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I sing the first ten and after the second, I put the tip jar up..

Unless on one else wants to sing yet I don't go first. It's easier for me to adjust things when I'm listening and not singing. I almost always put myself in that first round somewhere to fill it out though.

And more than half the time that's it for me. But hey... I'm guilty of inserting myself occasionally for no other reason than to impress someone. Not often. And never between 11 and 1... the peak hours.

I don't think there is any reason for the host to sing other than that they want to. What if the host doesn't sing or can't sing?

stogie

you're so right, I believe!

And the one excuse I've always "enjoyed" the most is this - "when I sing, everyone realizes that we have reached the top of the rotation"

I've always asked, would making an announcement in that regard be any less effective? And does it really matter if you're at the top, middle or bottom of the rotation?

As a singer if I am one of the early ones in the rotation, it's nice to know that my next turn should be coming up if they don't use a whiteboard or other method of showing who's next. I apply the golden rule to how I run my shows so that I can be as fair as possible.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

It's very simple and easy to say "ok, give it up for John, <pause>Bob, c'mon up here and after Bob we have Sally and Sue".

Then when Bob finishes you say "put your hands together for Bob, thank you Bob, Sally is already up here and ready to go and after Sally we have Sue and then Rodney". No need for a white board. If you're at the same place more than once and you do what I just said, people will get the idea.

I also look out at the crowd and try to get eye contact. I will also sometimes walk out into the crowd and tell the person who is next and maybe even the one after that who they come after.

Singers should never be completely in the "dark" when it comes to the rotation.

If no means of keeping tracks is available, it is always hardest for those who sang at the very beginning to know how many singers were added to the rotation after they sang.

However.... a KJ who sings at the top of the rotation as the only indicator that the rotation is repeating, must be awfully lazy. Frankly, though, I think we know that there is a bigger motivator than laziness for doing so - any other means of keeping the audience informed about the rotation is no where near as enjoyable (to most) as taking a turn singing!

Yes I like to sing, love it in fact. I nearly always sing the first song, always a very familiar one but not the same one each show. While I did the sound check with music prior to the show I like to be sure I have my computer inputs set properly, the stage monitor is set right, and the mix is generally right. People will forgive you sounding bad making mistakes on yourself so take advantage of that.

Last night I found that someone had futzed with the stage monitor between setup and my singing time and fiddled with the EQ on it and I caught it during my song. No it's not the norm and it's indeed the first time I found a problem with it during the first song of the evening.

I also think it's just good form, but again that may just be me.

Okay... I'm a newbie, but there are some reasons that I do sing in the rotation. IMHO my job is #1 to sell drinks. That means putting on an entertaining show. In the club where I KJ, I sang there for almost a year before taking over as KJ. Singers are important too, and I work hard to make sure everyone gets a fair rotation, but once again my primary job is to keep the club busy.

In this particular venue, those who sing spend less than those who hang for the party and many of those like/request to hear me sing. I use my top of the rotation slot to keep things going. If it's dragging or too genre lopsided, then I'll do something to make the flow better. If we're stacked up with good singers that keep people there, then sure, I'll skip myself. It's not about me, or me getting to sing. It's about a good show. If there are a bunch of marginal singers in the lineup, I'll sing to keep the quality up. That may sound like ego, but I've been a performer for more years than I'd like to admit- if I didn't sing well at this point then something would be wrong. If there are 10 people in the lineup that make people's eyes roll because they butcher a song, I think if the KJ is capable of performing well they have a duty to make things more entertaining by using their slot to liven things up.

What drives me crazy is a KJ that thinks they can sing, but aren't all that, and use their slot as an ego boost. If your singing helps to sell more drinks, then IMHO that is just part of the job. If there are plenty of good performers that put on a good show--- get out of the way and get them up as much as possible. btw- a side note, I don't think someone has to be a good singer to be valuable to the show. It's all about fun. Some of the club's favorite performers don't have the greatest pipes, but they have a great time singing, pick crowd pleasing songs and keep everyone having a great time.

Point is, I think there could be valid reasons for a KJ to sing in the lineup. Not that those reasons would fit in every situation. In another venue, I might not sing at all if that's what made the show better and the crowd happier. As important as it is to be fair to everyone that signs up, the bottom line is that the reason a club hires KJ's is to keep people entertained and thus sell more drinks.

ADR

Okay

We have a KJ suggesting that there are people who want to hear him sing. But...it's actually a new reason because that KJ asserts that there is a strong profit motive behind his singing - his singing is so entertaining that it will result in people spending more money. And, of course, that's what the show is all about when you "get down to it". I don't know if I should go back and edit my OP to include that reason?

And while most of us will agree that the job of the KJ is to host an entertaining show and maximize the Z tape, I am dubious about how much more anyone will spend, under any circumstances, because of a KJ including themselves in every rotation?

My partner, who is an extraordinary singer, rarely sings at his show. What about that, you may wonder, is noteworthy? Well, he and several of the other "original" KJ"s around here started off as performers at one of the most successful, original karaoke companies around. They were paid to entertain. So, while he started off as a paid entertainer at karaoke shows, he doesn't see a need to sing in every rotation at his own show.

Anyway, lets say, for discussion purposes, that there are five rotations during the course of a four hour show. If the KJ sings the first song of the night, I would think it fair to say that the show has yet to really "begin": people are just starting to settle in, many have yet to arrive!

But that's okay... the KJ will get four more turns to sing during the evening based upon the above scenario.

and HOW MANY extra people will there be in the house SOLELY waiting for those four songs to be sung and/or how many extra drinks will be purchased SOLELY because of those four songs offered by the KJ?

Its not the number of songs--its keeping up the energy level. And that can be contagious so others sing more exciting songs. And people tend to stay more for excitment than boring.

The whole idea of "rotations" doesn't really apply for me. I add new singers as they turn in slips, in the "old singer-new singer-old singer" fashion, so there is never really a "new" rotation. Therefore, there isn't really a "top of the rotation", except at the beginning of the night. This is common procedure for a good many KJs (not to suggest that it's the way it SHOULD be done, but just saying that's the way I do it).

Therefore, on the very rare occasions that I DO sing at my shows, it's kind of at random times. I usually use only upbeat music for my fill, so that somewhat counteracts the "ballad hell" that can sometimes occur.

Bottom line- I don't sing at my shows if there are more than 5 people waiting. Even if there are less, I usually don't (doesn't happen more than a couple of times a year).

LL

I get what you say about energy being contagious and i concur

if, however, you're implying that one person, singing one song once an hour is the sole source of the contagion at a venue, i have my doubts! There is, in psychology, the concept of social contagions and there must be other singers who get the crowd going. I'd rather rely upon them, than myself, to get the enthusiasm kindled (or rekindled)!

and the need to sing every hour to raise the energy level would be a description of a "roller-coaster" environment I wouldn't want to host in on a regular basis. When I and others have discussed how a kj can raise the energy level of a room, I never considered that challenge would be faced on an ongoing basis at any show!

Lastly, IMHO, I am quite suspect that one person, singing once an hour, will have that much effect on the bottom line. There are usually several contributors and factors that create the energy found at a show, and sometimes it is not even the KJ!

Eric, some day you will be able to analyze scientifically a forumla for creating magic but it eludes me at the moment. No offense intended. I admire your quest and you give a lot to think about but sometimes it frustrates me.

This IS beginning to sound like a regional thing to me. Until our show, we have never been to one where the KJ didn't sing to begin each round. As mentioned, we went (and still make the 6 hour round trip to return periodically) to a show where there were two hosts who each sang two songs per round. Yes, the singers would throw fits but the non-singing audience loved it and this show is still running over a decade later. It has excitement.

As the microphone experiment is going on, I was inspired last night to experiment on my own. Every one else may skip--attempt here to provide every possible detail for our analyst-- There are two many variables to make it scientific enough for Eric but here is the situation. We are at a small bar with 50 chairs/stools in a town with a population of 4200. The bar owner had fired the Saturday karaoke host months before due to poor attendance. Ironically one of the complaints was that he was singing too many songs to his new girlfriend. The bar owner wanted a band and was convinced karaoke wouldn't work on a Saturday because all the karaoke people came to the Friday night show that has been running 7 years. Plus when he stopped Saturday night karaoke the bar next door started having it. My boyfriend's son was staying with us and he is an aspiring singer/songwriter and he got an audition to be the live entertainment. I invested in the equipment for him and his Dad to run a combo live show with karaoke to follow and after the first trial night we were hired on the spot for $100/night. The son promply hightailed it out of there and I was now paying off a nice karaoke set-up.

So we convinced the bar owner to give us a try to build things up and sold our soul for a pittance, tips, pizza and drinks--and experience. We worked up from 2 singers to an average of 11 to 15. We had to sing ourselves a lot when we had two singers but once we get five I drop out and after a few more come the boyfriend drops out. We were praised for this yet people still asked why we weren't singing because they wanted to hear certain songs. We usually have about 20 in the bar which is alot better than two but isn't filling it like the Friday hosts. Also things tended to wind down early. We just started pounding the pavement with flyers and seeking out other jobs last week. Wanted to be legit with business licenses, etc. and have our act together before we started doing that.

Last night we got the word that we weren't needed next week as they got a band. (one time thing, we hope--a local favorite that is travelling through.) So I said to H with it. We had been following every "rule" and we were stalling. So I decided to sing every round regardless. I am not a good singer so people would never come to hear my voice but they like the SONGS I do. So I did every exciting song I knew. "Mi Vida Loca," "Hot Hot Hot," "I'm So Excited," "La Bamba," etc. Others who usually hold back because its mainly a country/oldies crowd starting putting in "Radar Love,," "Smooth," and the like. We went the whole 5 hours and got praise after praise about what a fun evening it had been and how much they appreciated us, etc. The bar tendress gave us $40 of her own money to buy more new songs.

I am starting to get the picture that in our area, as long as the rotation isn't over 45 mintues to an hour, singers don't mind the KJ singing and it does help make you one of them. Once it is longer, it is unseemly for the host to take up a space. If the host is a talented singer who can work a crowd it does add to the show and gives the non-singers a break also. It is true that there is not karaoke without the singers but there is no place for the singers to have karaoke if there isn't an audience for the show. The two go hand in hand. If a region has a lot of young energetic or at least passable singers then the host may be able to just keep that going with encouragement, etc. If you get "He Stopped Loving Her Today" put in 3 times a night by 80 year olds spitting peanuts on your mic, then you may need to jazz things up.

And yes, I realize that I did not sufficiently prove to you that me singing 5 exciting songs caused the others to put in more exciting songs but it did seem to jumpstart things. Also the boyfriend is a good singer and he did a lot of his most requested songs also. Could have been that. Could have been the moon.

LL

I never suggested nor explicitly said that the hosts are not topping off the rotation in S Florida. Like everywhere else, they love to sing and can't wait to grab the mic and start things "rolling". This thread was started to get an "honest" response as to why that is? I don't fault any honest response - it's just that I believe there is only one honest response - "I, the KJ, like to sing; it's my show and, at very least, I'll kick things off!"

I've already dispelled the legitimacy, for example, of the explanation that sound checks by the kJ are a necessary reason for him/her singing the first song (see Tech Forum as to "sound checks" thread)

Furthermore, have I indicated that I have unfortunately had to sing way too much at my shows because of a lack of singers.

There is, perhaps, only one "regional difference" I wonder about? It has been my observation/evaluation that in my area few non-singing attendees at shows come to be entertained by the KJ, or any other singer, unless they came with a singer.

While, Karaoke can be enjoyable to listen to, I am fairly confident in saying that most people in my area who aren't accompanying a singer and who are not singers themselves, came to the venue for reasons other than karaoke, And while karaoke might enhances or doesn't detract from that experience, they came to the venue, IMHO, because:

- they like the "feel" of the place (atmosphere/ambience)
- they're like the crowd and are looking for comradarie
- they are looking to "meet someone" and the venue offers that opportunity
- they like the food and/or drinks
- they come to play darts, pool, foosball, etc
- they like the prices

To be really really honest I get more clapping and recognition dancing and I am not joking.

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Um, I believe I said that very simply?

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Bama said it short and simply.

But believe it or not, I DON'T like to sing more than a few a night. I'd rather dance. And we do have some people who come just to listen and dance.

What I am saying is--I like to analyze things like what makes a flyer effective or what kinds of songs should we buy for this venue. But a host's decision when to sing or not sing or what to sing is based on their experience and gift for knowing how to keep their particular show rolling. That is the magic we all aspire to and there is no set answer for every venue. So if it works for someone, why question it or ascribe a selfish motive to it?

Oh--Karyoker--your point was taken--it was just so subtle compared to the expected blow to the head by a hammer that I let it go by.

Should have said a string of anyone ANY AGE singing one dreary song after the other. We have a 79 year old lady who has come and danced to the rockers at our show and I'm no spring chicken myself.

Just because I want a break sometimes (besides the other reasons).

Last night I sang every rotation, but I only sang a total of 3 songs in a 6 hour show.
That is typical for my weekend shows 3 or 4 songs a night in 5-6 hours.

On my weekday shows of 3 hours I usually sing between 2-4 songs.

Take out the first song for a mic/soundcheck, that comes to 5 minutes every 3 hours.

When I have a busy show going I am working hard keeping everyone else at the show happy.

I could take a break every 2 hours and run a few dance songs and go out for a smoke or whatever. I don't go out for breaks, I don't even need bathroom breaks for most of the shows since I dont drink much. For me singing is my break from my show.

I knew a show where the DJ did not sing when it got busy, but he did disappear for a 15 minute cig break in the middle of his show.

Every job allows breaks, even for "Professionals" Why should karaoke be any different.