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I gotta add, though - Geez, karyoker, lighten up. That last paragraph on your opening - what is that? Are you the messiah? Are you the next rap star?

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See/hear the serial version of Michael's karaoke novel, "Outro," at outronovel.blogspot.com

And that's my point entirely.

I'm not saying I have a listing of three pages of rules.

But yeah, don't swing my mics. It's DANGEROUS, and I don't want to be held liable for damage if the flippin' thing flys off the the end of the xlr connection. Also, it DAMAGES them.

Don't THUMP the mics or blow on them.

Don't stand in front of the F&n TV!

I mean, like Jam said, it's common sense stuff, but you know, you're going to have your drunk fools that think they're Robert Plant and swing their mics all over the place...

Just cracks me up seeing someone open a thread about rules and then tells others how good they are! Nobody needs to be told that over and over. Either you are or aren't. Talk about letting it rest!

Exactly--some drunken idiot drops the mic --OUT the door and no more singing
someone accidently drops the mic ..maybe a nice warning and an explanation
Common sense ...

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with all you say,

but the fact that you use a boss/subordinate analogy is telling.

A business/customer analogy is a more appropriate place from which to build a policy.

That said, and not referring to anything you said…

if the patron is to dumb/drunk to behave in a civil manner, the written rules won’t help much.

Those who misbehave are in the minority, so I would be careful about making the rest feel like they’re at “job” with a “boss”. They’re there to escape that.

JMHO.

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

yes it IS telling. The business world DOES apply. You run your business like one. That means a structure. And rules to fall back on when you have to ((unfortunately)) toe the line with a drunk or disorderly person.

If you have to go after them for damages done to your equipment because they were F&n around and broke your mic, poured a beer "accidently" on your mixer...

Rules exist for a reason... mostly to protect YOU. The owner of YOUR equipment.

Rule(s)......a four letter word when it comes to Wall Street, Banks, Credit Card companies, Oil Companies, Big Business....etc.......if a Kj ran the country....we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.... .....I'm actually serious.....once in a while, I can be.....not often though....

You know, I see rules as being there to cover your (@$%&#!). You don't need to shout about them, just have them, and occasionally let them be known.

Did I just read a "I know more than you so do it my way and you'll succeed" right after a diatribe of "don't have rules"? Sounds like someone giving the rules to live by.

I'm confused what message was intended to be conveyed.

personally......I prefer a pair of trousers......

Rules and guidelines provide structure and consistency for any event. Without baseline rules that are clear and easy to understand to everyone the event degenerates into chaos and a free for all.

Gotta have some basic rules and guidelines.

WHAT'S NOT NEEDED ARE OPRESSIVE AND OVER-BEARING RESTRICTIONS!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Yes, the business world DOES apply, which is exactly what I stated… “buisiness/customer“, not “boss/subordinate“.

Nothing about that is in conflict with your rules or whatever else you‘re saying here.

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

Kurt that sums it up nicely. I know how to deal with drunks or troublemakers. One NONO is you dont get in a drunks face and start spouting rules like a kid. Nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. You dont let them get that drunk to start with and at a certain point you dont sin g. I know how to say no and usually I am saying no over the mic with the music turned off. People respect my system and I hardly ever have trouble with drunks. For many years the only I lost was the grille off of a Shure Access 1. Many mic cords but that is why I charge more.

As I have stated in previous posts, do not &^&&& with my stuff and there is nobody there including the general crowd that has special priveledges concerning rotation (it covers all aspects not just order of rotation) I do tend to protect my regular singers.. But in our venues everybody takes care of everybody. Our crowd to singer ratio is about 10 to 1.. Believe me the singers are not the ones starting fights or drinking like it is after last call.

I usually have my van backed up near the front entrance and I have a rule. If you go out to fight dont screw with it and if you bleed on it you will be washing it off the next morning. I dont need to have it written in the books or broadcast it.

Adults and gentlemen have unwritten rules and usually dont laws for these things were passed down from generations and some laws come from the old country. The same applies to rules. If I have to tell you dont kick my dog then stay away.The look in my eyes will do all the talking.

I keep hearing this about losing control or chaos. In the military there are two types of officers. One type will not drink with you because they think that will cause you to lose your respect and then they have no authority. Then you have the types like JFK who will drink and fight with the troops and when he stands tall and gives a commnnd you better jump.

Maybe the title should stated regimentation or excessive rules.

regimentation

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You got to have rules or your singers think they can do what ever they want and it is fine....I myself like having rules and my singers now know what to expect...as stated in the front of my books " if you can not follow the rules..dont sing" is that simple..I dont have time to baby sit...and I can and will banned anyone who cant follow the guidelines that are set. I do have to say that in the last 8 yrs I only had to ban 4 people from singing.
Being drunk is no excuse to be rude and out of control. Rules are there to protect others..yourself plus my stuff.

Everything seems to boil down to losing control. I am sitting at the desk with a mute switch on all mics, control levels, both vocal and music. I have the ability and guts to say no, and years of experience with PR and dealing with drunks in many vocations including shore patrol.

Just how am I going to lose control?

I have done bikers parties and friend finder swinger parties. I did lose control at the swingers party. I had a gig in a Tejano Mexican night club. and could go to Mexico and do gigs. If you lack confidence due to inexperience then you need rules about every little detail. When you know how to work crowds and drunks then you can relax and have fun. Yes I have rules but they are very basic and I do not need them to maintain control. My crowds basically determine the format. It seems to me the only ones that are concerned with rules are the addicts that come in, could careless about my regs or crowd and pester me about when are they next, or have methods to cheat the rotation. I dont really need rules but it seems when those that need rules are introduced to our attitude they dont come back..

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well, if we were all the same, we'd have no need or reason for rules, Ollie.

Although my show's not near as regimented as Gem's, I DO have probably more rules than you do. And it has NOTHING tto do with control. Or the lack of it.

Some people just NEED to be told certain things... when you point out a fact for them to STOP a certain thing (such as continually talking in front of the monitor, or always wanting to jump up to sing with whoever the current singer is, you NEED a rule laid down in paper, on screen, and over the mic to tell them this isn't wanted.

Yes matt these are things that are understood by by karaoke singers worldwide. They do not to be applied to every bar in the world and not accepted as a ritualistic law of the gods. They are promulgated by addicts that the only reason they go into a bar is to sing. It is a religion to them and they could care less about others. Their ego is paramount.

I do not cater to these types and tire of hearing abought all their rules. Cabaret Karaoke provides professional entertainment. If the crowd wants we can provide a typical karaoke format. But we have the capabilities off providing formats for formal corporation or wedding parties. These arguments concerning rules only reflect lack of inexperience or confidence. They are sparse verbalisms of those trying to establish foundations for a new business or industry.

With many variads of experience and positive attitudes I do not need to question or discuss basic rules. They are totally ingrained and when strangers walk into my show they are impressed and realize that a professional is in charge and do not question authority or professionalism. My host or I do not need to control or deal with malcontents. We simply will not do it. Security will handle those things.

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the point is, they're NOT ingrained.

Some venues DO have a "every which way but loose" attitude... some like Jian's have a table type of rotation...

So yes, even the BASIC (i.e. UNDERSTOOD) rules do need to be listed as far as I'm concerned.

I didn't wake up one morning and suddenly decide this. It was because the regs were abusing the venue, and I had to put my foot down.

Back when my site was online, I actually had a lot of compliments from visitors (mostly in our country and in a couple of cases, the UK) on the rules page, screen shots, etc.

I don't think this post was to state that anarchy is the way it should be, but merely that obviously you should have a set of guidelines (not strict rules per se) and follow them during regular times but the unexpected can and always does happen. RULES are nothing but something to give you, as the host, a good false sense of security. Chaos ain't gonna happen, because you can control your show and handle problems when and if they arrise (not that often). The old phrase '"rules are meant to be broken" didn't come from nowhere. Write them out, post em, and you'll have some douche push the limit.

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In certain sections of this great nation there are certain rules that are ingrained in children before they attend school. I come from a generation when kindergartens were not needed because the mothers did not have to work too to feed everybody. A tot was ingrained with you respect others' property, under no circumstances do you show disrespect for a mother or a lady of the house. When wearing a hat you tipped it to the ladies. When in a fight you never needed help you fought one on one and never kicked a man when he was down. In those times a man could leave his horse and trappings at the rail and not a thief bothered them. Later there were times when a worker could park his pickup outside the bar with all his tools in the bed, a 30/30 carbine in the back window and nothing was touched. I could enumerate many ingrained rules but it is beyond the scope of this forum.

In any situation I deal with adults with this attitude and 99% of the time I receive respect and the rules are ingrained. For that remaining 1-5% there is the door and dont let it kick you in the 4e43. If you are in a crowd that needs government supervision or are not ingrained with family rules then I feel for you but in any means expect me to live by or respect your RULES..I live by the rules of my father and his father which are ingrained at a very young age and they pertain to all phases of life. I grew up in bars and these ingrained rules apply to karaoke or any other activity. The very fact that you need to present me with rules is a direct insult to my integrity, my mother and my forefathers. If you have degenerated back to this level then I will not patronize your show or even feel safe or bring my mother or lady folks into your bar.

Matt I luv ya man but please dont insult my integrity as a gentleman by presenting me with rules that I do not need to reminded of and my family does not need to regulate our integrity or honor. It is a slap in the face or at the very least an invitation to take off my hat, get off the bar stool and start swinging.

When I attend others' shows I show all those neighbors the utmost respect and dont bring my rules from my parts. I learned this by drinking in bars all over the world in different countries. The ingrained rules still applied and were recognized and appreciated by all countries. I have sang with mariachis and bands from all over. When as a guest I conformed with their rules and accepted their hospitality.

Yes I do have rules and they are few but upheld at any stakes. Please do not come to my show and expect me or my host to abide by your rules. My boss, the staff or about 100 people will show you the door. I do not run a typical karaoke show but provide entertainment to many. I have tried to explain this format many times but all I get in return is a big NONO and you must do things this way. I do not do things that way and if you disagree then dont attend my shows. My success is not determined by large rotations or catering to drunk karaoke singers and their precious needs. I provide professional entertainment and do not need drunk singers or immature attitudes. You run your show and I will run mine however if I attend your show I will show you the utmost courtesy and abide by your silly rules and not display childish tantrums.

It is a sad state of affairs when these rules are no longer ingrained but need to be enforced by a police state and now a government that wants to put everybody on a socialistic welfare state including those that fly by jets.

Government intervention did not solve the great depression. It was solved by supply and demand and capitalism. now tell me about rules. When it is all said and done WE will come to the aid of the world again and provide the leadership needed. This I can guarantee you and it will not be solved by rules or massive amounts of money.

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the rules are for MY show... not yours. Not Lonnies... when I visit his show, I abide by HIS rotation and rules... no biggie.

If you were to come to my show, then you would have to be faced with MINE. My House. My Rules. If that sad sort of affairs is too hard to be grasped, let me reiterate that I would NEVER say that someone else has to follow my rules when I attend another's show. If I don't like them, I've been known to take my cdgs, my wallet and my presence and leave.

I vote with my feet during those kind of situations.

So if you feel my rules are supposed to be ingrained, then you SHOULD be mature enough to go "yeah, yeah yeah... okay, nothing new here!" It should not be offensive to see what you think of as a basic common sense.

If it is, I highly recommend you don't come to my venues! !


Now granted, as of right now, I DON'T HAVE a show... just finally got a decent job in what I was trained in since the service, so now I CAN go hunting for gigs... as I was working temporary and working all seven days of the week at times.

Now it's more stable for me, so I can finally get Knightshow back up and running again.