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mckyj57
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 Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:51 am |
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stogie @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:22 pm wrote: You keep trying to tell me that the mics I use regularly are garbage. I can't comprehend that. If I've used these mics over and over and over with good results, then how can you tell me they're junk?
I just got a Flip Ultra video camera and I WILL be recording some songs. Most likely you'll be able to view them on Youtube to satisfy your curiosity about me and to find out more about these cheap, crappy mics I keep talking about.
My Samson Stage 5 mic has very good sound. I'm not crazy about how it uses 9 volt batteries up so fast, but it's a decent sounding mic that I got off ebay in pristine, new unused condition for $30. Since all of my wireless mics use 9 volt batteries, I've decided to get rechargeable 9 volts. So that won't be an issue.
I'll record some songs, one or two with each of my cheap crappy mics, the Audio Technica, Nady and the Samson and with the cheapo Nady SP-1 wired. Then you can decide for yourself. But it really doesn't matter at all. I've found some products that work great for me. If you or others don't think they are good enough or don't meet your standards, that's just fine. It doesn't affect me at all.
I've learned a lot from this forum and from other boards and I try to help other people and share what I've learned. We all have different ideas, standards, budgets, audiences and abilities that dictate our choices and our satisfaction with various products. My budget currently dictates that I don't have the budget to buy $400 and $500 microphones. I would feel no guilt handing someone my Nady DKW DUO and have done so without a single complaint.
As I said, you can do what you want. You can talk about what you want all day. If your standards are such that a Nady wired mic and all of its large amount of handling noise are just fine, knock yourself out. If you can tolerate that handling noise, I do wonder what you mean by "good results".
If you put out a statement like "there is no reason not to put out a wireless mic when you can use the Nady" I don't think you should expect other people to keep their mouth shut. There are plenty of reasons. Those microphones are not as good as better mics, period. They have lots of handling noise and poor off-axis response. There is a reason they are cheaper -- people won't buy them unless they are that cheap. One of the things you pay for is consistency -- there are probably some cheap mics that happen to be perfectly aligned and have good off-axis response. But you buy the next one of that type and it isn't the same.
I have used plenty of Nady mics, and they are not good at all. I have used plenty of VocoPro wireless mics, and they range from not good at all to mediocre. I have not used any wireless Samson mics, so can't say. If they are cheap, there is probably a reason they are cheap. But you never know -- sometimes you can find a gem. Usually they go up in price, so if they have gone up in price they may be one.
I will be happy to see your experiment, and will look forward to seeing you on YouTube.
_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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Lonman
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:24 am |
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stogie @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:40 am wrote: Now that there are plenty of decent, entry level wireless mics available for around $100 down to as low as $50, there is no reason to hand a customer a $400 Shure mic and there is no reason to NOT have wireless mics at a Karaoke show.
Sure there is, I do not want to use wireless mics. I have not found a cheaper mic - even the ones highly praised here - that I like the sound on. For feedback purposes I do not allow people to wander off stage, so a wireless would be like an invitation to do so. Plus I do not want to have to replace batteries regularly, I have other things that money can go towards. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Murray C
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:24 pm |
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stogie @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:22 pm wrote: Since all of my wireless mics use 9 volt batteries, I've decided to get rechargeable 9 volts..
Stogie, I would recommend that you use rechargeables which have a capacity similar to alkaline batteries.. ie. around 500mAh. Most NiMH 9V will only have a capacity of around 150-200 mAh and will not last long in a high-drain wireless mic application.
I have been using Lithium rechargeables from iPower and they work very well with my Shure wireless.
http://ipowerus.com/
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Karen K
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:48 pm |
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Location: Canuck, eh.
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I guess I see no reason to go and invest more money in mics when I have what is considered the industry standard, in the form of corded SM58s....wouldn't make sense to invest money in mics when the money could go toward music. If everybody that came to my show piXXed and moaned about having to use a corded mic, I might consider making an investment in some cheap cordless mics, but like I said above, most singers stand glued to the area in front of the monitor anyway.
Hubby uses a corded mic when he hosts - has it on a very short cord on a stand in front of him. I just prefer to use a cordless. Oh, I also use a Shure 58 headset occasionally, too, and I have a couple of those. I have a few Audix mics which are great, too, and I suppose I could spread out all the mics across the stage and tell people to choose the one they want...
Maybe pragmatism wins out here, but I see no reason to run out and buy cordless mics for singers who really couldn't care less about whether they have a cord or not. They all sound great ... that's what matters to them and to me.
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ripman8
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:20 pm |
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My turn. I bought into the "Shure phenomenon" and I purchased a brand new SM58 corded (has on/off switch on it) and I bought 2 Shure used wireless. Had issues with both wirelesses up front, have resolved them, they sound great and I will hand the beta out.
Mcky, I agree with what you are saying with my limited experience but you've made your point, everyone has an opinion, once you've stated yours clearly, let others think what they may, you aren't going to change their mind.
I plan on buying rechargables, you all will think I'm nuts but last spring/summer/fall, I had an Altec Lansing IM7 hanging from my 3 wheel golf cart and it ROCKS! It took a lot of punishment but man did it make golf fun. My point being, I bought 2 sets of rechargeable for it, used it nearly 100 rounds and my batteries could last 2 4 hour rounds plus pitchers of beer afterward. I am already ahead in $$$ going with these up front vs regular batteries.
I have a microphone related question, what do you all do with your mics when they aren't in the singers hands? I purchased a mic stand for my corded mic, I just bought two table mic stands for my wireless mics to set in.
By the way Lonman, I purchased tthe Carvin today.
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Dr Fred
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:50 pm |
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Well many reasons to not use wireless mics.
1. You have to pay a lot more for comparable quality mics.
2. If your venue is small there is not much need.
3. Less chance of walking in front of speakers and causing feedback.
4. Batteries cost money, and upkeep time.
5. Reliablity. I have been at several shows when the wireless mics failed. Only time I have seen a wired mic fail in a show was due to a bad chord.
6. Potential for interferience from other radiowaves.
7. People turn them off and the next singer may not turn them on (or know if they are on or off)
8. If chorded mics are good enough for most touring bands (except for some Stadium Rock Bands) it is good enough for karaoke.
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Marble
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:52 pm |
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Sorry to Hyjack a thread, but this mic quality thing is bugging me, especially since I'm looking to upgrade my equipment so . . . mckyj57 I'll take you up on your challenge... I'm hovering towards buying cheaper dual radio mics, so this will be the final test to see if i'm making the right choice.
I have a £7 Skytec
a Sennheiser £45 lead mic (Can't quite remember what exactly at the moment)
A cheap radio mic (again I Can't quite remember what exactly at the moment)
a SM58 Lead Mic
and a Sennheiser Ew100 G2 (radio mic) which is about 5 years old. and i think cost £399
Available for this experiment.
What do you feel would be a fair test? I suggest the same song, using different mics throughout, and seeing if the difference can be spotted... but then some may argue that the quality of the mic is affected by the mixing... so perhaps it should be several recordings of the same song?
any suggestion on the type of song as well? Uptempo? slow? Rap? Power ballad etc?
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Lonman
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:03 pm |
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Marble @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:52 pm wrote: Sorry to Hyjack a thread, but this mic quality thing is bugging me, especially since I'm looking to upgrade my equipment so . . . mckyj57 I'll take you up on your challenge... I'm hovering towards buying cheaper dual radio mics, so this will be the final test to see if i'm making the right choice.
I have a £7 Skytec
a Sennheiser £45 lead mic (Can't quite remember what exactly at the moment)
A cheap radio mic (again I Can't quite remember what exactly at the moment)
a SM58 Lead Mic
and a Sennheiser Ew100 G2 (radio mic) which is about 5 years old. and i think cost £399
Available for this experiment.
What do you feel would be a fair test? I suggest the same song, using different mics throughout, and seeing if the difference can be spotted... but then some may argue that the quality of the mic is affected by the mixing... so perhaps it should be several recordings of the same song?
any suggestion on the type of song as well? Uptempo? slow? Rap? Power ballad etc?
I suggest you use the same eq settings for all mics, just make it flat (all mic eq's dead center - no gain no cuts). _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:50 pm |
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:18 pm
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Reasons to use CHEAP wireless mics--the limbo, conga lines, lap dances.... 
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mckyj57
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:44 pm |
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ripman8 @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:20 pm wrote: My turn. I bought into the "Shure phenomenon" and I purchased a brand new SM58 corded (has on/off switch on it) and I bought 2 Shure used wireless. Had issues with both wirelesses up front, have resolved them, they sound great and I will hand the beta out.
I don't hold these opinions because I am above making the mistakes -- I made them and am hoping to save others from making them like I did. If I had bought the Shure to begin with I would have saved about $450.00 in cheap wireless mics -- enough to buy another Shure. If I had two of those, I would have all I need. Quote: Mcky, I agree with what you are saying with my limited experience but you've made your point, everyone has an opinion, once you've stated yours clearly, let others think what they may, you aren't going to change their mind.
For every time someone claims those mics are good, I am going to provide a counterpoint. The constant raising of the same old topics in this forum proves to me that you can't just let misinformation stand. People will not have read my previous comments. So you can expect me to give my opinion if someone makes the same contention that Nady and VocoPro wireless mics are "decent". No, they are not. Or so say I. Are AKG WMS40 and Sennheiser Freeport "decent"? Well more so. But they aren't pro mics, and you will be happy you spent the money on Shure. We could probably do with an FAQ or some sticky topics on some of these things. Quote: I plan on buying rechargables, you all will think I'm nuts but last spring/summer/fall, I had an Altec Lansing IM7 hanging from my 3 wheel golf cart and it ROCKS! It took a lot of punishment but man did it make golf fun. My point being, I bought 2 sets of rechargeable for it, used it nearly 100 rounds and my batteries could last 2 4 hour rounds plus pitchers of beer afterward. I am already ahead in $$$ going with these up front vs regular batteries.
Depends on the equipment. Some require a higher amount of voltage in line with alkaline, and they will need Lithium or other cells that come closer to 1.5v or the rechargeables won't work well. Quote: I have a microphone related question, what do you all do with your mics when they aren't in the singers hands? I purchased a mic stand for my corded mic, I just bought two table mic stands for my wireless mics to set in.
I don't use wireless much, but when I do I keep them by me on the table.
The best solution I saw was in Buffalo, at Skip's show. He had a board with holes drilled and foam on top of it. You just set the mics in the hole.
_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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mckyj57
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:02 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:24 pm
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Location: Cocoa Beach
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Marble @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:52 pm wrote: Sorry to Hyjack a thread, but this mic quality thing is bugging me, especially since I'm looking to upgrade my equipment so . . . mckyj57 I'll take you up on your challenge... I'm hovering towards buying cheaper dual radio mics, so this will be the final test to see if i'm making the right choice.
I have a £7 Skytec
a Sennheiser £45 lead mic (Can't quite remember what exactly at the moment)
A cheap radio mic (again I Can't quite remember what exactly at the moment)
a SM58 Lead Mic
and a Sennheiser Ew100 G2 (radio mic) which is about 5 years old. and i think cost £399
Available for this experiment.
What do you feel would be a fair test? I suggest the same song, using different mics throughout, and seeing if the difference can be spotted... but then some may argue that the quality of the mic is affected by the mixing... so perhaps it should be several recordings of the same song?
Sounds like a good range of mics. I would try the cheap radio mic, the cheap wired mic (don't know Skytec but sounds like the Nady of the UK), the SM58, and the Sennheiser radio mic. Put the songs up as mics 1-4 (in random order), and have people guess which is which. If you could hand hold them and not put them in a stand it would be nice. Quote: any suggestion on the type of song as well? Uptempo? slow? Rap? Power ballad etc?
I would think probably slow and definitely not rap. It would be nice to get something that had a range to it, as low notes are where the poor mics really fall down.
_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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stogie
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:20 pm |
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Ok, two things.
First, I just used my Audio Technica 200 series mic at one of my shows I do at senior facilities. It worked great. More sensitive and hotter than the Nady that I usually use. Very good tone, very clear sound. It's about $100 retail, of course I paid much less. The handset is very solid feeling. Good battery life. I can't imagine anyone not liking this mic. Some will call it cheap junk I'm sure. To me it's a very solid and decent performing product. I would definitely buy another one.
Second, I'm surprised that everyone doesn't think wireless mics are something good and desirable. I really like them and figured everyone would too. I see that's not the case. I really like that there is no cord. It's freedom. I much prefer wireless to wired mics. However, I keep learning over and over, that everyone thinks differently and lots of folks don't agree with my ideas of what is good or what isn't.
I hope some day a smart microphone manufacturer will come out with a base with transmitters that you can screw into wired mics that will allow you to convert them into wireless and do it for a reasonable price. Then I can turn my Sennheiser e835s into wireless mics. I would never use another wired mic again.
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Lonman
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:56 am |
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stogie @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:20 pm wrote: I hope some day a smart microphone manufacturer will come out with a base with transmitters that you can screw into wired mics that will allow you to convert them into wireless and do it for a reasonable price. Then I can turn my Sennheiser e835s into wireless mics. I would never use another wired mic again.
They already do
http://www.azdencorp.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=15
But you not only need to buy the transmitter (plugin to the mic) but also the reciever making the total price in the price range of a decent Shure wireless to begin with. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Marble
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:07 am |
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mckyj57 @ Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:02 am wrote:
I would think probably slow and definitely not rap. It would be nice to get something that had a range to it, as low notes are where the poor mics really fall down.
Okey dokey, I've had my wisdom teeth out a week a go  , so I'm trying to find a shorter song and one with a lower range, I'm open to suggestions, but here is a few I can think off with a lower range...
These Boots are made for walking - Nancy Sinatra
Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas/ Dr Hook / Sam Cooke
Years from now - Dr Hook
Under the boardwalk - Drifters
Your sixteen - Ringo Starr
Lonman suggested that we use the same eq for all mics, I would suggest that I set the mixer according to the mic and also add a little reverb...
I'm happy to hold the mic, so handling noise should pick up if there is any.
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mckyj57
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:07 am |
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Marble @ Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:07 am wrote: mckyj57 @ Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:02 am wrote:
I would think probably slow and definitely not rap. It would be nice to get something that had a range to it, as low notes are where the poor mics really fall down.
Okey dokey, I've had my wisdom teeth out a week a go , so I'm trying to find a shorter song and one with a lower range, I'm open to suggestions, but here is a few I can think off with a lower range... These Boots are made for walking - Nancy Sinatra Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas/ Dr Hook / Sam Cooke Years from now - Dr Hook Under the boardwalk - Drifters Your sixteen - Ringo Starr Lonman suggested that we use the same eq for all mics, I would suggest that I set the mixer according to the mic and also add a little reverb... I'm happy to hold the mic, so handling noise should pick up if there is any. works for me. I don't think eq matters too much, though it would be easiest and probably most telling to set it flat.
This should be fun!
_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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Marble
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:06 am |
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Under the boardwalk it is... now I understand the reasoning for setting it flat and i agree it would probably be easier to tell... but no reasonable karaoke show would do that... So i'll do it with some fx and eq and if we don't find that to be a fair test, i'll redo the experiement later on.
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Marble
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:43 am |
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Might be a small delay... I've recoded the songs on to mini disc, only to find i'm out of CDR's to record it onto before uploading it to the computer.... I'll do my best to get it done as soon as possible
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:57 am |
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Stogie, I love wireless mics as they give me the freedom to dance and sing at the same time. We have singers who want to croon to their girlfriend, work the crowd, sit on a barstool when they sing, etc. and it is a small room so we don't lose track of them. And I wasn't joking about the limbo, etc. We just had that last Sat and even the singer was going under the stick as she sang. Wireless mics are FUN. So some choose FUN over SOUND. We provide both options and like you, I have yet to be convinced that what could be the less than exquisite sound ovverides the fun option. And I'm not buying a $400 mic for the limbo.
We keep ours turned on. Used to turn them off but it wasn't that big a battery save and it confused people. We also coach the singer to make sure it is on. One place we went had a beautiful woman hand the mic and take it from you with a gracious smile. Now that was service.
I can't wait for the experiment.
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stogie
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:13 am |
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Lonman, I said a reasonable price. If I can buy a dual wireless mic system for between $50-$100, then I would think they could manufacture the same basic thing without a microphone cartridge for about the same price and that should be more profitable for them than manufacturing and selling a regular wireless mic system. Heck, with all the wired mics out there, a company could make a fortune doing this.
I plan on doing microphone surgery soon to see how hard it is to transfer a mic element from one mic to another. If that goes well and the operation is a success, I won't have to wait for the manufacturers to come out with what I want, I'll make it myself in a crude back engineered way. It's not my first choice, but ya do what ya gotta do.
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LondonLive
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:56 am |
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Stogie, do you happen to know which head your Samson has on it?
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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye
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