Karaoke Forums

Mckyj, I'm not sure why you're trying to split hairs, nor am I sure which ones they are that you're trying to split!

Suffice it to say, that at my shows, they are coming for the karaoke, the comraderie, the singers and the singing, and on and on.
I could continue to list, but what's the point?

What point, exactly, are you trying to make?

I'm sharing MY experience with MY shows in MY area and you're trying to tell me I'm wrong.
But about what?
And why?
You haven't been to my shows so you can't say what's at play here.
I can.
I've been in the bar business in one form or another for over 20 years.
I certainly don't lack experience in it.
I KNOW the business, particularly in this area.
Please don't try to tell me I'm wrong without defining exactly what I'm wrong about and without actually knowing what you're talking about.
What works for you works for you, and that's great. I'm happy for you. But it might not be the same for me or anyone else.
Please remember that.

BruceFanForLife said:

Whoa there fella!

It is my opinion that this is a case of the confusion that (from a KJ's point of view) that "karaoke in the clubs is about singing." It is not, it's about making money and if you only have (even) 5 singers in your rotation, you will be doomed as far as the gig is concerned eventually anyway.

Yes, "That extrapolates to each singer singing 15 songs in a 5 hour show. As a singer, that is a fun night out ..."

I'm sure it does, but now let's look at it from the economic point of view:

Club pays $150/night ($30/hour) for a 5 hour show.

Each singer basically sings for a total of an entire hour... 5 singers, 5 hours....

That means the club has spent $30 on each singer to hear them sing....

Does each of these singers have MORE than a $30 tab? Because even if it's exactly $30 each, the club is still losing money and eventually the KJ will be out the door.

To those that argue that $30 tab each is a breakeven point: It is not and here's why;
(1) KJ gets $150/night
(2) each singer has a $30 tab and tips nicely
(3) Server delivers orders of drinks and food and keeps the tips
(4) Club gets $150
(5) Club hands $150 to KJ
(6) Nothing left for club, nothing to buy beer or food to sell to patrons, nothing to pay electric bill, insurance, cleaning, other staff etc.
(7) Club makes virtually nothing off 5 singers singing 15 songs per night... not a "fun night" for the club.

I think that most people make a conscious decision as to where they are going to hang out for the night. If they decide to spend their evening at a karaoke bar, they understand that they will be listening to people sing all night. Many of the KJ's think that it's okay to pacify these non-singers by playing canned music when the rotation is small. How do the same KJ's feel about playing the same amount of canned music if there are 15-20 singers in the rotation? If canned music is bad when there are many singers, how can it be a good thing when there are just a few singers. Filler music is either good or bad. I don't think it can be both. If you only have 5 singers that sing poorly coming to your show, you may never have successful gigs. These less than stellar singers do have the ability to make listeners go home early. On the other hand, 5 talented singers have the ability to entertain the listening crowd and maybe get them to bring more listeners in the future. If your filler music causes those 5 talented singer to go somewhere else where there is NO FILLER MUSIC, then your show will have nothing to keep the listeners there and those listeners will certainly not be telling their friends about the great karaoke show where no one sings but they play great filler music. If I were going out with friends for dinner and entertainment and wanted to hear a DJ play music, I wouldn't suggest going to a Karaoke Bar. However, being a singer myself, I would try to get my friends to all meet at a karaoke Bar that would allow us to sing as often as possible. If the KJ turned into a DJ every half hour, I would try to get my friends to leave and go elsewhere. I am both a singer and a listener and I would rather listen to the worst singer in the world than listen to filler music. Listening to that terrible singer gets me and everyone else closer to singing AGAIN. Listening to filler music just wastes minutes of our lives. I can listen to filler music at home if I'm in the mood to hear it. I go to a karaoke bar to hear other people sing LIVE. I'd rather hear Joe Blow sing Sweet Caroline than hear Neil Diamond sing it....un
less I am at a Neil Diamond concert.

Well he could have -- I should have put 3 of us including host SINGING... - because after we left there were no singers left.

but by the same token, Bruce, I've had singers leave if the rotation is too small! Many aren't the serious singers like you are, and only have a handful of songs. By the time an hour or two is gone, they're DONE!

ONE filler song in such conditions would be when I am running around the bar, talking to the singers, asking them where they're from, what kinds of music they like, any new songs they'd like to try... cause in a night like that, hey, it's great to try new songs.... no worries about embarrassing yourself by trying a song you wanted to try and not getting it done just right.

And as singers join up, then not only would I drop out of the rotation, but so too would the filler... but I'd be wanting to entertain the whole bar, since ONLY three singers can't do that!

I'd do two fers, then a filler song at the end of the rotation, sing one myself and let the singers back up!

I would do the same thing. If there are more people there that actually really enjoy the dance music part, I might even do 2 songs in between, just to keep them happy.

Ollie, great story!

I can understand you doing twofers if the rotation is small but what function does that one filler song provide. Why not just go back to the top of the rotation ?

Well, in regards to the OP there are non-singers at his place that have a great time just hanging out there. At least as far as I understood. So why not catering to them too at the end of the rotation?

If it is announced as Karaoke, why not? I would...

I am splitting the same hair you started when I said you had to attract non-singers, and you contradicted me and said you had to attract "spenders". You talk like there is a difference, yet when pressed you can't define the difference or state how to attract these mythical "spenders".
...............
My point is that you can't try to analyze what singers spend and get anywhere. What the singers spend, per se, is not what makes a show. It is what they attract.

Ah-HAAAAA! Maybe this is a semantics issue. Some here continually refer to 'KARAOKE BAR.' Is a 'KARAOKE BAR' different than a "BAR THAT HAS KARAOKE?"

It's advertised as a DISCO for dancing, but some non-dancer wants to sing anyway.....just like when a non-singer wants a KJ to play some dance filler music so she can get her groove on at a karaoke show.

Well, I'll tell you what my point was, which you apparently either completely missed or chose to ignore.
So let me try again.
My point was that you shouldn't be trying to define whether singers or non singers spend more.
It really doesn't matter.
Bottom line is you want them ALL to spend, regardless of whether they sing or not.

Defining them in to spending groups on the basis of singing really is pointless and an effort in futility, as it will vary from venue to venue, and even from day to day at times.