Karaoke Forums

Didn't want to hijack Bill H's topic by starting the smoking/non-smoking debate again but his and Karyoker's comments remind me that things aren't as they were. When I was young and my alcoholic father was pulled over for drunk driving the police would bring him home, with great sympathy for my mother. Now society doesn't want to see these people continually let off until they kill someone. So it is unlikely that many of what are considered bar-killing regulations are going to be repealed. The police are hanging out around the bars ready to snap up people and where we are at least 2 customers plus the bar tendress have reported being stopped and questioned while WALKING home. So it is not just a smoking issue.

The economy is also keeping the addicts from having a paycheck to blow. It seems that when given a choice of who to lay off, the one who's addictions interfere with their work are the first to go.

Yet I don't see the need for people to go out, socialize, get loose, have a drink, sing, dance, etc. completely going away. We just have a different set of circumstances. It is adapt or die. So how can bars adapt? Offer more food? I see free dance lessons being advertised but if people don't want to drink and drive, how does the bar make money once the people are there?

Just throwing this out to see if anyone else has thought about it.

I've seen three bars in the area go out of business. part of it, though, is that they are being hit my casinos. In the Puget Sound area, the Snoqualmie Casino just openened. Needless to say, they have a well-stocked bar.

Sure they can. My home room is actually doing better than we thought it would. But it's a younger group.

This is a fact. People in their 20s are much less rebellious than their parents and accept new laws easier. Most of them don't allow smoking in their apartments already, and although they would rather smoke inside the bar they're just shrugging their shoulders and going along with it.

They've never known a time with light DUI laws. As adults they've always taken cabs or had designated drivers. So that's not a change or a big deal either.

The problems I'm seeing are in rooms that rely on older clientele. Especially the "rebels" from the 60s and 70s. You don't change the rules on them without repercussions!

Certainly gambling revenues have allowed some rooms to keep their drink prices artificially low in the past here in Oregon. There will be some changes made if they are going to survive.

And many won't.

I've found in my town (with 6 active bars - two just closed - one is always changing owners and has never found a good niche, and the other for tax reasons) that each of the bars tries to leech off another's success. In that I mean, if one has karaoke and it does well, another will have it. The problem with that, of course, is it thins the crowd. There are enough options that each should (and I've encouraged this) have their own signatures.

1) We got one place that was closed down at the end of the year in a battle with the city because they attracted too many people. It came down to capacity and bathrooms. That issue's been resolved and this place is reopening March 1st. I love this place, they bring in sweet bands that attract from far and wide and the other bars reap the bennies from it. They do karaoke in their front room on nights other bars don't (i.e. me). They make the town 'cool' and can pretty much do whatever they want and it's going to be a hit. They also have really good food.

2) Another place used to have karaoke on Fri and Sat, then because of ASCAP/BMI issues stopped. This place has since become the pool and dart hall (the pool on the owner's doing and the darts on my suggestion). It's only one of two bars in town with dart boards, but there are 200+ people in the area on the dart league. There is no 'dart house'. Give 'em one!!!! This place has found it's niche too, even if the owner is an xss. They serve bar food.

3) My home bar is probably consicered a dive by the town's standards and even though the advertise good food, they really only have Schwann's and microwave burgers/dogs. The owner allows patrons to bring in food from other places. Besides the legendary karaoke on Wed and Fri, this bar has the most experienced and friendly bar staff in town. So many bars discount the affect the bar staff has on building and maintaining a base. I stay here because it's 'safe'. People of all walks are welcomed.

4) Another place opened early last year to spite #3. She used to own #3 and lost it due to unscrupulous business practices of #3's owners (and tax issues). She does DJ on Fri (sometimes on Thurs), does local bands (classic rock, blues) on Sat and has a Blues Jam on Sundays that attracts some of the best local musicians. She also serves good food (steaks, mondo burgers, etc). Word has it she may be in some financial straits, but she does well especially on the Blues night.

5) The place a couple of blocks down is pretty close to the same kind of bar I work at. They used to do karaoke on Mon and Thurs, and after seeing my success went to Wed and Fri to rival me. They've since dropped Wed, and seem to be doing okay on Fri. They do trivia on Tues. Food is typical. Not doing particularly well in all.

6) Eagles and Legion. These are member only, but do have karaoke and cheese ball hootnany bands.

Those that are doing well in town found something the others weren't doing and capitalized on it. Those that aren't doing so well are the copy cats.

Again, casinos allow smoking inside, they have good drinks usually on the inexpensive side, and they have gambling. Snoqualmie has a great entertainment line-up though I have heard food is on the expensive side. These places survive because they cater to the magic 3 addictions: Cigs, booze, and gambling. Normal bars with no smoking, not as many chairs (limited capacities) and normal priced drinks I think are having a much harder time.

Some of the things they resort to: Guitar hero or the other band video game, Wii bowling (people love it), trivia nights, karaoke of course, and bands on weekends. They are limited in what they can offer and, at least in this area, bands are paid less and less and are almost in a pay-to-play situation, even in downtown Seattle (which was previously one of the greatest music cities in the country).

I'm with Bill about the young people - our Mon night show is a young people's place. They can stay up on a Monday night until 2 and get home, sleep for a couple of hours, and go to work 6 a.m. Many are totally accustomed to not smoking indoors. They have had the don't drink and drive mentality hammered into their heads for years already...and they do take cabs or have a designated driver.

Not sure how the next couple of years are going to go for bars - people WILL go out and spend a few bucks and relax and enjoy themselves and allow themselves to forget about their worries but there is a limit to that money, too, with the huge job losses in this area (Starbucks, Microsoft, WaMu, Boeing).

You guys are nailing it. Hadn't thought about the generational thing but we are at an older bar that can't see past its glory days of anything goes. Now it seems they would rather resent the new breed rather than attract them and they may go down fighting. And smoking. The more they lose money, the less they want to spend money trying new things. It becomes a cycle.

Even with bad economic times, it is interesting that some bars still don't follow the basics of running a sound business. The most stable place I know has had the same bartender for I'm guessing at least 10 years. Unfortunately they quit having karaoke because it was causing problems--issues between the kj and bartenders. I asked the bartender if he thought they'd bring back karaoke and he told me it brought in more money but created too much of a headache for him. The extra money wasn't worth it. If only he'd had the right kj to start with... And then there are the places that go through bartenders every 8 months...or less. These places have given up on the long term, make poor hiring decisions, and the established clientele has left (or been driven off).

I notice Snoqualmie Casino has rockaraoke.

My observation is the municipality that bans smoking is hurt if there is one allowing it nearby. This has been my observation at my venue and others in the municipality that went smoke free. There are plenty of economic studies that point to that and it's being used to drive that as state law here in Texas. I find it funny that the primary reason for a state law is to level the playing field.

I don't smoke, and I prefer smoke-free singing holes. However I like letting the owner of the establishment decide. I can vote with my feet just line anyone who leaves a bad show

In my home bar, I've had the same bartender since day 1. We consider ourselves a team. I could make more, draw bigger crowds elsewhere, but at what expense.

This bartender likes to sing and the regulars like that she's a part of the show. She let's me rib her on the mic and is very attentive to my needs. Likewise, I follow her lead when she needs control of the bar.

She had a good following of regulars because she's very consistent and friendly. She's older (38), and knows the game.

Most young bartenders still think that everyone comes to 'their' bar because of them. This kind of attitude can easily cause tension with a KJ. It's not a secret that my two nights at this bar are probably two of the top five money nights of all the bars in town. It's not because of the bartender, it's because of the entertainment. Understanding this from a bartender's perspective makes life a lot easier and less of a headache. Young bartenders generally try and make the bar the hangout for their friends and take too much stock in the opinions of said friends, which causes a lot of push and pull and in the end, instability.

I've also found that bartenders that don't care for, or participate in karaoke programs can have a negative impact because they simply don't care about what it takes to put on a good show. I had one that was #2 at my home bar, but isn't there anymore. Thank Gawd!!!!!! She could light the fire drama at the drop of a hat without concern.

Bartenders have followings just like us KJs do!!! Good ones bring 'em in, and bad one's drive 'em out.

Hey I'm a rebel from the 60's & 70's and I accept changes as long as they are for the good.

Lone Wolf

Me, too, but I get their point about the younger crowds being used to non-smoking and DUI laws. But I got used to the non-smoking laws REAL fast.

Also think the concept of finding a niche was interesting. Many bars try to be all things and it is difficult to get karaoke going there. Where we are now, people have to either get up or duck their heads so that people can take a pool shot. The dance floor is like a postage stamp. Some of us were just remembering when bars had huge dance floors and a stage and catered to live music or karaoke. Now many have filled those spaces with pool tables, slot machines, etc. and the karaoke is stuffed in with the monitor positioned so that the singer faces the wall instead of the audience. Or small bars try to have karaoke when their capacity couldn't possibly support a salary.

The bar tender is also a big factor. We had one where our karaoke night was her "Friday" and she wanted to close early and shooed people out when we still had people signed up to sing. Or you get the ones that give the store away so your bottom line doesn't look good.

Double post. Fell for the web page expired refresh thing. And I've been so careful lately.

I would hope so because I met today with a prospective bar for my services.

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