use. You're basically saying that Fred is wrong, no matter how he phrases it, and you're right. Quite frankly were I Fred I'd be rankled with you also.

Bottom line on any of it is this is business for a lot of people. in the end the business justifies the methods. If the KJ has a packed place, the bar makes money and he sings every other song there's no supposed justification needed for that.

We can all say as singers we'd vote with out feet and not come back. Just as I do at shows that insist on a full dance tune between every singer. However if that show continues to make the bar money there is no "supposed justification" needed for it. What we do at shows is (hopefully) something that doesn't hurt business and seeing that from all angles is what makes this a great place to visit.

We can have 2 or 3 Karaoke places open in a common square on a single Friday night because we all cater to the different needs of different crowds. If we all ran shows the same we'd be screwed because folks who didn't like it, wouldn't go to any shows.

I suggest we acknowledge the is no one way to do things and the right thing is one that keeps your customers happy.

I wasn't going off on "you" so much as the idea of a customer (any customer!) thinking it was any of their business how much I (or any other KJ) make.
I still think it's none of the customers' business.
I apologize if you took it the wrong way. It wasn't meant to be personal.