Karaoke Forums

I am just starting up a Karaoke/DJ service and I was going to use a laptop to do my shows. But I was sent to a website http://www.karaokeantipiracyagency.com/ they say you can't rip your CDG's to your hard drive as it violates the copyright. If you want to do this you have to get a new licence from the manufacturer. But now I am told that there is a way to do this legally without the extra fee? Can anyone give me the definitive answer. I would love to use my computer but I don't want to pay more fees.

there's no definitive answer. It's never been tested in court for those kjs that own the discs and have a 1:1 ratio, either on CDR or computer.

The manus say the "Fair Use Act" doesn't apply since it's for commercial means, not personal.

Also, there's been some conversation on here that Canadians ARE covered under their version of the Fair Use...

No fees that I know of. There's no (current) enforcement agency.

There is a fee in the UK, for Ripping CDg's. . . but the people who charge it, don't fully understand the law themselves (well they didn't. . . but quickly had phone calls from KJ's who did) and are ammending their policy as we talk.

click this for more information.

Canadians are covered by AVLA (when fees are paid) for audio, CDGs are not covered.

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Seems like the UK has a fee for everything
I don't know if it still applies but back when I was younger I remember them having a fee for just owning a TV, Radio, or any receiving device. They used to have vans that would drive around and scan for the oscillator frequency's of various equipments and when found checked to see if you were paying the TAX!!!

No wonder we broke away from them.

Sheesh
L.W.

That's funny LW and EXACTLY what I was thinking! Shame on us, that was before our time.

Concerning Canada, is there something I should know as I am going thru the process now of becoming a resident of Ontario.

In the US, you can rip them, so long as you maintain the original copy.

Media, after purchased, can be changed format as long as it is purchased by you for your personal use. If you sold a CDG for example, you must destroy your electronic copy. You can not distribute it or make multiple copies for use at the same time. So if its you and a partner, in theory, you most both have original copies of your music if playing at different venues at the same time.

So the short answer is yes you can, just keep your originals.

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pretty sure(99.9), this isn't true......people do what they feel comfortable with, like steeling a loaf of bread, rather than someone's car.......will you get busted for format shifting and using in public, or going completely to a pirated(to some of you, pardon my french... ) hard drive.....probably not........from what I've seen and heard to date....it's been only, a matter of ethics, and individual conscience......jmho

yeapppp... as I said, there's no CASE LAW DEFENDING or accusing anyone of any wrong doing on record... but the way the Fair Use Act reads, no we don't have permission OTHER than for personal use.

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sorry ollie....this is just an opinion by a group of people(could be just one person,,, ).....they have no weight in the judicial system......

I'm still confused. The question is, can you rip your cdg's to hard drive, maintain the original copy and use the hard drive to conduct public performance (ie:for pay karaoke shows) legally? Just one show, not multiple ones in the same time slot.

I do realize that there is no enforcement agency, but is it illegal?

I guess I really need to do research for a definitive answer huh?

Well it may not be technically legal - at least for commercial use, but I do run computer & will make sure everything on the computer I have a corresponding disc for - PER computer.

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why do people keep quoting IPJUSTICE as proof? It's just some people that have checked with lawyers who have offered opinions.

Lawyers with opinions are NOT a valid defense! !

Now I happen to AGREE with their position, but I'm under no impression I'm still 100 technically LEGAL the way my computer setup is!

And that was my question... legal? I am in the process of transferring all karaoke to hard drive...my company owner is wary of doing this because of the legalities. But I am sick to death of replacing damaged and stolen cd's. We have so many disc's, that I use a dj case packed with the cd envelopes (two disc's to an envelope). No matter how diligent I am, some how every now and then someone grabs a few of the envelopes and gets themselves some karaoke! Last week someone 'grabbed' 10 of the envelopes (on two different nights) and now I am having to replace 20 karaoke discs... this is not cheap as you know!!

I really want to stay completely legal since my company is well-known and considered the best by most in this neck of the woods. We have a high profile and I don't blame my company owner for wanting to stay on the up 'n up. This is a loved job for me, but I won't starve if I lose my job, however my boss...would lose everything...this business has been his entire livelihood for the past 25 yrs. Sad part is, he is no where near being able to retire. For the love of money? NOT! It's for the love of music!

From what I gather online it's illegal. But I can't be sure.. geez.. I hate legaleeze...

What is AMCOS? I see it related to APRA...and that is Australian. Is there no written law regarding karaoke in the US?

In 15 years I have only had 2 discs stolen & I think those were from a disgrutled host that I got rid of. Where do you set your discs up at that is so easy for the people to grab them?
Damaged discs, which brands? Sound Choice & Chartbuster have replacement policies. 2 discs per envelope - while envelopes (cd sleeves) aren't very good storage devices to begin with, 2 per is even worse.

Anyway as long as you don't do any extra curricular downloading & everything on your computer is back'd up by a disc (PER computer) then you should be fine. It's when you start buying preloaded hard drives without any discs or doing multiple shows with only one set of originals that you become a really bad girl! Also as long as the club you play isn't putting up any red flags by not paying their publishing fees (ascap, bmi, sesac) then there shouldn't be much worry at all. If the clubs aren't paying, then you might worry a little more.

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Those sleeves are not the best, I agree. These are the plastic ones, with two sleeves per envelope, front and back. But what other way to carry them? CD books are too cumbersome and I'd have to have an awful lots of those books to store 700 disc's. And yes, where I have to set up...the limited space...is a problem because I have no room other than my table, that faces the crowd, to set my case on.

There is one venue where I know the owner stopped paying his ascap. He actually put us on 'leave' for a few weeks when ascap came by and checked him out so that he could say he didn't have any music other than non-cover bands.

Oh and as far as disc's that get damaged... that isn't nearly the headache as the stolen ones. Yes, we can get replacements..

I want to be computerized though... and not have to worry about any of that any longer!

replacement policies are only as good as long as the company is producing the discs. You know as well as I how the discs go out of production, rights reversed, etc...

No, I agree with Lisah's position, that's why I went computer as well.

But again, as long as you own your discs, you should have NOTHING to fear. (I've seen fool karaoke companies say "Since I went computer, I don't need these discs anymore!" and they SELL them for a mere pitiance of what they originally cost the companise... drives me crazy, I'm going, "DUDE! YOU IDIOT!!!") This is where the IPJustice arguement makes sense, and if you EVER have to defend your actions, they're all valid points.

But by no means is it permission granted!!!

I'm in this with my eyes wide open, and never hid this. I argued plenty with the powers that sorta be (Manus), and they disliked what I was doing, but never served me with any kind of cease and decist!

The American Copyright Law is really confusing. From what I gather, the karaoke manus don't have the full rights even to their own stuff. They only have PERMISSION to reproduce the words, and then they have to have a seperate licence for the lyrics (the Sync rights).

And SC has had songs that were completely paid for and agreed upon yanked when the original artist got a hair up their beehive. Garth Brooks, Bruce Springsteen, Heart, Sting, Sammy Hagar, Van Halen, all had rights granted to songs only to say (later), "No!"...